I feel like riot doesn't give a shit

The Öutcast·Oct 4, 2017·13 votes·1,583 views

Who cares if the community is toxic and the game isn't balanced or fair, people will still play league.

This seems to be Riot's attitude, especially when it comes to reporting, bans, and ranked. I really have little evidence to the contrary

In ranked, if you do well and you lose, you get punished. If you do very very poorly and you win, you're rewarded. Ranked should be based on skill, but it's not, and it only encourages people to buy accounts they haven't earned and ruin games for other people.

In games in general, people can harass the enemy in all chat because so long as it doesn't have any swear words or demeaning language, they can type LOL or HAHAHAHAHAHAHA if they see you mess up something, and it's demoralizing. I can't effectively report it because what do I say? They were being rude in game? Where's the evidence to show for it? These people who antagonize players in game SHOULD be banned, but never will be, and it aggravates me to no end.

Tl;DR Riot doesn't give a shit about the average player, they never have, they never will.

35 Comments

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20177 votes

Honestly, I'd love to have a nice long civil discussion with any rioter in the department of player behavior moderation, because frankly, I do feel like most of the time, good people get downvoted and go unheard 99.9% of the time.

I feel like Riot has good people working for them, but I don't think that Riot as a whole is a good company that cares about the average player.

Carl PapaNov 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Öutcast,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hhHq9dGZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-04T05:00:55.891+0000)

Honestly, I'd love to have a nice long civil discussion with any rioter in the department of player behavior moderation, because frankly, I do feel like most of the time, good people get downvoted and go unheard 99.9% of the time.

I feel like Riot has good people working for them, but I don't think that Riot as a whole is a good company that cares about the average player.

Yeah Riot cares about the higher ELO, mid Diamond to Challenger, that's the people who bring them money. On streams, on worlds championships... they don't realize though that playing vs the same 160 people in your region that are in your ELO is not the same as having to bare a lost promo while you're 7/2/4 and your mid is 0/12/3 Yasuo... :) Oh no, we're ment to zip it, and not react... Meanwhile this 0/12 snowflake will go ruin another fellow good players promo :)

ChermorgOct 4, 20174 votes

I recommend you review these boards. Seriously. Just take 30 minutes or so, go through the most recent 50 posts, skim their chat logs.

You'll find many people get punished for mild/passive toxicity. It's not just cursing. It's not just outright flaming, but the kind of demoralizing negative behaviors you describe are punished.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I recommend you review these boards. Seriously. Just take 30 minutes or so, go through the most recent 50 posts, skim their chat logs.

You'll find many people get punished for mild/passive toxicity. It's not just cursing. It's not just outright flaming, but the kind of demoralizing negative behaviors you describe are punished.

Yet, somehow it's still super prevalent, because there's no fear of being punished when it comes to those who do it.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I recommend you review these boards. Seriously. Just take 30 minutes or so, go through the most recent 50 posts, skim their chat logs.

You'll find many people get punished for mild/passive toxicity. It's not just cursing. It's not just outright flaming, but the kind of demoralizing negative behaviors you describe are punished.

NOBODY gets banned for saying HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, or LOLOLOL, or LMAO after seeing their enemy not succeed on a play. Yet they know it has the possibility of tilting their enemy. By that nature, it ruins the game for the opposing player, but it's not punishable.

ChermorgOct 4, 20173 votes

Nobody will get banned for saying that once. Saying it once is trash talking and mild competitive trash talk is acceptable in limited quantities.

If they're saying it frequently and across games, then that type of passive aggressive bragging/rudeness is punishable - the same as it is considered mild toxicity to say "gg ez".

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Nobody will get banned for saying that once. Saying it once is trash talking and mild competitive trash talk is acceptable in limited quantities.

If they're saying it frequently and across games, then that type of passive aggressive bragging/rudeness is punishable - the same as it is considered mild toxicity to say "gg ez".

Translation: It's ok if they ruin 4 or 5 games for people, but they better not reach the number 10, then they'll be in trouble.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Nobody will get banned for saying that once. Saying it once is trash talking and mild competitive trash talk is acceptable in limited quantities.

