Tips & Tricks: Was my chat log ACTUALLY toxic?

ModWuks··19 votes·1,751 views

For starters, if your chat logs are consistently lengthy, but neither banter nor constructive, that should be a pretty blatant red flag. In-game chat is meant to foster in-game relationships and encourage teamwork. If you're using it to tilt, bash, or otherwise offend or insult another player, you're PROBABLY doing it wrong.

Jungler fails a gank? It. Happens. Your boosted ADC goes 0/5 at 7 minutes? Unlucky. You, however, have the choice of moving on from that game not having said a negative thing and keeping your account in good standing; or you could harrass someone having a bad game, which decreases your team's morale and subsequently your chances of winning, and you can have your account flagged for review/punishment.

With this short trick, you, too, can make sure you don't have to come to PB&M asking whether your reform card shows toxicity:

Keep comments constructive, positive, or at least neutral. In most games, however, you should be focusing on playing the game, which means you'll want to cut down on the time you spend coming up with clever putdowns and insults.

Here's an example: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/tWzQalPA-can-someone-tell-me-the-parts-where-i-was-toxic

39 Comments

Kei1439 votes

BHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTT THEY STARTED IT FIRST !! AND I DIDN'T EVEN CUSS !!!!!!

PLZ UNBAN, I SPENT $20 ON MY ACCOUNT!!

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Forced Feed5 votes

What these flamers don't understand is team morale can have a MAJOR impact on your team's performance. Sure, not every player is going to be affected by flamers, but I'd say a majority are at least slightly affected when you have at least 1 of them on your team.

If you encourage a player when a gank fails 'We got em next time' etc instead of flaming them, you can make them perform slightly better. You're also encouraging your team because they know you're not going to freak out and blame them if something goes wrong.

What these flamers don't understand is team morale is really important. Instead they think everyone who is affected by team morale is 'weak' but team morale applies to real life games/sports as well, it's an inherent part of when people are working as a team. But they're too busy flaming everyone to listen and understand this for even a moment.

OnlyYouCanHearMe1 votes

^^ exactly this.

While sometimes we are lucky enough to be paired up with players who are all quite experienced with the champions they are playing, that isn't always the case. And if you have a teammate who is still learning a champion, or trying them in a new role, or with a new build, or any number of different things, it can be so easy for them to get discouraged. Saying something as simple as "We got em next time" can mean the difference in that player going 0/10 or 10/1. One little positive experience can be enough to encourage a player to stick with a champion, and who knows, it might become their new main, and they might hit diamond with them because of it.

seasaltcake2 votes

I just don't understand why people flame at all, even if it's just to vent. It's not like insulting someone after they make a mistake will somehow prevent them from making another bad play for the rest of the game, yet people still flame all game like that's what they're trying to do.

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

And I just don't understand why people get offended when people "flame" them.

seasaltcake2 votes

"Flaming is a hostile and insulting interaction between persons over the internet, often involving the use of profanity."

Maybe because the purpose of flaming is to offend and put down the person it's aimed at? Why would you throw insults if you don't intend to insult someone?

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

I never said you wouldn't try to insult someone. I simply said I don't understand how people are insulted when someone calls them bad. Lack of confidence much.

Forced Feed2 votes

That's right, you don't understand. Look up team morale and how much effort is put into it for professional sports teams. It's literally one of the only things that applies to both online games and real sports.

Troll for Trump3 votes

Why is anything not positive punishable?

ModWuks1 votes

Neutral is fine. Most things that are negative are punishable, though.

Troll for Trump2 votes

People will always take offense to something, even if you're positive.

They'll always report you for it.

You don't know if you'll get punished for it, and Riot won't post clear-cut guidelines (otherwise people would circumvent them)

The only way to stay safe is to not type at all, which is ridiculous.

Shouldn't be discouraged to voice your mind.

Yes, there are limits (racism, personal attacks, etc.), but people get pissed off everything.

Constructive criticism, for instance.

