Boards›Player Behavior

Lets talk the ban system shall we?

BlueFire Mark II··5 votes·3,560 views

okay no toxicity here to me, riot, or anyone else.. keep this nice and civilized. the system itself- garbage. yes it does catch some but that doesn't mean much. now, i have had this specific account i believe two years now? and it just got perm banned after logging in a week of not playing. it gave me one- JUST ONE- game as example. note, i was currently honor two working to three and hadn't received a punishment in nearly an entire year, and have been only good since.

do NOT ask for my chat okay? i know it was not great there, i had a bad day and game and got a bit angry and lost it. yes i deserve somethin but considering ive been such a sportsmanlike player for about a year..?

so idk what do you guys think? if someone has been really good for nearly a year- is it okay to just straight perm ban them for an ordinary flame game? not tyler one flame caps every sentence and int bad- just casual flame bad.

in my opinion, it really isn't and its extremely unhealthy for the community. what do you guys think? and again- just overall thoughts not "you did something bad you deserve it" because if i lie to a parent i dont go to jail for life right? so thats an entirely unfair and unjust explanation and reasoning.

anyway, what do you guys think!? (P.s. downvoting because you think I'm just a toxic jerk who deserves it isn't doing you or anyone any good. Downvoting if you disagree strongly is okay, but actually read the post first lol, and i don't care about upvotes, but you are welcome to upvote if you want i suppose. Balance out the downvoters who don't actually read and care.) (The Downvotes just show the true toxicity of the game however, if you try bein nice and figure out somethin people just hate on you for it, but what's funny is the fact they downvote this just because it's talking about bans and assuming it's specially a toxic person asking for an appeal even though they know they deserve it when that's not the case here lol. Keep downvoting, just proves my point ^-^

-Blue out.[slayer-jinx-catface]

78 Comments

TrulyBland10 votes

if someone has been really good for nearly a year- is it okay to just straight perm ban them for an ordinary flame game?

Operating purely on that hypothetical? Depends on the amount of games played in that time. Obviously you shouldn't just have your punishment level reset because you didn't touch the game for a year, as an extreme example. Assuming normal frequency of games, no, that wouldn't be okay.

Returning from that hypothetical into the real world, however, the question remains whether that happens in the first place. If you don't want to discuss your case specifically, that's fine. Not being sarcastic here, I know how these forums can be when people share their logs. If you don't want to subject yourself to that, then that is absolutely understandable. But without that your argument that the system is "garbage" (great job at starting a civil discussion, btw) really has no leg to stand on.

BlueFire Mark II2 votes

I'm fine with my case specifically- so long as it isn't begging for chat logs and after not giving it because it's irrelevant then calling me toxic and deserving then i would not want to right? But overall yeah if it wasn't touched for a year but i play regularly. Avg.. 2 hours 4 days a week at least? And i got back to honor two. Whether that is me or not.. clealry some reformation has taken place, otherwise they or me wouldn't have honor 2 playing regularly. Buuut permanent for one game i got a bit mad.

The ban system does have statistics to know it's bad though. This example I'm having it a serious wtf moment. One game in a whole year after a 14 day of regular play results how? Not even a chat restriction between these. And hey, if people disagree that the BAN system (not punishment system as whole) is not broken when in my opinion it clearly is, that's fine! I can't change your mind myself. Normally i thought it was kinda reasonable but still kinda bad.. but OK.. now i just hate it. Not even because this was ME. I have other accounts anyway.. even if someone else made this to complain I'd get on their side and hate it.

Is it possible I'm lying? Yeah. What's the point? Literally nothing. I'm just here to discuss, lying would do no good since you guys can't do anything and only rito games can.

TrulyBland1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BlueFire Mark II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WhoREh4p,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-12-05T02:23:08.122+0000)

Is it possible I'm lying? Yeah. What's the point? Literally nothing. I'm just here to discuss, lying would do no good since you guys can't do anything and only rito games can.

And yet people consistently do it. I'm sorry, but if everything written on these forums was taken at face value "garbage" wouldn't even begin to describe how horrible it would be. But most of the time people's claims just don't hold up, and rather than "discussing" the system, all they want to do is paint it in a bad light. For what reason? I have absolutely no idea.

