We shouldn't be defending assholes

Hello I am Bird·Feb 29, 2016·32 votes·2,584 views

A defense I see on these boards a lot is "just grow thicker skin."

Some of us, believe it or not, want to have fun. It's a lot harder to have fun when people berate us for the way we play.

If I'm feeding, I don't need to be told I'm a feeding fuck who deserves to kill himself. Toxicity is going to exist, I can live with that. But the defense shouldn't just be "you need to man up and take it in the ass like a real man."

With that logic, I could go over to someone's house, steal all their stuff, then be like "lol it's w/e just chill out bro".

A lot of my games have had a lot of toxic people, so excuse me if I'm being a bit angry, but I can't deal with everyone on these boards siding with the flamers and ragers and trolls.

78 Comments

Magus PolarisFeb 29, 20165 votes

A favorite thing for assholes to do is play the victim and portray another guy as an asshole when they are also an asshole. Maybe an asshole in a different way, but still an asshole.

EndlessSorcererFeb 29, 20164 votes

Seems relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sen8Tn8CBA4

disregardableFeb 29, 20165 votes

Telling you to grow a pair isn't siding with the trolls. You should still report them at the end of the game. There's just no reason to get upset over what some anonymous player that you will never see again told you. Just mute them at the first sign of toxicity and move on. Saves you a lot of stress, saves the boards a lot of pointless posts.

TrulyBlandFeb 29, 20162 votes

Well, the phrase OP pointed out specifically is "just grow thicker skin." A lot of people don't say it as advice, but as a justification as to why people shouldn't get punished. Otherwise, I absolutely agree. Learn to ignore assholes (while still reporting them, ofc) or this game will most likely drive you insane.

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

Grow thicker skin could go a long ways.. Our society is on a slippery sloped of decay by becoming bunch of PC whining ninnies that cant stick up for themselves so they ask "the system" to fix it.. In whatever wrong way possible. The current system is useless .. It gets rid of people that swear.. that's literally all it does.

TrulyBlandMar 2, 20161 votes

I usually dislike pointing out a slippery slope fallacy... but you literally used the words "slippery slope". Also: Swearing is not punished, or I would have been banned years ago.

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

I was using the term swearing generically. Go ahead and hop in about 3 years worth of games calling someone a S3itty Cu*t faced sister fucker and see if you don't get banned.. I also use the beloved bigotry terms as added flavor. Not because I trolled my team or intentionally screwed any of them over.. Ever.

TrulyBlandMar 2, 20161 votes

Being a douchebag to others is what gets you punished. One way to do that is by swearing at other players. Swearing by itself is not punished. "Fuck, got hit by a skillshot" is not the same as "Fuck you".

Kei143Feb 29, 20165 votes

People don't endorse "you f%cking feeder" with "grow a thicker skin", though if you do "grow a thicker skin", it does help you calm down, you can then ask for constructive criticism (AND TAKE THE CRITICISM) and go less on tilt.

You can still report them after the game.

La BarbotteFeb 29, 20163 votes

we say things like that becasue sadly, theres nothing we can do about them, tribunal is offline since what ? 2 years now, toxicity comes from people wanting wins over fun and thinking they deserve a better rank but their team is the only thing holding them in ''elo hell'' (btw if elo hell is even a thing, its not in bronze/silver, its in high plat/low diamond were elo boosted people play with high elo people so stop saying youre stuck in bronze people) so as long a there is multiplayer, there will be rage, flame, and cancer, sorry mate, but this is internet

IqqiFeb 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

we say things like that becasue sadly, theres nothing we can do about them, tribunal is offline since what ? 2 years now, toxicity comes from people wanting wins over fun and thinking they deserve a better rank but their team is the only thing holding them in ''elo hell'' (btw if elo hell is even a thing, its not in bronze/silver, its in high plat/low diamond were elo boosted people play with high elo people so stop saying youre stuck in bronze people) so as long a there is multiplayer, there will be rage, flame, and cancer, sorry mate, but this is internet

you called?

aj502 OneillFeb 29, 20161 votes

(btw if elo hell is even a thing, its not in bronze/silver, its in high plat/low diamond were elo boosted people play with high elo people so stop saying youre stuck in bronze people)

That's not true at all....Look up my history...I constantly get multiple players in double digit deaths on my team like these, and they throw the game...I can't stop them from going in 1v3/4/5 just to get 1 kill...