If they're saying it frequently and across games, then that type of passive aggressive bragging/rudeness is punishable - the same as it is considered mild toxicity to say "gg ez".

Seriously, allow me to pose a question to you.

Is it ok to murder 4 or 5 people so long as it's less than 10?

Hyperbole, but the point is the same. It's wrong to ruin ANY game, so saying "it's acceptable to trash talk in limited amounts" is just like advocating for murdering 4 or 5 people so long as it's less than 10.

ChermorgOct 4, 20172 votes

You can’t honestly be advocating for that - you may as well remove chat altogether. It’s a competitive game. Look at any football game, players cheer and dance when they get a touchdown. Likewise, players in League are permitted to express their happiness at making a good play, as long as it’s not harassment.

Not everything is negative, sometimes you just have to deal with the very mild trash talk.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20173 votes

{quoted}

You can’t honestly be advocating for that - you may as well remove chat altogether. It’s a competitive game. Look at any football game, players cheer and dance when they get a touchdown. Likewise, players in League are permitted to express their happiness at making a good play, as long as it’s not harassment.

Not everything is negative, sometimes you just have to deal with the very mild trash talk.

You do realize that enjoying yourself at another person's expense is against the summoners code (section 4 specifically, surprised you don't know this as a blue name in the boards), and there are lots of people who circumvent the system by saying things that won't get picked up by the automatic report system, that you'd have to understand in the context of the game. They know they'll get away with ruining games for other people. The fact that you're trying to justify it makes it even worse.

ChermorgOct 4, 20172 votes

There comes a time that you can't claim that anymore. By your logic, winning a game and being bad would be punishable, as they ruin the game for someone.

Simple trash talk if uncommon and not overbearing will not generally be punished.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

There comes a time that you can't claim that anymore. By your logic, winning a game and being bad would be punishable, as they ruin the game for someone.

Simple trash talk if uncommon and not overbearing will not generally be punished.

If your enemy messes up a play and you say "lol that was bad" in all chat, that's harassment, that's not celebrating. Demeaning language towards specific events in the game that can't be looked at in chat post game when a report is made is what makes this such an issue. Why do you feel so strongly about minimizing how much of an issue it is?

ChermorgOct 4, 20172 votes

Definition of harassment from the Oxford English Dictionary:

Aggressive pressure or intimidation.

Telling someone once that their play was bad is a) not aggressive, and b) not pressure. One could argue that it's c) intimidation, but for it to be intimidation it should be consistent use of those types of phrases.

One use of "lol that was bad" to anyone in League will generally not warrant a punishment, and shouldn't. I'm minimizing how much of an issue this is because it's a non issue. When you go to a sporting event, you see players high five each other, jeer the enemy team, make gestures at the enemy team, etc when they score/make a good play. As the tip states, competitive BSing is allowed. This is a competitive game (or sport), a healthy amount of competition is encouraged.

Again, saying it once or twice rarely is different than harassing someone with it all game. Similarly to "ggez" and "report x" or "x is inting" etc. Once instance of any of those won't usually get a punishment. Using those phrases to harass/demean others, will.

I don't want to have to put it this way, but to be quite honest, if you have a problem being told a play you made is bad in a way that isn't inherently negative/toxic, then don't play a competitive game.

LastManOnEarthOct 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You can’t honestly be advocating for that - you may as well remove chat altogether. It’s a competitive game. Look at any football game, players cheer and dance when they get a touchdown. Likewise, players in League are permitted to express their happiness at making a good play, as long as it’s not harassment.

Not everything is negative, sometimes you just have to deal with the very mild trash talk.

No no no no no, don't remove chat. Just make it like that penguin game and everyone will be happy. Not playing league that is

TrippeeOct 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Nobody will get banned for saying that once. Saying it once is trash talking and mild competitive trash talk is acceptable in limited quantities.

If they're saying it frequently and across games, then that type of passive aggressive bragging/rudeness is punishable - the same as it is considered mild toxicity to say "gg ez".

