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Why WE DEFEND OURSELVES IN CHAT

ViiLLAiN··5 votes·1,732 views

You know im gonna say this and i know it will be taken down soon but its the STONE COLD TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH HURTS!

Riot says, Just because someone talks bad to you or is toxic towards you doesn't mean you can be toxic back.

Now, as a child growing up bullies tried to talk down to me tried to push me around call me names. After months of this harassment and me telling teachers what happened every day at lunch nothing changed. The bullying didn't stop. And if it did stop to me, some other kid would get bullied next week.

You wanna know what happens when the "Authorities" Do not or can not handle a situation like this?

PEOPLE TAKE IT INTO THEIR OWN HANDS AND DEFEND THEMSELVES.

So what i did when i realized telling someone does not work or "reporting them" I kicked their ass myself.

I got suspended for it sure but they never fcked with me again.

What does this say about our society ?

FIGHTING BACK IS THE ONLY WAY TO RESOLVE PROBLEMs!

When reporting and telling on people does not work WHAT CHOICE DO YOU LEAVE US?!?!?!

Why do the people who are harassed every day become the victims of the "Authorities" ?

Why do the Criminals aka "Toxic players, Trolls, Flammers, intent feeders, afks," all get to run away free.....

Your game is broken and all of it stems from its toxicity....

67 Comments

0pAL2NlcpJ9 votes

When a dog bites you, you don't bite back. If you bite back, you are no better than the dog. Riot made mute/ignore functions and Report buttons for a reason. I believe the system is good and punishes on-going negativity appose to one-time offenders.

Icy Spectre2 votes

Yes I will kick it, not bite.

If you fight fire with fire, you're braindead, that's why you spill lava on it.

Atanchan1 votes

... But fighting fire with fire, while not reliable, can suffocate both of them and leave you with no fire. If you spill lava on a fire, well, not only is more stuff on fire, you've now got a puddle of lava that you can't do anything with but wait for it to cool or melt through the ground.

Icy Spectre1 votes

Okay, you win this one, but I will be back...

Nik Nikerson1 votes

Of course you don't bite the dog. You have no idea what that thing has been rolling in.

Kei1438 votes

you defend yourself when it matters.

When you defned yourself on the internet, it just shows that deep down your e-ego is fragile and probably lacking self esteem.

there isn't much worth in defending yourself on the internet.

Pheonixwish4 votes

It's not that players have low self-esteem, it's just that they value their pride over doing well in the game. It's a different kind of value that's detrimental to the game in general, but it's super understandable. Personally, I don't mind being insulted online, and never defend myself when my adc needs carrying supporting, but different people are different.

DrCyanide7 votes

You know what they say, "Pride cometh before a fall ban."

There are ways to "defend yourself" that don't involve dropping down to their level. If you're respectful and objective you make their actions look even more childish, but when you respond in kind you both look like bickering children, made worse by the fact that you want to use "he started it" as an excuse when you're punished.

Pheonixwish2 votes

True, it's just hard for people to resist their first instinct, and I don't blame them for it. I won't be able to change someone's opinion about defending themselves in a single post/game, but I can explain my reasoning for myself ^^

Firu2 votes

Another problem is people over estimate when they are "defending themselves". There are plenty of situations described on the boards where someone is like "Oh, our ADC went 0-5, clearly a troll! They deserve to be flamed!" When in reality, that could just be someone having a bad game. In which case, the aggressor may think they're protecting their ego and defending their team but in reality, they are the only troll present.

Pheonixwish1 votes

That's not self-defense in any sense of the word. There's no threat to ego, just a threat to victory, and flaming the player will only instigate a fight.

Firu1 votes

I agree with you. I was just trying to couch my statement in a way relatable to people who might first jump at the "it is a defense" argument.

Icy Spectre1 votes

[deleted]

Kei1436 votes

don't spew toxicness, don't get banned.

not that hard.

Atanchan2 votes

Except, you know, humans have emotions. And even if you personally aren't a human, most of the people using the internet are, in fact, humans.