If someone is boosted, and they aren't good enough to play at that lvl, they won't be there very long... Meanwhile, because I don't play at a platinum lvl, I can't carry games like this to get out of bronze...

http://imgur.com/JCPZSR0

La BarbotteFeb 29, 20162 votes

the blitz the xin and the ekko fed too, your opponents arent better than your teamates so yes if you deserved to climb you would carry those guys

aj502 OneillMar 1, 20161 votes

You mean their 3 that fed, the 2 that didn't the damage dealers, versus our 4 that fed?

What kind of odd logic are you working with here?

La BarbotteMar 1, 20161 votes

im saying that you arent a special snowflake, the other team had feeders too, its your job as a jungler to snowball your lanes, its harder to feed when you one shot the other than when your left by yourself

aj502 OneillMar 1, 20161 votes

No, what you SAID was that 3 of their team fed, as opposed to our 4, and therefore if I was any good at all, we should have won...

Which makes absolutely zero sense at all.

Now you put that fact in almost every game I have team mates with double digit deaths, like I stated, unless you are a very high ELO which I am not, you simply cannot carry multiple deathcounts like that to victory on a consistent basis.

No one needs to be "special" in any ways to do that math, Mensa.

La BarbotteMar 1, 20161 votes

you could have focused on one of your teamtes, make two of you carrying vs two, then as mighty as you are, you're supposed to win becasue no way you deserve your elo

aj502 OneillMar 1, 20161 votes

Oh you mean like perhaps...The Teemo?

Forgive me but although it was the easiest to shovel kills onto the Teemo, as I felt he was the best player to do this to, I do not have the superpower you must have to stop him from going into terrible situations, thus his high death count.

So again, stepping away from your myopic and linear thought process, there is nothing I can do to "carry" a game when I constantly have two or more players that have double digit deaths.

I can ping warnings all day - I can suggest and target minion waves and towers as well, but if they are determined to spend the next 10-30 seconds running to a fight instead of pushing lanes and taking towers there is nothing i can do to stop that mindset.

And as stated, I am NOT that good of an ELO to carry multiple players with double digit deaths..

I really do not think you understand how hard it is to win a game when 2-3-4 players on your team get such hi death counts...And if you indeed do, imagine how hard it is to do it in most of your games.

Do you suggest I JOIN the party and acquire double digit deaths as well? Somehow, I don't think that will be beneficial.

Please do tell oh high, mighty, condescending and snobby one

La BarbotteMar 1, 20162 votes

i get what you mean bud, but here's what i think, and maybe im wrong people do suck and theres nothing you can do for that BUT, lets say you are jungle 10 games (i base my shit on the one you sent you must main jungle) on 10 games 9 of them your teamates feed enough to end world hunger, and the other goes fine. so 9 games were your teamates feed why are they feeding ? are they getting ganked while you arent there to countergank ? maybe you were ganking someone else or farming. are they pushing an objective while you arent near to assist ? maybe you were split pushing or farming.

now i know you cant play for them BUT nothing is holding you from backseating everything they do to make sure after a good Teamfight you get a turret, dragon, herald etc.

your teamates probably dont ward, it sucks but youre gonna have to take vision control so green smite and sweeper and ward deep in their jg when you see where the enemy jg is etc, tiny shit like that will make them spot the ennemy or get OBJ's instead of chasing kills etc and maybe youll get 3 games of impossible feeding instead of 9

aj502 OneillMar 1, 20161 votes

warning LONG READ:

I don't necessarily "main" JG...I just been going it a lot lately.

I will give you the majority of the reason they "feed": It's (usually) not because they get ganked in lane, or even crushed solo in lane. TBH, a lot of the time that goes fine. It's their mid game. They, the "KDA hunters", always think that after laning phase it's all about teamfighting and chasing the enemy. When a couple of those go bad, do they stop? Oh hell no! You've seen it. They will congo line in one by one and scratch their heads why they keep losing fights. Or, more realistically, start blaming everyone else but their poor decision making.