Ive read reports of people getting perma banned for constant gg ez comments

ChermorgOct 4, 20173 votes

If it's constant, nonstop, multiple times a game, most if not all games, then yes, that could warrant a punishment on its own.

If it's once or twice a game and not every game they do it, then probably not.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If it's constant, nonstop, multiple times a game, most if not all games, then yes, that could warrant a punishment on its own.

If it's once or twice a game and not every game they do it, then probably not.

Again, back to the hyperbole, so long as they murder 1 or 2 people, it's ok, but they better not murder 10, or they'll be in trouble.

ChermorgOct 4, 20173 votes

In your analogy, murder is hate speech, and this milder toxicity is similar to speeding 2 miles over the limit. You won't actually get a ticket for the second in most cases unless it's constant and over period of time.

Hate speech and extreme toxicity (murder) is punished very severely on the first occurrence, and permanently on the second occurrence.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

In your analogy, murder is hate speech, and this milder toxicity is similar to speeding 2 miles over the limit. You won't actually get a ticket for the second in most cases unless it's constant and over period of time.

Hate speech and extreme toxicity (murder) is punished very severely on the first occurrence, and permanently on the second occurrence.

Allow me to also define hyperbole for you, from the oxford dictionary

Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

ChermorgOct 4, 20173 votes

If you say it's a hyperbole, you're admitting it's not relevant to the discussion, and there's no reason to keep bringing it up, because it's not the same.

If you're trying to use it as an analogy, I told you why it's wrong. I assumed you were trying to use it as an analogy, because I assumed you'd keep the discussion on the topic and not try and derail it with bringing up an irrelevant hyperbole that you knew didn't apply.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If you say it's a hyperbole, you're admitting it's not relevant to the discussion, and there's no reason to keep bringing it up, because it's not the same.

If you're trying to use it as an analogy, I told you why it's wrong.

hyperbole is meant to illustrate a point, you're supposed to take it in stride of argument, and not literally. Now at this point you're trying to detract from the main point since you don't actually have an effective counter to any of my arguments (especially since Riot's supposed stance on this agrees with mine)

notMineskiexoNov 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Öutcast,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hhHq9dGZ,comment-id=000100010000000200000000,timestamp=2017-10-04T17:33:14.640+0000)

Again, back to the hyperbole, so long as they murder 1 or 2 people, it's ok, but they better not murder 10, or they'll be in trouble.

I mean serial killers usually get away with their first 2 kills

Telephone BoothOct 5, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Öutcast,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hhHq9dGZ,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-04T04:54:48.948+0000)

NOBODY gets banned for saying HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, or LOLOLOL, or LMAO after seeing their enemy not succeed on a play. Yet they know it has the possibility of tilting their enemy. By that nature, it ruins the game for the opposing player, but it's not punishable.

Dude if you want people to be punished for saying LOL at an LoL-worthy, fail of play, then maybe you just need to lighten up a little. Maybe you're taking this game a little too seriously and letting your insecurities get the best of you, and it's not on Riot at all. I have no problems with toxicity. It's so easy to ignore. If you engage with people who are toxic, you're gonna see toxicity more often. I don't know what to tell ya... your problems with Riot seem petty, and reaks with a sense of entitlement. Like Riots job is to protect you from the harsh ways of people online. Just chill out man. Stop taking yourself so seriously. Sorry for the condescending tone, I just don't know what I could say to really help you, other than realizing maybe you're just being too sensitive and expecting someone else to protect your feelings. Everyone in the world has every right to offend you.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20173 votes

So long as you circumvent the system effectively, you can be as toxic as you want, and Riot is ok with it, because they don't care about fixing the system.

bànOct 4, 20172 votes

The only people who should be banned are people who grief, troll build (stacking tears, mobi's etc) and AFK's. I don't care if you have a bad connection or toaster, don't play the game then. 4v5's create toxic environments. "But what about flamers!" Wow, someone is verbally abusing me in chat? Oh look the mute button. Why do people get banned for verbal abuse when there's a mute button? Might as well take out chat all together.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The only people who should be banned are people who grief, troll build (stacking tears, mobi's etc) and AFK's. I don't care if you have a bad connection or toaster, don't play the game then. 4v5's create toxic environments. "But what about flamers!" Wow, someone is verbally abusing me in chat? Oh look the mute button. Why do people get banned for verbal abuse when there's a mute button? Might as well take out chat all together.

