The 'KKK' clan tag IS offensive.

Extasios·May 3, 2016·310 votes·17,926 views

What is fun in burning people alive because they were born different? It's getting pretty annoying to see everyone with such clan tags.

"This is why toxicity in this game is out of control, when we have people honestly defending and supporting hate groups. Why is it honestly so difficult for people to be decent human beings?" -Oleandervine ^ Couldn't be more representative of the current situation.

EDIT: RIOT rather close the discussion than do something about it, typical.[zombie-brand-facepalm]

204 Comments

OleandervineMay 3, 201657 votes

This thread needs to be shut down. I seriously do not understand all of you people that are supporting a hate group by validating their acronym. Oh my god, you people seriously need to re-evaluate your lives if you actually sit here and justify why it's ok for this acronym to be allowed. This acronym, the KKK, is a racially charged hate group that murders people, burns their homes and yards, and consistently spreads ignorant messages and hate speech. Supporting them, no matter how trolling or coy the club may be by not actually being named Ku Klux Klan is just offensive to human nature and all of you people supporting this just need to check out of here and get yourself some counseling.

Julius EvolaMay 3, 20168 votes

maybe people need to spend less time judgeing others. maybe I am offended by the name Muhammad. you don't see me banning to remove children named Muhammad from my classroom? you see the hypocrisy? focus on yourself and your own game why should names bother you you have the option to turn off summoner names

OleandervineMay 3, 201631 votes

[{quoted}](name=UGLY FEMINIST,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OVoRxQQ8,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2016-05-03T16:56:02.295+0000)

maybe people need to spend less time judgeing others. maybe I am offended by the name Muhammad. you don't see me banning to remove children named Muhammad from my classroom? you see the hypocrisy? focus on yourself and your own game why should names bother you you have the option to turn off summoner names

Thing is, Muhammed isn't an offensive name. Muhammed is a common Arabic name, and the name of the Muslim prophet, but there is no understood hatred attached to the name. ISIS is a hate group. Westboro Baptist Church is a hate group. Neo Nazis are a hate group. So is the KKK. Deliberately taking a name that corresponds with a hate group is not the same at all as taking a name that you as one person may dislike. Banning said hate groups from appearing in diverse communities is eliminating hatred and subgroups that foster hatred from the larger community and benefits humanity as a whole.

TrulyBlandMay 3, 201612 votes

Interestingly enough, the muhammed analogy (even though badly chosen) actually made me a lot more confident in my stance.

Thing is, you can make it a way more interesting analogy, just by instead using the name Adolf; and instead of looking at the name in general and banning it from classrooms, think about somebody using it as a username and whether you would disallow them from having that username.

I'm not entirely sure how frequent the name is in the US... in Germany it's still fairly common (though for obvious reasons, the frequency dropped quite a bit). Despite it just being a name, I'd argue that the name Adolf itself carries a very negative connotation. When you hear it, you will think of the "famous" Adolf. Just like when you read the acronym KKK, you think of the "famous" KKK. But ultimately just like Adolf could be the name of anybody, the acronym KKK can stand for a lot of things.

This isn't like with words like f%%%ot or n%%%er, which are the exact same words that are negatively connotated. Those words remind you of those words, not of different words that kinda look the same. Whatever these words are used for now, these exact same words have a history. But acronyms are more or less just names, possibly standing for very different things that may literally have nothing to do with the thing you associate them with.

TheDeviceMay 3, 20168 votes

{quoted}

But acronyms are more or less just names, possibly standing for very different things that may literally have nothing to do with the thing you associate them with.

And this is where you fall flat on your face (actually the whole argument is fail tbh). Now the name Adolf should not be held in as much animosity as the actual full name of Adolf Hitler. Your argument is closer to the analogy of somebody using the name Adolf Hitler rather than just Adolf. The name (in your mind) is just a name but the reality is that that name is held in the highest of contempt for those with any morals at all due to something called... reality.

But the reason why your argument is completely invalid is because its simply a non-equivalent.

And again, this is why no moral human being would name their fucking kid or their business, club or whatever, Adolf Hitler. Just like nobody in the REAL WORLD would ever name their business with the acronym KKK (albeit possibly a foreign company/group).

TrulyBlandMay 3, 20167 votes

Your argument is closer to the analogy of somebody using the name Adolf Hitler and just Adolf.

No. We're not arguing about an actual Club called "Ku-Klux Klan". We're arguing about a club-tag "KKK". In my eyes that's the same difference as between a full name and a first name. The entire point is that there is an undeniable ambiguity.

