How to fix a broken system!

Reign of Sylas ·9/12/2017, 3:14:58 PM·1 votes·483 views

Hello all, Today is a new day. For some it's a day of learning, and for some it's a day of redemption. For others it's just cause chaos.

The reason I would like to talk to everyone is because the broken system currently inplace. It's called the tribunal or instant feedback system. This system is broken! It's promotes negativity and should be removed. Allow me to explain.

Imagine a world where duo and tri ques could not get away with murder. What a glorious day that would be! Or imagine how a feeder that goes 0-10 in 15mins gets away Scott free in ranked. Better yet imagine players who sole goals is to troll teemo top with spirit visage or bard top with no mastery both going 0-10+.

This is what the current system holds. It promotes negativity and sensitivity. In a world where freedom of speech used to mean something - now allowing a system to strip it away and demtermine without reason false information.

With this new honor system duo and trioques unite with false impressions. While the trioques troll and report anyone that looks at them wrong way while feeding trolling and then honoring each other poor Mr Solo is stuck taking then concenquences.

Ways to fix this system include:

  1. Remove reporting in general
  2. Reworking the honor system yet again
  3. Not allowing duo and flex que votes mean as much
  4. Fire majority of the Riot staff that promotes toxicity.
  5. Hire new invigorating support personal that are actually helpful to the clients instead just sucking away Riots money and customer data base
  6. With reporting being removed have a system that identifies trolls, feeders, and racism
  7. Have a new Elo or match making system that idenifies the correct level of play and match making ( how many times have seen such one sided games where team entirely outclasses)
  8. Think other ways to have conqeunces instead current now
  9. Completly take a look at how duo and trio ques affect the average solo player
  10. Rebalance each class and identify crit as a problem.

If these things was looked at I'm sure there would be no toxicity and we would go from number 1 toxic community down to a helpful and sincere community.

Thank you for your time, IMT Stray

10 Comments

Chermorg9/12/2017, 3:50:53 PM3 votes

I’ll address each point individually, even though some of your points interrelate:

  1. By removing reporting, you remove the ability to get data on “edge cases” - cases that are probably trolling/toxicity but that the automated system is not confident enough to issue a punishment. You will never have an automated system that has a 100% punish rate for all forms of toxicity, otherwise it will literally have to punish every single person.

  2. The honor system admittedly is not the best, but I think it’s a lot better now than it was before - it gives people who consistently receive high honor borders, although it’s still quite obscure and based on algorithms we have no clue how they work. I agree it really should be more public and have more of a basis, but I also understand that Riot knows that by publicizing how it works it can be abused easier.

  3. By “votes” I assume you mean surrender votes and/or reporting. For surrender votes, there is no really good way to do that - there’s 5 people voting so the valid amount of support is either 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, or 100%. For less people voting, the edge cases are 50%/75% (4 people), and 66% (3 people). The most reasonable cutoff for the surrender vote to pass is 70% - it allows the vote to pass with a minimum of 3 people (an absolute majority of the team), but if 5 people are still there requires a “supermajority” of 4 people on the team. If you’re referring to the reporting, it is already true that more than one report does absolutely nothing. The reports are handled similar to a Boolean flag - it’s either 1/0 (True/False): Has player been reported in this game? True if 1 (or more) reports, False if 0 reports.

  4. Which Riot staff specifically do you feel promote toxicity, and how so?

  5. “Invigorating support [personnel]” is very confusing. What do you feel are the current problems with Riot support, and how do you propose the support agents work to do better (instead of just suggesting firing everyone, why not offer some advice on how they could approve)?

  6. Again, there will never be a system that can punish 100% of behaviors with any decent accuracy, and as such reports will always be needed to identify and review edge cases. Further, gameplay toxicity (trolling/feeding) is sometimes very very subtle, and as such is better dealt with via manual review in many cases.

  7. The matchmaking system in League is based on a hidden skill level. Many people think they are not in the right skill level, and some people are right. Many people, however, think they’re much better than they actually are, and aren’t climbing because of other people, but then when you look at it they have about a 50/50 win/loss ratio in their current MMR. That’s a good way to see if someone’s where they need to be - if they win/lose 50% of their games, they’re statistically about the same skill as others in that MMR.

  8. What other consequences would you suggest? Riot has tried other levels of chat restriction and other shorter/longer term bans, but has found that almost everyone who went past the 3rd/4th level was getting permanently banned anyway. Riot simplified this system to remove toxic players sooner - the longer and more punishments you give people, the more chances they get to ruin games before they get permanently banned.

  9. In what way does two people being queued together (or three, or four) make any difference to you as a solo queue player?

  10. Riot is continuously balancing classes. If you have suggestions on balance, it’s best to take them to the Gameplay boards and suggest them there - Riot does actually look at those boards for ideas on how to improve the different mechanics.

