I Get a Chatban but the person that flames me doesn't?

WindsOfDeath·Dec 29, 2018·2 votes·2,571 views

Game 1 In-Game WindsOfDeath: does he? WindsOfDeath: idk WindsOfDeath: maybe ult? WindsOfDeath: want a tent? WindsOfDeath: mid is over WindsOfDeath: i got camped WindsOfDeath: your elo must be trash then WindsOfDeath: ganked 3 times fml WindsOfDeath: im melee WindsOfDeath: how do i cs? WindsOfDeath: how do i have unlimited wards? WindsOfDeath: 1 kill allows your to trash talk :( WindsOfDeath: game isn't about kill kid WindsOfDeath: its about towers WindsOfDeath: ping missing please WindsOfDeath: you no ping? WindsOfDeath: he "solo" lol WindsOfDeath: are you still bronze? WindsOfDeath: yeah im shit WindsOfDeath: but i got to this elo because of objectives WindsOfDeath: im not bitchibng on my teammates tho WindsOfDeath: banned for what? WindsOfDeath: stop inting WindsOfDeath: check forums later ;) WindsOfDeath: no screenshots of you being toxic WindsOfDeath: my 17th person banned ;) WindsOfDeath: your literally calling me a fucking loser WindsOfDeath: for trying to enjoy a game WindsOfDeath: keep up that attitude WindsOfDeath: well nice 1 v 5 WindsOfDeath: voli solo op WindsOfDeath: nvm WindsOfDeath: report cait toxic Post-Game WindsOfDeath: we won because i pushed instead of focusing on kills WindsOfDeath: you were toxic nonstop WindsOfDeath: bitching about every thing i do WindsOfDeath: virtually griefing this game for me WindsOfDeath: actually unplayable with easily-tilted people like you WindsOfDeath: not my fauly jgl was noon existant WindsOfDeath: was trying to have fun you ambitious noob

Ok so when it comes to insults I'm not very good at that, but I think something this minor doesn't deserve a chat ban and even worse is that the person who was obviously provoking me into being toxic was actually toxic and using foul(er) language than me, but he didn't receive a chat ban. Yeah during game I did feed, but I died without the intent of inting which led to teammates flaming and "Provoking me" with comments like "I hope you get banned loser"

29 Comments

RandomIsHereDec 29, 20183 votes

Hey

but he didn't receive a chat ban.

You don't know about that. Feedback aren't systematic, others can be punished without you knowing anything.

WindsOfDeathDec 29, 20183 votes

Well I suppose but I've reported some extreme toxic players say crap like go kill your self,but never received an instant feedback notification and something like kill your self is punish-worthy. In fact telling someone to kill them self is an act that has been criminalized by some states which shows how severe the problem is but people are free of punishment. Forget my stupid chat ban I just think that the feedback system requires extreme improvement

RandomIsHereDec 29, 20181 votes

As said in this article ( https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player )

Sometimes (but not always) you will be notified when a player you reported is penalized. The lack of a notification does not mean there was no penalty.

Giving a systematic feedback isn't possible for private data reasons, and it would also cause negative feelings about it. Here, the guy you reported "may have been punished". You're not sure about it. Imagine if the feedback was systematic and you didn't received one. Imagine how unpleasant, how unfair you would feel about it. Are you sure this is better than the actual system now ?

rujitraDec 29, 20182 votes

It's legal to do that in the US, and in fact it's legal in the US to release punishments publicly. Riot would have to update their privacy policy if they chose to do this, and they'd run afoul of EU laws. Given that countries aren't locked to specific regions, they'd have to finagle it a lot to get it to work, but it is possible.

The reason Riot doesn't send it every time someone's punished is because it is designed as a "hey, thanks for the help, your reports aren't unnoticed" every once in a while. It's not designed as a "look who you got punished!!!!!!!" notice.

RandomIsHereDec 29, 20181 votes

Legal terms would be a little problem with some countries, and yeah, the instant feedback isn't designed to "shame" the opponent/ally who got punished, but to show that the system works.

ranyhin2Dec 29, 20183 votes

Welcome to League. The game is run by snowflakes who will ban you for calling someone an idiot once (happened to me) and doesn't ban uber-toxic players regularly, or players that troll you by intentionally feeding. Their system is completely 100% flawed, and it obviously doesn't work either as League is one of the most toxic communities out there. I have zero faith in their system and I doubt it will change as they seem to be incredibly incompetent.

rujitraDec 29, 20183 votes

Calling someone an idiot once in one game does not get you banned. PERIOD. Full stop. End of discussion. That is a blatant lie.

As someone told you before, you were not banned for "calling someone an idiot once". You were punished because:

{quoted}

What you got banned for was flaming from start to finish in truly pathetic fashion. Pretty high bar, really.

You dont get keyword banned, this is not bloody club penguin. Punishments are for intent, and your intent was harassment.