But it happens. And it makes it very hard to trust anything anybody says about their own punishment.

That doesn't mean I'm going to immediately assume somebody is lying, though. I'm willing to grant people the benefit of the doubt when they have no way of producing proof of a statement. A good example for that kind of statement would be your claim that you were behaving properly in the year leading up to this ban. There's no point in accusing you of lying about this, because it would not be falsifiable from your end. So I'm not going to question that, and I will try to operate under the assumption that what you are saying is true.

But what I have to question are things that people could prove; or at least support with much more tangible evidence. That is even more the case when there is the possibility for that person to merely misjudge the circumstances they are describing, rather than outright lie about them. A good example for that kind of statement would be your claim that the game you were banned for only contained "ordinary flame".

If all of what you are saying is true, I urge you to write a support ticket. But I see little point in discussing the system based on a (from my point of view) hypothetical that falls into the second category.

GatekeeperTDS6 votes

what do you guys think?

You should show us your cha...

do NOT ask for my chat okay?

You want people to agree with you without seeing what you were actually punished for. You might want to think about reforming your behavior rather than seeking blind validation.

BlueFire Mark II2 votes

this isnt about chat though? pay more attention really. i said this is about the general ban system not my chat log. i can have a bad chat log but should it be a permanent with all the things laid out ive mentioned? i really dont think so. so again, NO ASKIGN FOR CHAT. it does NOT help you in any way.

GatekeeperTDS5 votes

it does NOT help you in any way.

Oh, I didn't know this post was about me. I thought it was about you asking for help.

Yes, it "should" be permanent, because you have displayed an inability to reform after multiple punishments.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

Actually no. I didn't thank you for ignoring literally everything, being toxic to me as i said not to and not reading my post lol, clearly you can't take this seriously. If you can't take a thread seriously don't bother commenting. I did not have a punishment for a year and got honor 2 so yes i did reform from multiple punishments ;)

BlueFire Mark II2 votes

any toxicity will be ignored, please keep this civilized, no hate speech of any kind. we all have our opinions, and for me its that the ban system needs changed. (we are NOT speaking of the entirety of punishment system. JUST The permanent ban part of it. just a reminder.)

Arammus5 votes

uh... we kinda got the mods to make sure toxic comments/insults/hatespeech get removed.

BlueFire Mark II2 votes

yeah but it always shows anyway in these. not even kidding every one of these i made has toxicity

GatekeeperTDS3 votes

Please look up the definition of the word "sanctimonious."

BlueFire Mark II4 votes

Why? Why do i care about a word about hypocracy and devotion? What relevancy is that to this discussion friend?

ZackTheWaffleMan2 votes

It's a cool word. It's fun to use it in casual conversation.

BlueFire Mark II2 votes

Yeah it's a fine word, but should've been mentioned elsewhere due to the irrelevancy

Icy Hot Shoto1 votes

When was your last 14 day ban? If it was recent, then just one game of toxic behavior will get you perma'd, as it says on the card when you get a 14 day ban. And since you said the log that got you was bad and you deserved something, I'm inclined to believe the perma is fair without knowing what the log is or when your 14 day ban was.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

as i said, i havent done something for almost a year.. the last one was like end of december into january for the 14 duration. by now i had a 2 lvl honor

Saezio1 votes

as i said, i havent been punished for something for almost a year

there, fixed it for you. If you were positive/neutral for 1 year you wouldn't still be honour 2.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

E*[zombie-brand-mindblown]* XCUSE ME? do you know how hard riot makes it to climb honor after a punishment? Basically impossible. It's locked for a month at the least basically then yoi get like one checkpoint per month after that. It isn't easy, secondly, not everyone honors you every game to clomb very high.. thirdly you don't play 24/7. And much more reasons.

So yes it does take a long time buddy. Unless you can provide evidence it doesn't then I'm only going based off experience and what I've seen and learned.

Subdue1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BlueFire Mark II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WhoREh4p,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-05T16:32:56.172+0000)

E*[zombie-brand-mindblown]* XCUSE ME? do you know how hard riot makes it to climb honor after a punishment? Basically impossible. It's locked for a month at the least basically then yoi get like one checkpoint per month after that. It isn't easy, secondly, not everyone honors you every game to clomb very high.. thirdly you don't play 24/7. And much more reasons.