And to further go on about how acronyms and names are essentially the same thing: For startes: The second half of acronym means name, and the very first thing Wikipedia says about acronyms is "An acronym is a word or name formed as an abbreviation from the initial components in a phrase or a word".

You say "the reason why your argument is completely invalid is because its simply a non-equivalent." Then try to explain why. The entire reason why I'm going for this specific analogy, is because there I do not lack the ability to relate. A felt 80% of what I learned in non-science classes in school was how fucking horrible the Nazis were. We learned it in English, German, French, History, Religion, and on and on the list goes. I'd be willing to bet that terminology from nazi Germany is about as heavily connotated for Germans as terminology from that specific time of US history is for americans... I suppose I could be wrong though.

Edit: Either I didn't read it first time, or you edited it in later... But to clarify: a lot of people will name their child Adolf. Obviously not Hitler... but there are obviously a lot of family members that are named Adolf, and since a lot of children are named in memory of grandfathers and the likes, it's obvious that people will still name their kids Adolf. And not because they're "no moral human being", but simply because they are aware that it is simply a name, and they're not naming their child after Adolf Hitler, but after somebody that meant a lot to them personally. Because symbolism depends on context. And personal context always outweighs cultural context when it comes to chosen names.

StickyOctopiMay 3, 201641 votes

It's just a letter repeated 3 times dude. If that offends you, you must get triggered a lot.

kaleb bartlettMay 3, 201638 votes

{quoted}

It's just a letter repeated 3 times dude. If that offends you, you must get triggered a lot.

Don't know if trolling or just ignorant.

NarasimhaMay 3, 201622 votes

Probably trolling, but to be fair, he's technically not wrong. It really is just 3 letters. It follows the same logic as "People with the clan tag NSA are working for the government."

Chaotic ReksMay 3, 201617 votes

"People with the clan tag NSA are working for the government."

but what if they are

HethaleanMay 3, 20165 votes

What word or acronym isn't 'just # letters'? Does that mean any word or acronym no matter the cultural significance doesn't mean anything?

NarasimhaMay 3, 20167 votes

Any object only has as much value as what you give it. If you choose to make those letters stand for something, then it will. If you choose to ignore it, then it means nothing to you.

SzunrayMay 3, 20165 votes

This line of reasoning does not work in any level of society. Wear your red-white-and black swastika, and explain to your teacher/ boss/ lawyer/ mom/ employees that it's really just a symbol that people assign meaning to and I assure you, nobody will be having your shit that day. And for good reason.

NarasimhaMay 3, 20163 votes

It's not red and black, but I DO wear a swastika. And why shouldn't I? It's a Hindu symbol, is it not? Doesn't matter to me what others view it as.

DatalessMay 3, 201610 votes

{quoted}

It's not red and black, but I DO wear a swastika. And why shouldn't I? It's a Hindu symbol, is it not? Doesn't matter to me what others view it as.

Just nitpicking, but the symbol of which you're referring is reversed in direction so no, it's actually not a Swastika. The Swastika is a distortion of a traditionally sacred symbol. If you are, however actually wearing the symbol in it's pro-Nazi version I strongly suggest never going to Germany.

XBigRonXMay 3, 201636 votes

[deleted]

superylMay 3, 201691 votes

Maybe his name is Nate Higgers and hes a really nice guy irl

TheSequelsRBadMay 3, 20168 votes

Maybe, but if so his parents are messed up irl as well.

SSJTribeMay 3, 201632 votes

Robert and Jane Higgers just liked the name Nate, and did not think of the social consequences.

HoodwinkMay 3, 201654 votes

and he's in the kool kids klub

Moulin RougeMay 3, 201631 votes

That actually is a thing? O.o

Probably a bunch of suburban 13 year olds...

RagarenMay 3, 201614 votes

Yeah I've seen them before, call themselves kotton kandy klub or something...

Correction Kool kids Klub.

Maximum MordeMay 3, 201631 votes

What's wrong with the Knicker Kicker Kids?

P.S. Offense is taken, not given.

MVDuneCatsMay 3, 201613 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OVoRxQQ8,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-05-03T12:58:05.457+0000)

P.S. Offense is taken, not given.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurts me", and other lies we tell ourselves.

trash sionMay 3, 201616 votes

It's just a club tag. You're just assuming it refers to the racist group. Even if it does, there's no reason they shouldn't be allowed to use it. It's just three letters, which only have the connotation you give them.