OnlyYouCanHearMe2 votes

The thing about constructive criticism though is that it, by definition, is intended to help the player become better. And that player may not want your, or anyone else's help. And if you continually try to force your "help" on another player throughout an entire match when they really do not want it, it becomes very irritating to them. It may be well-intentioned, but if it's only pissing them off, then it's just ruining the gaming experience for that player.

I see a lot of people comment on the boards how the only way to be safe is to just not type, and honestly, I don't agree with that at all. I've never had any issues with typing in game. I've never had a ban, or a chat restriction, or any punishment, and I type plenty in game. But the main difference I see between what I type and the logs from the people who are being punished is that I'm not focusing on what the other people in my game are doing. I'm not trying to tell them what to do. I'm not trying to tell them what they've done wrong. I'm keeping track of where the wards are, what the timers are, when we need to take objectives. I'm letting my team know when we should engage because we have an item advantage, or when we should play safe because we're behind. I'm making some dumb jokes to lighten the mood and ease tension. I'm complimenting my team on good plays, or the enemy team if they make good outplays. I'm sticking up for the enemy support if they are being trashed by their adc (personal soapbox there). If there is a Lee Sin anywhere in the game, I'm hitting on him shamelessly because Lee Sin is smexy (would not be surprised if I was reported for sexual harassment on that one somewhere in the past <.< ). Point is, you don't have to be afraid to talk in game. You don't have to be afraid to be friendly and open with your teammates. Common sense and good manners can carry you 95% of the way to not being reported. A little bit of self-control when confronted with trolls will carry you the rest of the way.

Troll for Trump1 votes

So basically you can't talk unless you act like some super-positive cartoon character.

Might as well not talk, then.

Not talking > empty words

OnlyYouCanHearMe1 votes

Absolutely nothing "super-positive cartoon character"-like about these comments: This sort of thing makes up the vast majority of what I type during the match, because I'm trying to win. And this is vital information. No one is ever going to be banned because they typed "tri-bush is warded" in chat. Or because they said "Jungle and mid have roamed top, bot backed, let's take this drag real quick before they can stop us." Or "She's got a BF, let's just poke and not all-in until my ult is up."

  • I'm keeping track of where the wards are
  • Keeping track of what the timers are
  • Commenting on when we need to take objectives
  • I'm letting my team know when we should engage because we have an item advantage Letting my team know when we should play safe because we're behind

Possibly "super-positive cartoon character"-like comments: Personally, I don't think these things are quite as insipid as you are making them seem. Sure, it can be taken overboard just like anything else, but there's nothing wrong with telling your team that they did something well. Your jungler stole baron or dragon? It's OK to tell him he did awesome. Your toplane Shen had a clutch ult+flash taunt to save a fed carry? Yep, you can tell him too. And the same goes for the enemy team. Just because you are both trying to win, doesn't mean you have to be angry with the players. I played a match the other night, where the enemy Draven had one of the best flash escapes I've ever seen. He just had some insane reaction time, and there was no reason for me not to compliment him on escaping what would have been a hopeless situation for many players. The important thing, and what keeps it from becoming "cartoonish" is using moderation. There's nothing wrong with a compliment here and there, provided that you're still focusing on the match, rather than turning it into a non-stop ass-kissing stage.

  • I'm complimenting my team on good plays
  • Complimenting the enemy team if they make good outplays
  • I'm sticking up for the enemy support if they are being trashed by their adc

Definitely "super-positive cartoon character"-like comments: I've got no defense here. This is pretty goofy, and isn't the sort of thing that everyone enjoys doing. But it's actually how I met my duo partner, way back in Season 3 before we were even level 30. We've been partners and best friends ever since. And we still share a love of lame jokes.

  • Making some dumb jokes to lighten the mood and ease tension
  • Hitting on the Lee Sin
Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah that's just it, all the in-game stuff doesn't really need to be kept track of. You can ping the dragon timer, type tribush warded and all that.

That's not actually talking.

And the random jokes aren't really talking either.

Troll for Trump1 votes

DiscoHeat is one of the youtubers that Riot semi-frequently feature on their homepage

This is from one of his streams a week ago

This is the stuff I'm talking about.