I hope that some of these points have at least been addressed by my post, I know it’s long but I wanted to give you all the information I could.

yesnobanana9/12/2017, 5:20:38 PM1 votes
  1. Fire majority of the Riot staff that promotes toxicity.

i don't get people who suggest firing staff on the internet:

"i mean, you do a good job. But some guy on the internet says your'e promoting toxicity so fuck your career"

RallerenP9/12/2017, 7:50:30 PM1 votes

Imagine a world where duo and tri ques could not get away with murder. What a glorious day that would be!

Ooooh that's the one we're in. You see, in this system, groups have no more power than solos when it comes to punishments.

Or imagine how a feeder that goes 0-10 in 15mins gets away Scott free in ranked.

I won't lie, the system ATM sucks. But it gets better every day. It learns from reports what intentional feeding is, but it's very slow because so many people report others for inting when they aren't. It then has to try to sort the fake reports from the real ones, which is an entirely different problem.

Better yet imagine players who sole goals is to troll teemo top with spirit visage or bard top with no mastery both going 0-10+.

Teemo spirit visage top, and bard top are both valid picks. The things that would make such people trolls, are if they picked those champs with the intention of trying to lose.

This is what the current system holds.

No. You have no knowledge of the system, so why even make this post. Even the slightest amount of research could have resulted in a waaay better quality post.

It promotes negativity and sensitivity.

You could argue that, but you didn't really even try to do that, so why bother coming with a counter argument?

In a world where freedom of speech used to mean something

I think you're the one who doesn't know what freedom of speech is.

Freedom of speech allows you to not be legally charged for what you say, but it doesn't protect you from all consequences.

now allowing a system to strip it away and demtermine without reason false information.

I take it you've been permabanned? Amazingly enough, you still have your freedom of speech. Isn't it great?

With this new honor system duo and trioques unite with false impressions.

I'm having a hard time deciphering this. What false impressions? It seems like you're the only one with false impressions (of how the system works).

While the trioques troll and report anyone that looks at them wrong way

Luckily, no one has ever, nor will ever get punished for looking at someone else funily. They might report you, sure, but that report doesn't really matter if it's thrown out.

wrong way while feeding trolling and then honoring each other poor Mr Solo is stuck taking then concenquences.

Poor mister solo takes no consequences if he is innocent.


Chermog has already broken down and debunked the rest with some very valid points, so i'll stop here.

zPOOPz9/12/2017, 8:16:01 PM1 votes

In a world where freedom of speech used to mean something - now allowing a system to strip it away and demtermine without reason false information.

Every time someone invoked the freedom of speech's name in vain when referring to a PRIVATE institution, Uncle Sam sheds a tear. RIP education.

[cass-cry]

Zaleras9/14/2017, 7:48:38 AM1 votes

I know a lot of people have already commented and given their response to all of the suggestions you've made on how to improve the game and community but I thought I would throw my two cents in for fun. I'll start at the top and work my way through the post. All responses I have are entirely my own opinion so feel free to ignore them, as I'm sure most people will, and nothing I say is meant to be offensive or a slight towards you, it's just how I feel about the suggestions and examples you have given. And for the sake of being nice I'll ignore the missing words and spelling/grammatical errors I see along the way. Also I'll be putting paragraphs each time you did so its easier to follow along with the Original Post (OP)

I understand how you think its a new day of learning, redemption, or chaos, and I see where you intend for people to learn. I see no offer of redemption only chaos. I'll cover that a bit more in a minute.

The Tribunal system hasn't been active for quite some time now, if I remember correctly it's been gone since around May of 2015, and the Instant Feedback System (IFS) is actually much better and faster at sorting through all reports and implementing punishments. I will grant you the system is not perfect, but nothing is. The programmers and staff are, I'm assuming, working on it fairly consistently if not constantly to improve performance and accuracy.

Just because someone goes 0-10 in their lane does not inherently mean they are feeding. It is a possibility that they were counter picked, constantly ganked, or just not as skilled in the game as you would like them to be. While it does happen that people will feed because they can't play the champion who they want, don't get the lane they want, or just because something happened that upset them the slightest little bit, it's not always the case.

I don't see how the current system promotes either negativity or sensitivity. As other people have pointed out, if you want to use the free speech argument, please actually read the first amendment to find out exactly what you're arguing. Also understand that when you downloaded, installed, created an account, and logged into the game you were given at least one instance, if not more, where you agreed to the Terms of Service (ToS) and End User License Agreement (EULA) where you agree to certain restrictions on what can and cannot be said as well as how you should act in game, I.E. Summoner's Code. As far as the determinations without reason or false information, I have said the system is not perfect. But the instances of false reports getting serious punishments, in my opinion since I don't have access to all the records or reports, have gone down with the implementation of the new system.