Please do not spread misinformation on the boards - it doesn't help anything and the Universal Rules prohibit it - I'd hate to see the moderators edit or remove your posts because of it.

Apricot JamsDec 29, 20182 votes

Give me a break. You think a robot can pick up on intent? It picks up on key words humans program into it. That's it. Your faith in AI of misplaced. People harass others in league all the time who know the system and simply avoid key words. They feed and ks and lie and riots super robot has no clue. The only people who get punished are people who don't understand the system. That's totally fair right? The next thing ur gonna say is that they're stupid so they deserve it lol

insomniacjezzDec 29, 20183 votes

To be fair, I really wouldn’t want to be playing the game with someone who uses words like “snowflake” unironically. And I seriosuly doubt you were punished for only calling someone an idiot once.

No system is perfect, but I’m curious what you’d suggest as a replacement to this “100% flawed” system?

Apricot JamsDec 29, 20182 votes

I don't know but riot definitely has enough money to figure it out, and they don't. Instead they just tweak it to keep the money flowing in.

FatesightDec 29, 20181 votes

^This. It's not the players' duty to figure out how to fix Riot's ridiculous system. It's Riot's duty to improve their system so it can effectively deal with trolls. People play League to have fun, not to get trolled. And that means that while getting trolled is treated as an expected and normal part of the League experience, more and more people will decide that it's not an experience they want to have.

Apricot JamsDec 29, 20182 votes

Truth. And toxic people continue to run rampant with zero repercussion simply because they know the system. They ban champs your declare, feed on propose and simply ruin other people's games all the time, but riots genius robot is perfect and never makes mistakes right? LoL

HotarµDec 29, 20182 votes

Firstly, there's no consistent feedback report when another player is successfully punished. You'll never know for sure if the person you're reporting got punished, so try not to focus on that too much.

Secondly, a good portion of your chat log was very toxic.

WindsOfDeath: are you still bronze? WindsOfDeath: yeah im shit WindsOfDeath: but i got to this elo because of objectives WindsOfDeath: banned for what? WindsOfDeath: stop inting WindsOfDeath: check forums later ;) WindsOfDeath: no screenshots of you being toxic WindsOfDeath: my 17th person banned ;) WindsOfDeath: your literally calling me a fucking loser WindsOfDeath: report cait toxic

There's a lot to unpack here, so I'll try to make it as clear as possible.

1 - Asking for reports does nothing to benefit your situation. Not only is it not constructive, but asking for reports has been officially proven to not improve the likelihood of punishments being given. There is no reason to do it.

2 - Rank shaming is generally not acceptable. Just because someone is a lower rank doesn't mean you can talk down to them. It's seen as incredibly negative and also doesn't add anything to help your situation.

3 - You're egging this person on by saying you'll report them and that you're going to post this on the forums for the community see. Not only is posting something like that against the rules on the forums, but again, it doesn't facilitate good discussion and is generally toxic. There's no need for that kind of behavior.

If someone is being toxic to you, mute them and move on. Report them at the end of the game or file a support ticket, but by no means are you allowed to stoop to their level and skirt by with no punishments. Context doesn't matter in this scenario as you have 3 other teammates and a game to be focusing on. Time spent retaliating is time taken away from the game at hand.

On the bright side, it's only a 10 game chat restriction. You're far from having your account put at risk. Let this be a lesson to be the bigger person in the future and promote positive behavior.

Good luck, I know you can do it.

WindsOfDeathDec 29, 20181 votes

Just a FYI I wasn't intended to rank shame it was actually a rhetorical question and I meant it as in rank mentality

Apricot JamsDec 29, 20182 votes

They don't care. All riot does is look at one sided chat logs and blame you instead of the person who instigated. In real life, the person who instigated gets a more severe punishment, but not in league! Chat is a game too and the most truly toxic people know how to flame without getting caught because they know the system, while people like me and you get accounts banned because we reply back to the trolls. Seems legit.

Kei143Dec 29, 20181 votes

Let's have you understand the behavioral system a bit more. Think of it like a health bar (or tension meter) in music games. When you hit the note at an off beat, your tension meter increases. When you completely miss a note, the meter increases by alot. When you hit the note at perfect timings, it reduces the meter.

Riot's behavior system works the same way, as in we all have a toxicity meter attached to our accounts. When players are mildly toxic, it goes up a tad. When people use hate speech, it pretty much fills up the meter.

It is possible for playerA to get punished and playerB not to, even though playerB was waaayyyyy more toxic . Let's say playerA started the game with the toxicity meter at 95% and playerB's at 35%. Ingame, playerB said some pretty nasty shit and playerA responds with some shit as well. After the game, playerA gains 10% toxicity and playerB gains 50%. Now playerA is at 105% toxicity and gets punished, whereas playerB is at 85%, and not punished in that specific game, even though playerB was found to be 5x more toxic than playerA in that game.