Kei1431 votes

jsut being overly emotional over something that doesn't matter.

Atanchan1 votes

What can I say? I hate assholes. It's normal to hate assholes.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

Having read enough comments on youtube videos, I feel like that is debatable.

SmokedAlmonds6 votes

There are some important difference between bullies in a setting like school and someone being toxic in league. A bully in a school can and likely will come back and continue the harassment. In league, you will never see that person again. In league we have an absolute defence that doesn't exist IRL, mute. Striking back in league also has collateral damage, the rest of the people in a game.

By striking back you are accomplishing nothing and you are becoming the very thing that you hate.

Atanchan1 votes

I'm pretty sure I hate assholes, not people who tell assholes they're assholes.

Fovere1 votes

{quoted}

There are some important difference between bullies in a setting like school and someone being toxic in league. A bully in a school can and likely will come back and continue the harassment. In league, you will never see that person again. In league we have an absolute defence that doesn't exist IRL, mute. Striking back in league also has collateral damage, the rest of the people in a game.

By striking back you are accomplishing nothing and you are becoming the very thing that you hate.

You could easily take that and apply it to a collective mentality.

People behave a certain way because they get away with it. It doesn't have to be the same victim/target/whatever every time.

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

That is true, but being toxic to a toxic person doesn't typically stop them from being toxic, at least in my experience. It just escalates it. It takes it from what would or could have been limited to a few comments and turns it into two toxic people arguing.

If someone gets called an asshole, their first thought isn't usually "oh wow, you are right, let me change that". They get defensive and continue on. They just go on to the next game thinking it is everyone else is an asshole.

Fovere1 votes

{quoted}

That is true, but being toxic to a toxic person doesn't typically stop them from being toxic, at least in my experience. It just escalates it. It takes it from what would or could have been limited to a few comments and turns it into two toxic people arguing.

If someone gets called an asshole, their first thought isn't usually "oh wow, you are right, let me change that". They get defensive and continue on. They just go on to the next game thinking it is everyone else is an asshole.

It depends on how you handle things.

To me "toxic" doesnt mean much. It's like people saying "racist" when they mean prejudice, bigoted, or discriminatory.

"Toxic" can be harassment or hate speech, it can also be "negativity" or "unsportsmanlike" or it can simply be used in the place of rude or disrespectful.

I agree, if you are going to degrade into blaming, name-calling, etc. that is not productive. It makes the game unplayable. The object is to avoid those situations, but also to avoid situations that cause people to act out. The problem with the Riot solution is that is disregards anything that isnt "chat toxicity"

But I also think that showing aggression, disrespect, or rudeness can also work well to shut certain people down. It also helps the recipients of such treatment feel better, because they can assert themselves and validate the situation.

By saying you aren't allowed to do any of those things, you are increasing, rather than decreasing, feelings of helplessness which imo leads to a lot more toxicity than a few words in a game. Bullies tend to come about from those sorts of feelings and experiences.

GaleWinUnleashed4 votes

"Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty, and eventually you realize the pig likes it."

If someone is clearly going out of their way to troll you, anything you try to say will just make it worse. There is no point in "fighting back".

AeroWaffle3 votes

A question,

How are you "defending" yourself when you insult the aggressor back? Does insulting them somehow prevent them from continuing to insult you? You're not defending yourself by insulting assholes back, you're bringing yourself to their level. The real world analogies don't hold up. By punching a bully, you are at least defending yourself by possibly incapacitating the bully's ability to physically harass you.

You can "defend" yourself in League by muting them. It neatly and immediately prevents any and all chat from reaching you from them for the remainder of the match. Then, report them at the end of the game so that other players don't have to deal with them.

Icestar11863 votes

The problem with your logic: If you mute and report, it solves the problem. Contrary to your belief, they do in fact get banned. Retaliating pisses them off even more and now you've got two people "defending" at each other ruining the game for all 5 players.

eastcoastblaze2 votes

The sport of hockey has vigilantism. If a pkayer makes a dirty play and the refs dont call it, though sometimes even when they do, the other tean goes after the guy. Their enforcer either fights him, or the team starts hitting him into the ground. It works.