Like, wtf can you do?

Just go through the rest of the game.

OnlyYouCanHearMe1 votes

I've never heard of this guy before; was quite an interesting video to watch. I was a bit curious about the group dynamics of how they all left at exactly the same time, so I looked them up. Seems he was unlucky enough to get matched up with two duos. I'm not saying it excuses their behavior, because it doesn't, but it does tend to explain a bit why and how they snowballed jumping onto him so quickly. (Hecarim and Tahm were together, Katarina and Tristana were together) And when people are together, quite often they do tend to come to the aid of their friends at any perceived insult or injury, whether it's a verbal slight, or some action in the game that is construed as causing a hardship.

In that case, Disco actually did the PERFECT thing. Which was say absolutely nothing. First rule of the internet. Don't feed the trolls. And he didn't. When the Tahm ate him and spit him into the Irelia, as a support main, I know what the Tahm's intention was. It was to get him away from any further damage from the Shaco box. Not sure what rank Disco is on his main, or if this is it, but these other guys are Silver. Tahm probably never saw the Irelia coming, and I'm sure he meant well, but it would have pissed me off just as much as it did Disco to be tossed into my death! But he really handled it brilliantly. He kept it to himself (and his stream) and did not type anything impolite, did not say anything even remotely snippy to his team.

This is one of those situations that you may see some of us mention when someone asks "what am I supposed to do when my team is flaming me?!" And those of us who comment frequently on this section of the boards will often tell them "Nothing. Say nothing. If you don't trust yourself to say nothing, mute them so you don't see it." Obviously, Disco has the ability to keep from saying something in response to what he sees. Not all players have that level of restraint yet. And that's not a "bad" thing; it doesn't mean a person is weak-willed, or anything like that. They may just not have as much experience with that sort of situation. But what he did on stream, is the sort of thing we try to encourage players to do. Because by saying nothing, even if they all reported him... those reports will be thrown out. He didn't do anything wrong. There is literally nothing in the logs to back up any sort of negative behavior, griefing, harassment or toxicity. And with him having a decent build, good cs, and 4 out of 11 kill participation, it's extremely unlikely that any reports for "trolling" would stick. Those reports are already difficult enough to prove in the case of actual trolls.

Troll for Trump1 votes

The point I meant to make with the vid is that, even if you say something as simple as "Tahm can you not eat me" people get pissed off and start flipping out.

You can hardly say anything without getting someone pissed off.

ModPrandine

{quoted}

The point I meant to make with the vid is that, even if you say something as simple as "Tahm can you not eat me" people get pissed off and start flipping out.

You can hardly say anything without getting someone pissed off.

If someone wants to get offended over every little thing then that's their problem, not yours. As long as you know when to just stop talking you should feel free to say whatever positive or neutral stuff that you want to say to others.

Troll for Trump1 votes

True, but it becomes my problem when their sensitivity causes me to have to stop typing altogether, or carefully piece together a janga tower of a sentence that doesn't collapse and damage the person's ego.

ModPrandine

{quoted}

True, but it becomes my problem when their sensitivity causes me to have to stop typing altogether, or carefully piece together a janga tower of a sentence that doesn't collapse and damage the person's ego.

At that point it's better to just mute them and move on rather than try to respond to them, as more than likely they're not gonna have anything helpful or constructive to say throughout the game when they decide that their precious ego is more important than any actual verbal communication.

Chønklord2 votes

Try doing that when you are a strictly off-meta champ player and get harassed/griefed/belittled/told you're shit because you're still silver 4 with 2k games played/your champion sucks/your items suck/your summoner spells suck, and the list goes on.

Very hard to be positive and relaxed when you have people like that in almost every game -- especially if your team is losing.

I like talking with people, I like debating people, and I like trying to help people. But having that occur on a daily basis, makes me want to always /mute all.

OnlyYouCanHearMe2 votes

Yes, it can indeed be difficult at times. As a Support main (where it's so often always my fault) I feel your pain.

Forced Feed1 votes

Giving advice can be positive, negative, or neutral really.