HethaleanMay 3, 201621 votes

While normally solid reasoning, there are things that hold too much cultural significance to ignore. The same can be said for pretty much any word in any language. It's all changing context. Pretty much all language is connotation that you, yourself, apply in assisting in interpreting what the message intends to say. That being said things like racial slurs could also be defended with the same logic that you applied.

trash sionMay 3, 20164 votes

I assume you're trying to imply that I don't defend racial slurs and other toxic language with this same logic because they're more extreme... but I do. The only reason I don't make posts about bans being nonsensical is because when you agree to the ToS, you also agree to abide by Riot's rules regarding communication and conduct between players. On a matter of premise, though, I do find that racial slurs and toxic language shouldn't be punishable.

HethaleanMay 3, 20165 votes

No, I wasn't implying anything of your intent. Just pointing out the ambiguous nature of saying something is 'just # letters'. There is no word in any written language that isn't just an aggregation of letters (symbols that comprise the written language), and with any living language, meanings applied to any given group of letters in a given order (aka word) is ever changing thus giving it new meaning as time passes.

For instance, defecate used to mean to purify something owning it's etymology to Latin defaecat (cleared of dregs). I would say that the way we use it now is not very similar to its previous meaning(s).

EDIT: While I agree that some things are just words/acronyms, I struggle to find the dividing line philosophically when one's message goes towards clearly doing nothing but harm to people with whom that person is communicating. That being said some things are clearly more in that field (racial slurs, sexist comments, etc)

TrulyBlandMay 3, 20164 votes

I'd say the most important dividing line would be ambiguity. There are a lot of grey areas... but acronyms are inherently ambiguous. You cannot maintain the same information density when you condense arbitrarily long words into a single letter.

But there's another dividing line... The meaning of words might change over time... but over the course of a small amount of time, that change is very small. The meaning of one word won't be altered completely by tomorrow. And that in turn means that words that were once used as slurs still carry that connotation simply by their history.

An acronym on the other hand doesn't really have a histoy in that sense, and also is not limited to small changes in meaning at a time. If by tomorrow a live-changing invention is made, that - unfortunate as it is - consists of three words, each beginning with a K, the acronym KKK suddenly has a different meaning that is completely off from the original meaning.

I won't voice my opinion on whether I think 'KKK' in particular is acceptable as a clan-tag, though... at least not when it comes to clans on the NA-server, since I lack the cultural "background" to judge that. I simply don't have that strong of an association connected to those letters.

Edit: The only scenario for me that I can imagine coming close to KKK for americans, would be someone using SS or maybe HH as a clan-tag... but even if it was less ambiguous, like HEIL, or something like that, I don't think I would report it. It might make me a bit uncomfortable, but unless it's 100% unambigous that the intention of the tag was to mimic that acronym, I wouldn't really think much of it.

CIickTheLanternMay 3, 201615 votes

You don't know for sure what they're referring to, it's just 3 letters. There is a first amendment for a reason.

legionnaire99May 3, 201639 votes

The first amendment has its limits you know

Spanked eGirlMay 3, 201665 votes

{quoted}

The first amendment has its limits you know

The first amendment is freedom of speech, but the platform(League of Legends) on which you use said speech doesnt have to allow it.

AbusiveEmuMay 3, 201641 votes

The First Amendment -freedom of speech- protects you from your government punishing a person or attempting to restrict a person by saying something they don't approve of. It does not give the power to say whatever someone wants whenever they want.

dradio1May 3, 20164 votes

https://xkcd.com/1357/

It Hertz When IPMay 3, 201637 votes

You'd be surprised how tiny the percentage of Americans that know that is.

VardaMay 3, 201614 votes

Also Freedom is an interesting concept. Freedom does not me "without restriction". A fish is free when in the confines of water. (Would a fish say they are not free because they cannot go on land?). Therefore freedom of speech does not mean anything goes, but yet there are some restrictions.

Philosoraptor out. Anivia

Death by KaynMay 3, 201612 votes

Don't you mean Klan tag? In all seriousness, Riot really needs to incorporate some function in which this is reportable, similar to offensive summoner names.

AutomatisMay 3, 20165 votes

Under most circumstances we would have to accept the unfortunate truth of free speech and assembly. I may not defend their ideals but I defend their right to have them.

Even if its a joke its really scummy and I wouldn't associate myself with such a clan. I would have serious concerns about anybody that did.

However! Thankfully Riot can regulate this shit since its their game, if they cared to...