Awkward Couch3 votes

{quoted}

The sport of hockey has vigilantism. If a pkayer makes a dirty play and the refs dont call it, though sometimes even when they do, the other tean goes after the guy. Their enforcer either fights him, or the team starts hitting him into the ground. It works.

And in hockey, fights are allowed, in League, they are not.

Atanchan2 votes

Man, I know we're in a pretty passive meta right now, but it's not that passive.

SmokedAlmonds4 votes

And what happens after that fight? Both players go to the penalty box.

eastcoastblaze1 votes

And the next time the situation arises thr instigator thibks twice about doing it again

SmokedAlmonds3 votes

They also have refs to stop the fight after a shot time or if it becomes dangerous. In league it is just a fight that spirals out of control.

Imagine if every fight in hockey ended the game because the rest of the time was a bench clearing brawl. That is what happens in league.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

And it's literally the dumbest part of hockey.

eastcoastblaze1 votes

Do you even watch hockey dude? When did you start? 2 months ago?

Its been a traditional part of the game

Are you gojng to say that defenders shoving attackers spraying snow in goalies face is stupid too?

Nik Nikerson2 votes

"It's tradition" is the worst argument for anything. What does it add to the game? Absolutely nothing. I watch hockey because I want to watch hockey. If I want to watch people fight, I'll watch actual fighters.

eastcoastblaze1 votes

The whole vigilantism and enforcer role is hockey. Its what makes hockey hockey. You take that out and youve got soccer on ice with less flopping and a more contact

Nik Nikerson1 votes

No its not. Hockey is hockey regardless of whether there's enforcers or not. And even without vigilantism, hockey would be an incredibly physical contact sport. It's a pointless left over tradition that quite frankly is holding the sport back.

Do you get upset if you don't see a fight in a game? Do you even notice if there isn't a fight? It just doesn't make the game better, and I would bet 90% of everyone wouldn't even bat an eye if it were gone. Fans hold onto it out of tradition, but just because something is a tradition doesn't mean its a good thing. If enforcers and vigilantism were so vital to hockey as a sport, we'd allow kids to do it. We don't. In fact, we specifically tell kids not to do it.

Honestly, if they got rid of fighting in hockey, would you stop watching? I wouldn't. Because I don't watch hockey to see goons hit people.

Btw, I love that we've gotten into a hockey debate on the League boards.

eastcoastblaze1 votes

No i probably wouldnt stop watching it. To me hockey has always been about a fast paced game with heavy hitting that becomes a war of attrition. One of the things i love about the playoff hockey is the hitting, hit the other team into submission, and its one of the reasons i like watching Ovi. Dude can do it all, he scores he hits like a truck. The physicality of hockey is a major part of its identity and becomes a strategy for playoff teams

Nik Nikerson1 votes

Let me clear something up.There's a difference between physicality and throwing off the gloves and brawling on the ice. I have no problem with being physical, and putting a guy in the boards. It's the actual fighting that needs to go.

Firu2 votes

Retaliatory toxic behavior might be viewed as a "defense" per se but it is not a valid defense. All it does is really add to the problem not just for yourself but for the rest of your team and the rest of the players in the game. The best defense is to ignore the people you think are being toxic and report them after the game.

The argument of "they never messed with me again" isn't entirely valid either because the likelihood of playing with someone again is very small, especially at certain ranks.

ViiLLAiN1 votes

I love how all these people talk like they know better. I mean has any of them ever been in a game with a trio in a RANKED GAME feed troll and put blame on the only person who is doing good.

no i do not put mute all. How can i talk to my team and try to win the game??? if they all muted?

What u all are implying is...I have to sit there for 30-45 mins in a game where a pre made has no intentions of trying to work together with their other teammates make us lose lp and TIME.

I dont think anyone seriously understand how long 30- 45 mins is sitting there knowing ur gonna lose, team is being toxic towards you, you try to FF but they all click no THEN THE BEST PART , they all report you at the end of the game. EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE THE REASON WE LOST

This whole idea of just sitting there and having to swallow the fact that almost 60 percent of the games i play have players like these that force the team to lose a game....

the only way to actually stop this is to just stop playing the game.....