So yes it does take a long time buddy. Unless you can provide evidence it doesn't then I'm only going based off experience and what I've seen and learned.

I only played for the last 2 months of the last season, and in that time moved up from Honor 2, 1st checkpoint to Honor 3, 3rd checkpoint. (I got Honor 4 about a week after pre-season started). If you're moving at 1 checkpoint a month, it's because you're being validly reported and that is slowing down your progress.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

Honor 2+ is not equal to a lock and starting at zero. 3 checkpoints after a lock to 1 then 3 to 2.

2=/= 0 with a lock.

Subdue2 votes

[{quoted}](name=BlueFire Mark II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WhoREh4p,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-05T16:45:38.383+0000)

Honor 2+ is not equal to a lock and starting at zero. 3 checkpoints after a lock to 1 then 3 to 2.

2=/= 0 with a lock.

Right... the point was that I did 5 (almost 6) checkpoints in 2 months. You're saying you're gaining 1 checkpoint a month.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

Yes and I've tested it across multiple accounts and made sure there was no reports with bot games and such. After a punishment it is always super slow. On pbe i went to honor 5 near instant after release. After a punishment it took a long time to get to honor 2 again slightly faster but still long.

Subdue1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BlueFire Mark II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WhoREh4p,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-05T18:29:00.766+0000)

Yes and I've tested it across multiple accounts and made sure there was no reports with bot games and such. After a punishment it is always super slow. On pbe i went to honor 5 near instant after release. After a punishment it took a long time to get to honor 2 again slightly faster but still long.

One of the mods actually did the experiment with a 0 honor account. It took them 252 games over 172 days to reach Honor 2. That's roughly half the time it's taken you to get to the same point.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/yBXTyjAO-dishonorable-to-honor-2-edit-3-12219

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

Thst doesn't necessarily mean it's equal for everyone. Yes it could take half the time, but- BUT- you're also taking into account specifically games, I'm saying overall time. 4 days a week max, avg 2 hrs each of those days, sick days, vacation, too busy to play, and stuff also in the way. So when i say a year i mean until now, slightly under a year, including the actual 14 day itself into january, and keep in mind he is playing bots not PVP where people constantly report for the fun of it ot because they disliked you but really only they were reportable. You are leaving out a ton of information to make yourself look like you have a valid argument when you really don't..

Besides, honor doesn't do Jack squat anyway, rito doesn't care if you're honor 5 best player ever they'll still perm ban ya after one slip up game.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

So

  1. been pretty active
  2. Got back honor to 2
  3. One toxic game caused this, no other games listed.
  4. No insta ban words used
  5. Last punishment was nearly an entire year ago- (late december to jan)
  6. This doesn't have to be just hypothetically anyone, could be you putting yourself in this scenario
  7. Zero punishments or chat restrictions in that time. Not even leaver buster.
  8. What do you think? Fair or not. Don't shove my name on it and say i could be lying your opinions on me don't matter, just the matter in general- if this was anybody or yourself, is this fair. A PERMANENT ban keep in mind. Thanks for stoppin by to comment and enjoy your day!

(Edit: not sure why someone's wasting time to downvote something that has nothing to downvote for. If it was about me specifically maybe but.. idk people don't know how to use up and down votes here.)

Subdue3 votes

[{quoted}](name=BlueFire Mark II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WhoREh4p,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-12-05T03:41:33.541+0000)

So

  1. been pretty active
  2. Got back honor to 2
  3. One toxic game caused this, no other games listed.
  4. No insta ban words used
  5. Last punishment was nearly an entire year ago- (late december to jan)
  6. This doesn't have to be just hypothetically anyone, could be you putting yourself in this scenario
  7. Zero punishments or chat restrictions in that time. Not even leaver buster.
  8. What do you think? Fair or not. Don't shove my name on it and say i could be lying your opinions on me don't matter, just the matter in general- if this was anybody or yourself, is this fair. A PERMANENT ban keep in mind. Thanks for stoppin by to comment and enjoy your day!

(Edit: not sure why someone's wasting time to downvote something that has nothing to downvote for. If it was about me specifically maybe but.. idk people don't know how to use up and down votes here.)