Sure, a couple might trade a 1 for 1 but over all it turns out to be us losing 3 and only killing 2...Then the one players sees they are all low and thinks they can go Katarina and mop em up and promptly dies. Bam, there goes any map pressure we had. Not worth

Wash/Rinse/Repeat

And since we are back to civil, non snide discussion - which I thank you for - I will respond in kind:

Now overall, I hope you didn't get the impression that I think I am far superior, because I am not. I also know that age old excuse of "It's players like this is why i can't climb" is almost always a cop out. I DO think I get matched up with players of a lower caliber far too often tho, and here's the reason why: Bronze is just fully saturated with bad and not so good players...I mean, there is TONS of them. I'm not even including the happy go lucky trolls/ragekids/intentional feeders either.

Now again, I do not think I am super good, but I DO know that in most cases NOT DYING is the BEST thing you can do to win.

Now I don't necessarily think my team is quite on the "feeding" level, but more often than not, I get the 2-3+ players that will covet KILLS over everything else. If they SEE an enemy, they will fight. If they SEE a fight, they will run all the way across the map to join it no matter what. Even if there's an undefended tower or a nice fat minion wave to push it don't matter - there are gone in search of that "godly" KDA...Or at least mucho kills stat. It doesn't matter if i tell them, or even SHOW them BAM! I/you can take 1-2 towers while the rest of the team, and the enemy team, is jerking each other off fighting every possible time they can.

It's just the mindset down here. And because there is so MANY bad players "down here", I will get them on my team more often than not. Is it completely their fault i can't climb out? No, of course not...But they are partially responsible.

How many time does a bronze game have 70 total deaths? Seriously...70?! You do NOT need to kill the enemy that many times to win!!!

Sure, i will go on a "hot streak" where i get smart team mates that won't chase the golden KDA but it don't matter because by law of averages I will eventually get the 2-3-4 string of teams that chase KDA to completely negate what I just did...

What happens when you just get a couple losses as opposed to several wins? Your ELO drops like panties on prom night.

So that's it in a nutshell (a big nutshell), I can and do climb some but my hard work is always instantly rebuffed by a couple games that drops me right back down.

Again, do I think I am super good? No, not at all. Do i think i am better than most everyone in Bronze? Yes i do. Will I get matched up with people of my skill instead of bad players so I can climb? Not often. Why? Because Bronze has so many MORE bad players.

My 10 game win streaks are instantly killed with 3-4 bad teams it's futile. That is why I originally said the true "ELO Hell" is down here, in the cellar. And this is the reason why.

Thanks for the eyes if ya made it all the way thru

-aj

La BarbotteMar 1, 20161 votes

im silver man i know they are dumb but so are your enemies and i got out of bronze playing what they consider ''freelo'' champion (because they dont know how to play matchups) like Vi, amumu, fizz, master yi and tryndamere, its easy, even if your team feeds if you get a pick on a mispositionned adc or mid laner you usually win the fight cause they suck too on the other side, and trust me, even if your vi the adc will try to poke you with AA's like a retard and its a free RQE combo to death and bam you won that fight, and the next and so on and in a week your out of bronze

Hello I am BirdMar 2, 20161 votes

Well, you know what they say: Mistakes are easier to detect in black and white ;)

XeynidMar 2, 20163 votes

I think Lyte said on Reddit one time that the vast majority of people that say "Grow a thicker skin" are the same people getting banned.

MasterSomethingFeb 29, 20162 votes

We don't defend toxics. We laugh at them when they get banned. Get the difference?

3TWarriorFeb 29, 20161 votes

considering 66% of toxic players do not reform and instead make a new account?

they are caught quicker when they do, as they instead go on a rant, but toxic players tend to have nothing to lose

MasterSomethingMar 1, 20161 votes

They waste their time then, and will usually get banned quickly.

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

Completely untrue. I would say that an enormous amount of the un-banned problem people do just that,. They make a new account all the wiser and continue to destroy the game in other ways.. In every game I que there is at least 3 people divided among the teams.