Apricot JamsDec 29, 20182 votes

Pretty stupid way to hand out punishments

Kei143Dec 29, 20181 votes

Let's have a discussion and understand that statement a bit more deeply.

Why would you think it's a stupid way to hand out punishments?

Do you think this method is fair / not fair?

What are the changes / direction you want the system to take instead?

Apricot JamsDec 29, 20182 votes

Because people who understand the system can still be extremely toxic (feeding, stealing kills, lying, etc.) and simply avoid words or phrases riots robot looks for. It's pretty easy actually. There's plenty of ways to troll and ruin peoples day without typing. Riot doesn't conduct in depth reviews and only looks at one sided chat logs, pointing at words and NEVER at actions.

The whole system is discipline theater. Makes it look like they're doing something when in reality all their patches do is make them more money.

Kei143Dec 29, 20182 votes

But this just tells me that you still are operating under the premise on how you think the system works, not how it really works.

The things you mentioned, people don't get away with. It might take some time, but the system will still catch them.

Apricot JamsDec 29, 20181 votes

Yeah they do. I see it all the time and have been seeing it since the beginning. If their system worked I wouldn't be regularly seeing this kind of behavior.

Kei143Dec 29, 20181 votes

It's more like because Riot never has good clarity and transparency on the system, so people assume how it works and what they can get away with.

They think they can get away with it, but eventually the system catches up to toxics.

What we need is a real time Monthly Report Cards and increase the visibility of education on how the behavioral system works, so people stop assuming how things work.

Apricot JamsDec 30, 20181 votes

Yea that would definitely be nice but the people who game the discipline system and are toxic dicks without being caught is still the biggest problem imho because that's the most tilting part of the game.

Kei143Dec 30, 20181 votes

There's not that many of those out there that can properly game the system.

Most just think they can get around it, but fail. In your examples, kill steals is not a punishable offense, lying is punished as verbal harassment regardless how they feel they are good at lying, feeding itself is not punishable as it depends on intent.

The players who intentional feeding smartly can be really hard to detect, even with the human eye. Even if Riot has tonnes of play patterns to review, a smart inter is pretty much indistinguishable from a bad player, and I don't believe there are enough people out there that are skilled enough to do that.

Apricot JamsDec 30, 20181 votes

I play on NA and I encounter them weekly if not daily. If the system actually worked I shouldn't be seeing them this frequently. My problem isn't that Im toxic to normal people, it's that I'm toxic to inting, griefing ass hats who INTENTIONALLY ruin peoples day for fun or out of boredom, and if you as a thinking, breathing, living human really think I deserve equal punishment to someone like that simply for calling them out on they're heinous behavior, then I have nothing more to say to you because we fundamentally disagree on what it means to be a good person.

Kei143Dec 30, 20181 votes

There probably is a fundamental difference in definition of inting in our books.

In the middle of the year, I was taking behavioral notes of every game I was playing (mind you, I played 10-12 games a week) and I charted 2 inters and 1 troll in 252 games across all game modes.

Now that its preseason and the holiday season, I've reduced the amount of games I play, but I really don't see a dramatic increase for inters and griefers. Infact, I don't remember any recent inters / griefers in my games.

Apricot JamsDec 30, 20181 votes

Well then there must be something about riots match making system that they don't disclose because at least 1 out of 3 games I play has some titled jerk who doesn't care about their team winning and just throws the game out of emotionality or boredom or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if people who spend more money or work at riot have the privilege of a better queue.

Also I've noticed if I slip once in chat with even a friendly criticism like "go in sooner" (without swearing or even actually insulting), or if I engage in playful banter with the enemy laner, all the sudden it becomes almost every game I'm queud up with jerks.

Maybe it's time for me to document what I'm seeing so you riot people actually understand what the general public is going through. Maybe I'll release a YouTube series exposing riots self proclaimed "perfect" system. I guarantee it'll be downvotted to hell by the riotter mob in 2 seconds the same way all my comments on here are instantly down voted, misunderstood and my arguments misrepresented. Y'all are literally like a gang.

Kei143Dec 30, 20181 votes

GL with all of that. I'm personally interested in the results to see how it differs from my point of view. Am I just too lenient with my assessment of other people? I'm hoping you would record the games so I can see the differences between gameplay behavior as well.

Btw, I've spent $0 on Riot so far and I wished I can work in Riot so I can fanboi Riot Tantram.

Apricot JamsDec 30, 20181 votes

You're not too lenient. You're just a casual gamer while Im competitive and obsessed with truth, improvement and genuinely making the game better for both casual gamers and competitive gamers alike, not just those who fall in line with riots profit driven system.

I'm definitely going to do this. Now my games will have a purpose. I used to stream so I'll use obs to record the games and ill cut together videos so others can understand exactly what I'm going through.