Penalties are given based on frequency and severity. So, you can be infrequently, lightly toxic and you'll be fine. However, if you're frequently toxic, or you're severely toxic occasionally, you'll be hit with the penalties. In your case, you were hit with penalties at least 3 times before you finally reached a permanent ban.

If we take you at your word that your chat log showed "ordinary flame" rather than severe flame, then most likely you are frequently toxic. You can still gain honor even if you're validly reported, though it does slow down honor progression.

Most players are never toxic frequently or severely enough to receive any punishment, and your frequent toxic behavior negatively affects the experiences of those players. So, tasked with answering, do I think it's fair or not, I find myself considering whether inflicting you on those players is fair or not. From my perspective, and from Riot's, the answer is no. It is not fair players who can generally get along with each other to have you ruining their games with your flaming. So, given that you haven't reformed after multiple warnings, and given you don't dispute that you were toxic, I think your penalty is justified.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

Well again you don't need to talk about ME because then you worry about whether i am lying or not.. now, no it is not consistent. I said no punishments nearly a year, last one was late December early January. What about that tells you consistent? I even got back to honor 2, what about that is consistent? They listed only 1 game on card, not 2 like usual chat restrictions would. Again, what about that is CONSISTANCY. To me, it's nothing. There's also no ZT words so it isn't that either.

You don't have to agree but what I'm saying is how it is, just based on that you give your opinion, not based on if I'm lying or hypothetically i am consistent or anything, just based on what's listed what do you think? Because reading it off.. to me it's unfair and needs reverted. Beside, i made a whole nother account anyway. So if i really am toxic, I'd just end up chasing new players away by flaming in low levels. Which, I'm not because i reformed. Nobody is a saint who is never ever toxic ever. 1 game should not result in perma after nearly a year of good behavior. That's my opinion.

Subdue2 votes

[{quoted}](name=BlueFire Mark II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WhoREh4p,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-12-05T04:33:45.340+0000)

Well again you don't need to talk about ME because then you worry about whether i am lying or not.. now, no it is not consistent. I said no punishments nearly a year, last one was late December early January. What about that tells you consistent? I even got back to honor 2, what about that is consistent? They listed only 1 game on card, not 2 like usual chat restrictions would. Again, what about that is CONSISTANCY. To me, it's nothing. There's also no ZT words so it isn't that either.

You don't have to agree but what I'm saying is how it is, just based on that you give your opinion, not based on if I'm lying or hypothetically i am consistent or anything, just based on what's listed what do you think? Because reading it off.. to me it's unfair and needs reverted. Beside, i made a whole nother account anyway. So if i really am toxic, I'd just end up chasing new players away by flaming in low levels. Which, I'm not because i reformed. Nobody is a saint who is never ever toxic ever. 1 game should not result in perma after nearly a year of good behavior. That's my opinion.

You can still gain honor even when you're being validly reported, it just takes longer. Why Riot decided that's a good idea is beyond me, but I would guess it's because there are actually two separate systems that are being synced together in some way, which would make sense as people were getting penalized long before honor was introduced. Again, penalties are based on Frequency x Severity. Low Frequency, Low Severity might not get penalized, but any other combination definitely does. So, somewhere in there your story is not consistent. You may want to ask Riot for the stats on how often you're validly reported.

As for toxic players making new accounts, I agree that it's not ideal. Riot really should put more significant barriers to entry, such as requiring a phone number for account creation.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

I could ask for constancy but from past experience they go out of their way not to do anything for me ever. Rn they haven't responded for 5+ hours so that doesn't help. But yes frequency and severity exists, though for about a year i haven't actually gotten a punishment, so i don't know about being reported but i feel if i was toxic and was reported i woulda been banned since it would have been much closer to that previous punishment. Dunno, I'm trying to contact riot but getting no answer yet.. but yeah, their bans just ruin it for new players, they do need to do something about that.. even if it doesn't ruin them flame wise they're still having to deal with better players than them but a ton.

Kei1433 votes

The reform card only shows you 1-5 recent games as examples of unacceptable behavior, doesn't mean you were punished for 1 game alone. There's typically many games in the behavioral history that wasn't shown in the reform card. You can ask Riot support how many games you were validly reported.