But no one is going to do that... because we all have the small glimmer of hope of well maybe next game will be different.... more times then not IT is never different

Oleandervine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=n ii t su j,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=agzO85xW,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-06-02T15:00:29.893+0000)

I love how all these people talk like they know better. I mean has any of them ever been in a game with a trio in a RANKED GAME feed troll and put blame on the only person who is doing good.

no i do not put mute all. How can i talk to my team and try to win the game??? if they all muted?

What u all are implying is...I have to sit there for 30-45 mins in a game where a pre made has no intentions of trying to work together with their other teammates make us lose lp and TIME.

I dont think anyone seriously understand how long 30- 45 mins is sitting there knowing ur gonna lose, team is being toxic towards you, you try to FF but they all click no THEN THE BEST PART , they all report you at the end of the game. EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE THE REASON WE LOST

This whole idea of just sitting there and having to swallow the fact that almost 60 percent of the games i play have players like these that force the team to lose a game....

the only way to actually stop this is to just stop playing the game.....

But no one is going to do that... because we all have the small glimmer of hope of well maybe next game will be different.... more times then not IT is never different

The thing is, the report system is for the most part automated, unless something severe happens and a human has to step in and look at the data to determine a ban. So since the system is a robot, it functions off of the chat logs, AFK offenses, and sometimes the KDA. So when a report gets lodged against someone, this automated system scans the chat log for keywords that may blip on the offensive language radar and keeps it on file. If it's particularly offensive, punishment will be issued. It also catalogs when someone is reported over a series of game; so if you say "go kill yourself" once each in 5 different games and get reported by even 1 person per game, while it may not happen that game, or the next two after, at a certain point the system will weigh all the reports over a series of games once the next one happens and use the collected data to ban you. This is why flaming someone who flamed you gets you banned. You come up in the chat log as having offensive language, and if several people report you at once, you get immediately banned, regardless of who started it. On the flip side, if you do not retaliate and you speak only positively, and they all report you, nothing happens to you and the system then lowers the quality of their reports. What this means is that the next time they report someone, the system will not flag their reports because they will already have been listed as fraudulent reporting and they'll be on a watch list, and the next person they bully will be saved from being banned for no reason, so long as they do nothing the system can affirm as toxic. So your behavior in this game of being toxic when someone is toxic to you has the reverse effect on helping other players.

Tl:Dr: Toxic gets flagged when you're reported. You get punished by the robot running the report system. No toxic speech makes robot not punish you; People reporting get flagged as abusing report system. Their reports are listed as invalid next time they report.

ViiLLAiN1 votes

{quoted}

The thing is, the report system is for the most part automated, unless something severe happens and a human has to step in and look at the data to determine a ban. So since the system is a robot, it functions off of the chat logs, AFK offenses, and sometimes the KDA. So when a report gets lodged against someone, this automated system scans the chat log for keywords that may blip on the offensive language radar and keeps it on file. If it's particularly offensive, punishment will be issued. It also catalogs when someone is reported over a series of game; so if you say "go kill yourself" once each in 5 different games and get reported by even 1 person per game, while it may not happen that game, or the next two after, at a certain point the system will weigh all the reports over a series of games once the next one happens and use the collected data to ban you. This is why flaming someone who flamed you gets you banned. You come up in the chat log as having offensive language, and if several people report you at once, you get immediately banned, regardless of who started it. On the flip side, if you do not retaliate and you speak only positively, and they all report you, nothing happens to you and the system then lowers the quality of their reports. What this means is that the next time they report someone, the system will not flag their reports because they will already have been listed as fraudulent reporting and they'll be on a watch list, and the next person they bully will be saved from being banned for no reason, so long as they do nothing the system can affirm as toxic. So your behavior in this game of being toxic when someone is toxic to you has the reverse effect on helping other players.