McKeifusMay 3, 20168 votes

No no no. The 1st amendment only protects against the GOVERNMENT of the United States of America limiting or suppressing your right to express your opinions - most specifically with regard to criticism of said governmental body. "Congress shall make no law....".

It does not prohibit private parties from controlling the tone and content of written and oral communication inside their own organizations. That is, Riot can ban or prohibit any speech they want, because it is a private company, and they own the boards, the servers, and the client. And as long as it's in the ToS, there is no legal recourse against it.

Riot can and should make every effort to stamp out racist and otherwise hateful communication in their game.

AutomatisMay 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No no no. The 1st amendment only protects against the GOVERNMENT of the United States of America limiting or suppressing your right to express your opinions - most specifically with regard to criticism of said governmental body. "Congress shall make no law....".

It does not prohibit private parties from controlling the tone and content of written and oral communication inside their own organizations. That is, Riot can ban or prohibit any speech they want, because it is a private company, and they own the boards, the servers, and the client. And as long as it's in the ToS, there is no legal recourse against it.

Riot can and should make every effort to stamp out racist and otherwise hateful communication in their game.

Um, which is what I said?

However! Thankfully Riot can regulate this shit since its their game, if they cared to...

BestAsheNigeriaMay 3, 20163 votes

Just earlier I had someone on my team in a ranked match with the name "Waffenschutzstaf" (he means "Waffenschutzstaffel" aka "SS") and the clan tag "ZYKLN". I had the impression this player is just trying to be edgy, but I still reported his summoner name and clan tag. Trolling people with your summoner name is one thing, but all these racist and nazi references go a bit too far.

If you don't know what "Waffenschutzstaffel" stands for, go read the Wikipedia entry. I guess we all know what "ZYKLN" means in this context.

Gnawr xdMay 3, 20162 votes

I mean, if, IF they were to remove the KKK clan tag, then, to be fair, they would have to remove other offensive names aswell, such as the blackpanthers, nazis, and other groups of this nature. You probably didn't think of that though, because you think this game only caters to YOUR needs and no one elses.

TheDeviceMay 3, 20166 votes

{quoted}

I mean, if, IF they were to remove the KKK clan tag, then, to be fair, they would have to remove other offensive names aswell, such as the blackpanthers, nazis, and other groups of this nature. You probably didn't think of that though, because you think this game only caters to YOUR needs and no one elses.

Why would anyone have a problem with them removing the clan tag nazis from the game? I'm all for that.

Blackpanthers... idk why that would be offensive really. I mean the group wasn't going around killing innocent people by the masses where they? Maybe they were a bit extreme but I doubt anyone holds them anywhere near along the same moral bar as the KKK.

so... unless you just had no fucking clue about history or the real world then sure.

Gnawr xdMay 3, 20163 votes

Black Panthers, sure, they started out as a fight for equality. However, the acts they have performed recently have made it so that most of society considers them a hate-group.

But that doesn't really matter, man up, don't get triggered by everything you see. If you can't do this, then there is nothing to do, because babies like this will just find something else to complain about and call offensive.

TheDeviceMay 3, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Black Panthers, sure, they started out as a fight for equality. However, the acts they have performed recently have made it so that most of society considers them a hate-group

I had no idea. This sounds serious.

How many have they killed so far?

Gnawr xdMay 3, 20162 votes

lots, now stop getting triggered by everything

TheDeviceMay 3, 20167 votes

{quoted}

lots, now stop getting triggered by everything

More like none. Thanks bye.

"Triggered" lol. I remember when I used to use words everyone else used to seem cool also.

Gnawr xdMay 3, 20162 votes

I don't think it's a cool word, triggered and anything related to the saying (i.e. trigger warning) is completely retarded. I use it in a satirical sense, now stop getting offeneded by everything

TheDeviceMay 3, 20165 votes

{quoted}

I don't think it's a cool word, triggered and anything related to the saying (i.e. trigger warning) is completely retarded. I use it in a satirical sense, now stop getting offeneded by everything

You sound far more offended than I do. I'm simply stating facts while you reply with fotm words like "triggered".

ShifuneMay 3, 20162 votes

I see no reason that people shouldn't be allowed to use KKK. Just because you get offended by it doesn't mean it shouldnt be allowed. The only way I see that it wouldn't be allowed would be if they were intentionally using it to be offensive. There are plenty of combinations that kids come up with using "KKK." Just because you take offense to one instead on the anagram does not mean that every other option shouldn't even be allowed.

-Le black guy who isn't the slightest bit offended. Although I seem to be in the minority of blacks who doesn't care about racism and has never taken offense from anything racist.