The new honor system has nothing to do with the report system, so it seems more like you have an issue with the Duo/Trio queuing system. If the honor system works in the same way the previous system did in the ways of vote weights then it actually doesn't promote the premade parties to vote for each other in the sense that repetitive vote from the same person hold less value in quick succession or if queued together. I see no consequences to being to solo queued player in those situations. If you want the honors then be a team player, make calls/play with and for the team, don't tilt and start going downhill and even if you're not in the premade party then you have good odds of being honored.

  1. Remove reporting in general - The worst idea I have ever heard of besides certain election results. It's like suggesting we should remove 911 from the United States because it causes people to commit crimes just so people will have an excuse to call. People have a problem with the toxicity in games and have the ability to report people for it, same goes for people who troll, afk/leave, grief, and the more uncommon one ,but I believe is still on the list, assisting the enemy team. Now imagine if you will, a world where anyone can say whatever they want, afk wherever they want, buy six pairs of boots and continue to attack creeps so they are not actually afk, or harass the poor Mr. Solo because they didn't queue with them, and no one can say anything about it. It would kill the community, people would realize what they could get away with, create new account to test the waters and see what the limits of the system's automatic detection are and exploit it.
  2. Honestly doubt its a priority on this list so not sure why it's number two. This has just been redone, you have to give it more time before you can say that it's and issue within the community
  3. I'm assuming here you mean not allowing Duo and flex queue votes to mean as much for the honor and reporting system. If that is the case then I have already explained that the honor system should already take that into consideration, and since the introduction of the IFS all reports are weighted the same no matter the queue status.
  4. I don't know any of the staff personally nor have I personally seen any promotion of toxicity so I can't comment on this one. I don't doubt there are cases where it's happened and/or people see a harsh criticism of a post where the staff went a little too far and got carried away. If there are cases of this happening I'm sure there are ways to report it so it can be reviewed, and if you're one of the people who say "Why bother reporting it? They're an employee there so who's going to do anything about it?" then you have the wrong mindset.
  5. Hiring new support personnel always sounds like a good idea, but rarely is. It's much better to work with the people who are already there and familiar with everyone and how everything works than hire someone new that has to learn everything, while at the same time possibly upsetting the person they are hired to work with or even replace. That hurts the work force more than it helps and would slow down the support system more than most people would think.
  6. Again reiterating the removal of the reporting system is a highly flawed and horribly bad idea, a system that automatically scans all chats for racism is a great idea in my opinion. I know it would take a lot of time to program everything that would need to be scanned for, acronyms, leet speak versions, abbreviations, and the like, and it would not be able to be done in real time unless Riot has some super powerful servers to host the scanning program on to scan every game going on across the globe. It's more logical that it would take chat logs from each game and scan the text after everything was done and either submit a report itself or administer punishment if there was enough evidence in a given log. Just my example of how that could be handled, though I don't know how realistic it is.
  7. The Elo/MMR systems have been tweaked a few times that I can remember, but like every other system, it will never be perfect or able to please everyone. There will be slight variations in people's skill level, whether its from lack of practice, exhaustion/alertness, server ping, computer issues, more practice than normal so they do better, playing with friends, and so on. Also one sided games happen in every skill level of every competitive type game. You can watch professional players struggle against some teams, steam roll others, then go back and forth with the same teams. Every game will be different, sometimes its the players, sometimes its the champions, sometimes its skill level.
  8. Other consequences sounds like a good idea, but there are no suggestions in the OP. Deranking sounds good in theory but as someone else pointed out it is a very temporary punishment since you can just play games to get back to where you were. If the offense is serious enough maybe a ban from the current season of ranked, but at that point it may as well just be a ban since person will most likely just make another account to avoid the actual punishment, as I'm sure most people do anyway.
  9. They have taken a look at how solo players have been affected in the past, which is why we have the new match making system where you choose what role you want or are willing to play. In my experience as a solo player this has made a large improvement for not only getting the role I actually want, but actually making me feel like i can queue as a solo player without being hindered. Would love to hear you suggestions on improvements they could make.
  10. I agree some things need to be re-balanced, but I'm not sure how critical strike chance/damage is a problem. In my opinion there are a lot of builds that should not work with champions in the fact they end up with far more power than I think is intended, I.E. full Ability Power (AP) builds on some Attack Damage (AD) champions and the reverse, full tank build on assassins giving them far more survive ability than they should while not limiting the assassination potential. Again just some example I have, but I'll reserve some of my thoughts on balancing some things for a different topic.

A lot of the things you think should be looked at already have been looked at and drastically improved in some instances. League of Legends is an online game where people can hide behind the anonymity of the internet, there will never be no toxicity, its the same for every competitive/cooperative game there is, its just a sad but simple fact that we have to live with. The best way to lower the toxicity is to use the report feature when you see it, and not to contribute to it yourself. And I'm sure there are helpful and sincere people in the community, but those people are rarely highlighted, or even want to be, because the reputation of the community makes it so hard to find them.

I know it's a long post but if you made it this far then I hope you found it informative and thank you for reading. Zaleras O/