Tl:Dr: Toxic gets flagged when you're reported. You get punished by the robot running the report system. No toxic speech makes robot not punish you; People reporting get flagged as abusing report system. Their reports are listed as invalid next time they report.

well then riot should spend its resources on things like this and Create a new System for situations like this. Bronze - gold is the highest player base in league and im sure its the one that makes them the most money... Why doesn't this company care about its biggest player base? one day people will eventually stop playing and they will have no one to blame but themselves

Oleandervine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=n ii t su j,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=agzO85xW,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-06-02T16:33:30.836+0000)

well then riot should spend its resources on things like this and Create a new System for situations like this. Bronze - gold is the highest player base in league and im sure its the one that makes them the most money... Why doesn't this company care about its biggest player base? one day people will eventually stop playing and they will have no one to blame but themselves

I'm pretty sure the unranked severely outnumber the ranked combined at all levels. And the punishment system in place does it's job quite well. It punishes based on behavior, and toxicity and retaliatory toxicity are both negative, bad behaviors that deserve punishment. You got in trouble because you retaliated with the exact same behavior that tilted you in the first place. The punishment system, and Riot, do not tolerate hateful, toxic behavior at all, so using such behavior to address your teammates is against that policy. It's as simple as that, and no one at any rank or prestige is immune to this policy.

Nik Nikerson2 votes

Yes, I have been in a game like that. And so have the majority of people who are talking to you. You situation isn't anything special. Most of us just handle it differently.

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

I'm all for defending yourself against bullies and whatever... but you're going to come across people in your life who are simple & plain lost causes. You will either run into someone extraordinarily stupid/crazy/things you won't have imagined. There's no point trying to argue with them. Just best to walk away and save yourself the aneurysm.

ViiLLAiN1 votes

{quoted}

I'm all for defending yourself against bullies and whatever... but you're going to come across people in your life who are simple & plain lost causes. You will either run into someone extraordinarily stupid/crazy/things you won't have imagined. There's no point trying to argue with them. Just best to walk away and save yourself the aneurysm.

the only walking away would be to quit league since i have no friends i play dynamic queue with and riot just continues to punish those who still try to play solo queue

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

No walking away simply means just move on. You defend yourself because of two reasons. Your ego being hurt and because you were enraged. Instead of lashing out or even bottling it up, just ignore it and move on. It's really not that hard. Just tell yourself "Wait.. why am I mad? Who the hell cares?" And you tell yourself this in real life; it'll save you a ton of stressful nights as well. You don't have to quit league. Just mute everyone. I'm all for bringing back Solo Q but it's not happening. This game is going downhill from here. But it doesn't change the fact Solo Q is not coming back.

ViiLLAiN1 votes

{quoted}

No walking away simply means just move on. You defend yourself because of two reasons. Your ego being hurt and because you were enraged. Instead of lashing out or even bottling it up, just ignore it and move on. It's really not that hard. Just tell yourself "Wait.. why am I mad? Who the hell cares?" And you tell yourself this in real life; it'll save you a ton of stressful nights as well. You don't have to quit league. Just mute everyone. I'm all for bringing back Solo Q but it's not happening. This game is going downhill from here. But it doesn't change the fact Solo Q is not coming back.

Why am i mad? Im stuck in a lost game where im forced to play with toxic trolls for 45 mins and theres nothing i can do about it. because if i leave i get banned even though i have every right to since teams wont ff,

Who cares? my LP cares and all the hours i spent trying to get that LP just so some asshole comes along and takes it away cuz he wants to be toxic troll afk etc

Just mute everyoone? how can i try to win and call for plays then ? doing nothing is the same as allowing yourself to lose and waste ur time.

All in all if im gonna be stuck with a bunch of assholes who want to waste our time im gonna give them a piece of my mind.

Getting in trouble for that shouldnt even be a thing

Nik Nikerson2 votes

It's not about defending yourself. It's about you being upset and lashing out. You just admitted to it. It's completely possible to defend one's self without raging/flaming others. You don't want to do that though. You want to take your frustrations out on someone, and give them a piece of your mind.

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