Please read the summoner's code

bànOct 4, 20172 votes

Ive read it. Ive been playing since S1. The summoners code is dead.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Ive read it. Ive been playing since S1. The summoners code is dead.

Case in point, Chermorg

DtimeDOct 4, 20172 votes

Yo this guy is the most triggered snowflake I've ever seen. gg ez

Hèntaî Oct 4, 20171 votes

Those people that encourage it are just as bad.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20171 votes

There's a vast difference between relief or happiness that a play succeeded and gloating that your enemy failed, the attitudes are extremely different, and you of all people should know this.

What I'm trying to bring up is that Riot allows the second set of people to go free because they don't say anything super inflammatory even though it does ruin the player experience.

The ÖutcastOct 4, 20171 votes

Since you seem to be unfamiliar with Riot's official stance.

ENJOY YOURSELF, BUT NOT AT ANYONE ELSE'S EXPENSE

“Short is the joy that guilty pleasure brings.” -Euripides

Making games is our business, so it should come as no surprise that we want you to have a lot of fun. We want you to get excited, to have tension-filled moments, and to celebrate your success. This doesn’t mean that we’re okay with you ruining anybody else’s day.

Remember, taking a jab at your friend in the middle of the game is a lot different than making a glib remark at a complete stranger. Someone who is unfamiliar with what you consider playful may take your comment as an attack and react unfavorably. If two players on a team start fighting, good communication and teamwork become nearly impossible. Once communication breaks down, the likelihood of victory is drastically diminished. It isn’t uncommon for simple, good natured teasing to spiral out of control into a loss, so do yourself a favor and don’t run the risk of sabotaging your own success.

Also, since you want to use dictionary definitions, The Oxford definition of Glib means

(of words or a speaker) fluent but insincere and shallow.

Telephone BoothOct 5, 20171 votes

Yeah, people fucking suck huh?

TrueDjinnOct 7, 20171 votes

well to be honest people don't care anymore about the game even in ranked,trolls are getting away with no punishment cause they dont talk in chat,riot knows this but the don't care about them,they want to see if your gonna be toxic to them and flame them,basically “trolls” exhibit one kind of empathy, coupling it with psychopathy ultimately makes them nasty, which includes a lack of care for others’ feelings,basically you can ask a troll why are you doing this and his answer would be “payback needs to be quick and nasty.”High levels of cognitive empathy make these people adept at recognizing what will upset someone, and knowing when they’ve pushed the right buttons. The lack of effective empathy allows trolls not to experience or internalize the emotional experience of their victims, what am trying to say here trolls will always troll but when someone stands up to them they are considered a toxic player that's why sometimes good players are considered toxic.....they are encouraging people to do such things by not having a clear punishment for them like having a punishment for toxic baiters who like to run disco nunu or 9/11 corki or sad rammus full tear build, or not having a punishment for people who go premade and troll in champ select or in game, not to mention that their own streams troll sometimes without getting punished, so a random dude watch that and he goes and does it in a game, all that would have been resolved if they had a good punishment system not a system where u punish only flamers who cant deal with these trolls cause of a troll supporting system

Twist3dFend3rNov 13, 20171 votes

RIOT is like a neglectful father figure who wants you to love them, but doesn't really care if you do. They don't realize that the majority of their player base are people with social and emotional issues. And then they have this faceless nameless "father" figure who punishes them and takes their money and then doesn't make themselves available to be contacted or pleaded with. So it causes people to lash out at them and send them hate mail or post negative shit like this on the boards.. IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE HEARD. They don't give a damn about you, they want your money, that's it.