A few things that could have happen in regards to the behavioral system giving you a permaban;

  1. You say you play a decent amount of games, but in Riot's eyes it's not that active and it wasn't enough games to drop a punishment tier.

  2. You think there's no ZT words, but there actually is. So you dropped a (or two) punishment tier but skipped punishment tiers and got straight to permaban.

  3. A known bug where the reform card has problems deciding which games to show you. Chosing between the most severe ZT game or the most severe ML game, it ends up showing your the most severe ML game instead.

  4. You were at the edge of dropping a punishment tier but just got punished and permabanned.

  5. There was a punishment error, but keep in mind the system is 99.9% accurate. But hey, you never know, this might be one of those 0.1% cases.

Regardless, we can help you understand the system, but we can't do anything to your account.

If I were to take a guess, I'd put my money on #2, where there were things you said that are part of the ZT phrases, but you didn't know about it.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

Thank you for posting options here but none of them are really good.. i know what ZT words are thanks and none were used. I mean, i don't like the ZT words in the first place.

Second, i don't see how an entire year of playing sportsmanlike would not drop a tier,

thirdly, idc if riots eyes don't see this as active but average 2 hrs for 4 days a week minimum is DEFINITELY active..

fourth, the system isn't actually 99.9% accurate, not sure where you got that but i can tell you it isn't.

Fifth, i should be the "0.1%" since this is absolutely ridiculous, I've been nice for a year, no punishments, lvl2 honor, i shouldn't get insta permed after 1 game.

6th, someone elses i saw did include multiple game chat logs, so it can.

I have been trying to ask riot things but they're ignoring me. No response for 6 to 7 hours so far. Which is failing to do the 1 thing they are supposed to but hey what can you do. The system banned me when i shouldn't have been banned, riot knows its unfair but doesn't want to deal with admitting it so they ignore me.. probably not true but seriously- they really need to respond...

Kei1431 votes

Ya, as I mentioned before, the reform card can show up to 5 games, but rarely does so. Riot has found that showing games past recent memory just ends up confusing other the punished player, so they opt not to show more than 5 recents games within the reform card.

99.9% accuracy is a Riot Tantram stat. You can go through his old posts and find his comment.

Out of curiosity, can you label the categories of ZT words so we know you didn't miss any? If you did, we can narrow down what caused your punishment.

Riot also response within 24-48 hrs. So 8 hrs is too soon in expecting a response. Remember not to bump your ticket, as that sends your ticket to the back of the queue, and you'll need to wait longer.

Lastly, which account was the one that you got banned on? I'd like to check the game history to verify the playtime.

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

Account was uh.. i believe it was in fact this one.. as for ZT words.. it's like killing related, racism, super bad stuff like that. As for the 99.9 well.. it's an automated system, I'm not sure he is able to entirely get perfect results off that. Calculation. Even so, that just means it detects a punishment, not that the level is always right. Anyway, feel free to check. It's fairly active, so i don't worry about playtime at all. ^-^

Careful though, things like op.gg are really screwy with the riot account thing they did. It isn't showing anything and the old name only shows up to a point.

MordridtheBlack2 votes

someone did a rough bit of maths on a different forum thread (don't ask me to find it as it was from either earlier this year or sometime last year, I can't remember)

they figured on average, it take somewhere around 300-500 games played without being reported validly to drop a punishment tier (please note a player can report you for anything, that does not mean that the report is valid)

now those numbers I gave are not concrete, from what I do remember about that forum thread one of the mods here looked at it and stated that there is no defined number to how many games have to be played before you drop a punishment tier

punishments do not go down if you don't play the game i.e. you could get to the 14 day suspension punishment, not play the game for 2 years, come back; and then get permabanned if you do/say something that would validate the punishment

BlueFire Mark II1 votes

3 to 5 hundred? (Yes not specific but anywhere around that makes MORE than enough sense) so, Well clearly that's either a lie, or i was unfairly banned, since i played a whole years worth of games, avg 2 hrs of games 4 days a week.

MordridtheBlack1 votes

again a forum mod did say in response to that post that there was no defined number of matches that were needed to be played on an account to drop a punishment tier

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