MasterSomethingMar 2, 20161 votes

What do you want Riot to do? They can't simply IP ban them, College Dorm issue and it's easy to get around. The best they can do is ban their accounts and hope the losses are enough to either make people realize how bad they are or get them to leave. They also can't make it harder to sign up for new accounts as new players might have a hard time getting on. Do you see how hard this situation is? Imo they brought the system as best they could without hurting most innocent people.

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

I want riot to start banning people for their in-game intentional trolling,, instead of just focusing on chat.. People know if they stay quiet and troll their hearts out it's all fine. I have never seen, heard, or otherwise been informed that anyone has EVER been banned for their in-game trollish play. Hell, there isn't even a report option really ? AFK or intentional feeding. Those are just the easy obvious worst examples but easily avoided also for the real problem people.

MasterSomethingMar 2, 20161 votes

What defines trolling? It's quite obvious sometimes, but trolling otherwise is extremely hard to detect. The system doesn't want to flag players having bad games, but honestly it's quite hard to get a real grip on a troll without watching them personally.

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

Therein lies the problem.. The chat is gone over rapidly and not exhaustively. If it was covered exhaustively I would still have my account. My abusive chat and extremely profane responses occur beyond the 20 minute mark, in most cases, after repeated attempts to rectify the problem with these people. Fed up is fed up and once I hit that point there is no turning back. I'm going all in including slurs of every sex/race/color/creed/sexual preference and anything else I can toss into the crap pile that ensues.. Watch the game as it plays out with the chat as context..

Chat is only chat without context.

MasterSomethingMar 2, 20161 votes

Abuse is still abuse, context doesn't matter. You are in control of what you say. Ban deserved.

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

abuse is still abuse ? what kind of argument is that even ? Ok let me lay out a scenario.

You come home from work to find your front door busted down and a common shit-pile thug on top of your girlfriend (against her will - yours may welcome it) at this point you pull him off and beat him within inches of his life.. Who is the abuser here ?

I'll just leave it there. It's plain logic people use your heads.

MasterSomethingMar 2, 20162 votes

Except that isn't even close to being a good analogy. You have to tell me how this analogy is relatable to your situation.

Abuse is still abuse, that statement will always be true. Doesn't matter whether it's justified or not, it's still abuse. It will always be abuse.

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

That is a perfect analogy.. Couldn't match better.. Only this is physical abuse.. Here.. this will be easier.

Starting troll - Thug - goes into the situation with bad intention from the start to create a problem

Girlfriend - My trying teammates / chance at an actual game - innocent victim

Dude kicking trolls ass verbally - Guy beating thug to near death experience - Reactionary human being that is completely fed up.

you plainly stated context doesn't matter.. I'm not so sure anyone in my example would agree nor the police, nor the courts for that matter.

MasterSomethingMar 2, 20161 votes

Yea, but sorry, you are acting in this case like your team is defenseless. You act like they can't do anything, implying that they require you. If it truly was your team, you would also be the girlfriend. That is one of many issues of your analogy.

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

They can't do anything friend. They do need someone. That should be a working rule-set that bans trolls not just chat, but their only recourse would get them banned. There is no recourse. They are the girlfriend. They surely don't want the thug on top of them, but exactly like a lot of girlfriends cant physically defend themselves with 0 tools from Riot to do so. I won't lay there regardless of Riots pathetically inept rule-set and be raped.

MasterSomethingMar 2, 20161 votes

Just gonna leave out there that what you said is incredibly sexist. Regardless, you were in the wrong for yelling at your team. End of story.

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

Well, you win. I cannot possibly make more sense than I am currently. I have no idea how a generality of "most" women being physically unable to defend themselves to a ill-mannered thug is sexist. You clearly have not read thoroughly about the situation as I never yelled and my "teammates". My "teammates" are the ones who came in with a genuine intent to try and play to the benefit of others in their group. I yelled/continue to yell at the asshole who comes in with bad intent to screw us all over and just happens to be the same side of the game as us. Definitely not my "teammate".

MasterSomethingMar 2, 20161 votes

You also annoyed everyone else who just wanted to keep playing or not. Yelling at a troll isn't going to do anything. They are going to keep trolling. You are making little sense, and you also sound very stupid right now.