Giving one or two lines of constructive advice can be positive. (Hint: Don't include the words feeding or trash build in your 'advice') Giving advice all game is negative even if you're giving 'positive' advice, no one wants to hear it all game, and often the players I see constantly giving advice aren't paying attention to their own gameplay much. Some players will start giving advice instead of outright blaming the other player, but it accomplishes the same thing.

Troll for Trump3 votes

People always assume that the person posting these types of responses is innately toxic.

pretty frustrating.

No, I don't use "feeding", or "Trash build."No, I don't tell them to do it constantly.

They just act like angsty, rebellious teenagers, who always respond with something along the lines of "you can't tell me what to do" and get triggered.

Chønklord1 votes

^ Can verify -- there are a lot of 'angsty, rebellious teen wannabe's' in League. Most of the time they have a "I'm in this shit elo with you but I deserve to be plat/diamond" attitude (even though they tend to be the ones dying over and over with stupid mistakes).

Forced Feed1 votes

To be fair, most people I see giving advice are pretty toxic and don't actually give solid advice. Some guy will give some new tip of advice every time a guy dies , or tells them to build the wrong items, or starts giving way too much advice instead of actually playing.

This post wasn't against you, but just in general trying to discourage people from giving advice. One or two lines is fine, but even 'positive' advice can get annoying if it continues all game.

The players that respond to advice by freaking out, it's best just to leave them alone.

Lil Lewd Witch2 votes

But...that doesn't justify MY Opinion!

/sarcasm

OnlyYouCanHearMe2 votes

Thank you for another gem to add to my Wuks' Wisdom bookmarks for best answers to PB&M questions!

ModWuks2 votes

😉👉👉

Clementine2 votes

it just feels bad when your top is 0/3, jungle died to gromp, and your bot is 0/5 together and the game is over before you do anything. Losing games in champ select is tilting is all

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

You'd find that toxicity would naturally decrease if rito actually put effort into banning things that cause toxicity. Sure, you're going to have some 14 year old saying kys. That's not what were discussing here. But throwing a chat restriction on the guy who called the Lee Sin that AFK'd a "fuck boi" isn't going to fix anything, as made obvious by the past 4+ years. It will just continue to get worse. Most of the time I see people "flame" is because of some dude that's just trolling the game. And there are A LOT of trolls. So getting these players game in and game out creates a very toxic environment. Until the root causes are addressed, this community will continue to be known as one of the shittiest. It's that simple.

Chønklord1 votes

{quoted}

For starters, if your chat logs are consistently lengthy, but neither banter nor constructive, that should be a pretty blatant red flag. In-game chat is meant to foster in-game relationships and encourage teamwork. If you&#039;re using it to tilt, bash, or otherwise offend or insult another player, you&#039;re PROBABLY doing it wrong.

Jungler fails a gank? It. Happens. Your boosted ADC goes 0/5 at 7 minutes? Unlucky. You, however, have the choice of moving on from that game not having said a negative thing and keeping your account in good standing; or you could harrass someone having a bad game, which decreases your team&#039;s morale and subsequently your chances of winning, and you can have your account flagged for review/punishment.

Or you know, harass them by saying "report player X for int feeding"; as long as you don't say anything more than that, then its legalized harassment (on a scale of 6) by Riot.

Let everyone else start bullying and griefing on said player in the chat while you sit back and watch the game burn.

ModWuks1 votes

Sounds like you're just trying to be a dick, which breaks the rule of "not being a dick".

Chønklord1 votes

Not if you're a subtle dick. Just the tip.

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Tbh if you have to ask then the answer is usually yes

AdeBug1 votes

No, it's not. Never had a troll asking for reports in all chat for no good reason but to piss players off?

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Question: "Was my chat log ACTUALLY toxic?" Answer: "Tbh if you have to ask then the answer is usually yes"

I don't see where your reply fits in with that. What does a troll asking for reports have to do with possible toxic chat logs?

AdeBug1 votes

My reply does fit with that, however your reply does not answer my question.

So before I go ahead and explain myself if I ever decide to, please answer my q. Atm I'm assuming the answer is No.

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