Bruised EgoFeb 29, 20162 votes

Yea, but at the same time, I don't like it when people are way too sensitive. For example, questioning a build or a play is perfectly reasonable and should not be considered toxicity. Sometimes, when people point things out, it is genuinely meant to correct future mistakes. Other times, it is simply to vent a little bit, which I think is fine. There is a line that should not be crossed, but I really hate overly sensitive people.

Example 1: Player 1: Why did you tower dive? I pinged us away from that.

Player 2: Stop being toxic.

Example 2: Player 1: I don't think you should be building tiamat on Teemo.

Player 2: Wow, mind your own business and just worry about your own play. Gosh, I wish people weren't so toxic.

Hello I am BirdMar 1, 20161 votes

I can agree with that.

However, wording is incredibly important

The difference between "I don't think you should build tiamat on a ranged character" and "Wow you are really fucking stupid, aren't you?" is amazing.

Oerba No NajaMar 1, 20161 votes

there is a mute buton . sensitive baby you cant compare a game chat that can be solved with click with real life stuff .

LauchmelderMar 2, 20162 votes

Mute is an Option, not a solution. If you have to mute someone the damage has already been done. - Lyte (if I remember correctly)

SnT PusciferMar 2, 20161 votes

the damage LMAO get real. The real damage was done to my wallet #permabanned - for chewing out trolls

MyrmironMar 2, 20161 votes

Here's the problem: #What you're supposed to do: -mute, report and move on. #What you instead do: -cry on the boards

Everyone has their fair share of trolls, flamers and whatnot in their games. But most of us don't go to the boards, cry about it and demand to be comforted. No, we mute, report and move on. Then on the boards we see someone crying about it like it's something special. OF COURSE people will tell you to grow a thicker skin, because that's nothing to cry about. It's just another asshole, in another league game talking big and screaming for attention like someone cares.

Hello I am BirdMar 2, 20162 votes

Perhaps I'm only emphasizing your point, but this was kind of a rude way to go about saying this.

However, to actually respond to your post "mute, report, and move on" only goes so far when they can still verbally abuse you pre-game (I.E: Champ select) and post-game. It gets to a point where you just get really depressed.

We all have our own personal struggles in real life, we don't need more people weighing down our problems.

Yeah, they are just "someone else on the internet", but I don't know any program that insults players for you. That means it's real people that say that to me, behind a screen, yes, but still. It gets to me, and sometimes I need to vent.

Yes, I will report them. Does that make my experience any more enjoyable? No, it doesn't.

It isn't exactly like these boards are filled with people saying "I hate ragers". I'm just a thread floating about, okay?

It isn't me screaming for attention, it's me hoping to find people to relate to. It helps alleviate myself.

I can always tell myself "lol yeah, everyone goes through this", but it's harder to truly imagine that.

MyrmironMar 2, 20161 votes

You seem ti give a lot of fucks about what other people think about you. Good luck being happy with that mindset.

Valor BotMar 3, 20161 votes

I think people who say things like, "Just grow a thicker skin," "Take it like a man," "Mute them and move on," etc. are simply listing possible methods of coping with these problems rather than addressing the fact that what toxic people are doing is actually wrong.

Yes, we shouldn't cry or become depressed over the unkind words of people on the Internet. Yes, we should be more resilient and learn to set aside those who would do harm to us. Yes, we should report them to the system to get them removed and move on.

But at the same time, we need to recognize that these aren't really the kinds of things we should have to deal with in the first place. An ethical person wouldn't threaten others' lives over the sake of a video game. We shouldn't call others terrible names just because of a gameplay mistake. We need to practice compassion rather than growing bitter, bigoted, and impatient with other players of the community. And just because there are ways of effectively dealing with these people doesn't justify the moral downfalls of their actions.

Anyway, thanks for this thread. Toxicity sucks.

As an aside, do I sense a fellow Quinn main?! I think I found myself a new friend.

Hello I am BirdMar 3, 20161 votes

I like you on all levels :v

I play a lot of Quinn and Anivia