Riot support just closed my ticket

Eat My Axes·Apr 10, 2018·94 votes·28,910 views

Alright, so basically I got perma banned, wait im not going to ask for sympathy or anything. I have to point this out because it’s part of the story. So, a while back. My account was compromised and suspended for 14 days, no problem. I did the account recovery procedure and got it lifted ( this happened around October 19th 2017 the day it got suspended) now I got perma’d and told Riot support I was never suspended, so why didn’t I get a suspension. I got 1 but it was lifted, they say no it was never lifted blah blah blah, that was your 3rd warning. ( which it really was lifted and I’m about to set it to stone that it was lifted with undeniable proof) so, I say ok, if it wasn’t lifted explain this: https://i.imgur.com/Y3gOy2O.jpg Yepp, those games I played were during my supposed 14 day suspension that was never lifted apparently. And I told them to explain this please and they just closed the ticket without saying anything, found it quite rude, was anxious to hear what they would say.

UPDATE They closed my follow up ticket asking for a response.

EDIT I also manually had to receive my end of season awards, which I assume I didn’t autmatically recieve due to the automated system thinking I was suspended recently EVIDENCE https://imgur.com/gallery/qTY0i I don’t think I would’ve recieved them if my 14 day suspension was valid. Cheers HUGE EDIT Perma ban was lifted big shout out to Riot Verdaloth for understanding, also thanks for the support boys.

87 Comments

RiotVerdalothApr 10, 201836 votes

I looked into this case and there seems to have been a misunderstanding and unclear circumstances that happened.

The original reach out to us was in regards to a compromise that happened to your account which we verified did happen. During the same time, a 2 week suspension was placed by the IFS. When you wrote in about the compromise, we locked it proactively to protect it from the compromiser and overrode the 2 week suspension that was placed at around the same time. Once we verified that you were the original owner, we unlocked the proactive suspension and reset your password.

There was an investigation into whether the behavior in the logs was warranted during the period of compromise and decided that the suspension would remain. This is where we messed up and didn't add the 2 weeks back to your account after removing the proactive suspension. In the tickets, we don't see a record of us telling you the suspension was incorrectly placed and lifted and those interactions should be in your emails for reference.

This is the normal case of an escalated penalty and since your previous suspension by IFS was a 2 week, a permanent was the next in line.

Jesus is SaviorApr 10, 201835 votes

{quoted}

This is where we messed up and didn't add the 2 weeks back to your account after removing the proactive suspension.

Since you messed up, you should own up to your mistake and reduce his suspension to 2 weeks. People generally take drastic measures when they know a permaban is their next punishment (to the point that some people won't use chat at all). You messed up and gave this player the illusion that he was safe. He would have played differently if he knew he was on his last strike.

NocturnalSheildApr 10, 201812 votes

Bah if you have to have a sword of damacles hanging above you to be a decent person then riot doesnt want you in the first place.

Jesus is SaviorApr 10, 201811 votes

{quoted}

Bah if you have to have a sword of damacles hanging above you to be a decent person then riot doesnt want you in the first place.

The same actions that net you a 10 game chat restriction will also net you a permanent ban if it is your last strike. It can be very minor (but repeated) things.

And this player wasn't even the one who earned the 2-week ban. The person who stole his account was.

AeroWaffleApr 10, 20186 votes

From the way I read Verdaloth's response here,

When you wrote in about the compromise, we locked it proactively to protect it from the compromiser and overrode the 2 week suspension that was placed at around the same time. Once we verified that you were the original owner, we unlocked the proactive suspension and reset your password. There was an investigation into whether the behavior in the logs was warranted during the period of compromise and decided that the suspension would remain.

It was the OP that earned the 2-week punishment. Riot applied a shield-ban when OP said his account was compromised. That shield-ban overwrote the 2-week punishment ban. So when they removed the shield ban his account was completely un-banned even though they should have reapplied the remainder of the 2-week.

And that's where the mistake was, they forgot to place the 2-week back onto the account once the account was secure.

Jesus is SaviorApr 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}

It was the OP that earned the 2-week punishment. Riot applied a shield-ban when OP said his account was compromised.

I'm pretty sure it went down like this:

Thief earned a 2 -week ban
OP wrote in a ticket about stolen account
Riot turned 2-week ban into permanent ban to protect the account from the thief
Riot investigated the logs and determined the 2-week ban was justified ("you are responsible for the behavior of your account even if you're not the one playing it")
Riot reset the password and removed the permanent ban, but forgot to replace the 2-week ban

It never actually says anywhere who earned the ban. But considering the 2-week ban happened "around the same time it was compromised" it's pretty safe to assume the account was stolen and then abused by the thief because "who cares it's not mine."

Eat My AxesJul 12, 20181 votes

I know I'm a couple months late, sorry,

But what makes it worse is that they didn't even say this "you are responsible for the behavior of your account even if you're not the one playing it". Legit, so I just assumed it was lifted for good. Which obviously misled me.

AMYS GRAVEApr 10, 20183 votes

And that's where the mistake was, they forgot to place the 2-week back onto the account once the account was secure.

And in so doing they ensured that the OP wasn't fairly aware of the consequences of further infractions. Not saying the OP was or wasn't deserving of punishment here but they should not have been misled about the consequences (2 weeks vs. perma) of their actions.

Sp33d Zer0Apr 10, 20183 votes

This is a case that, while I personally don't condone toxic behavior (I am very vocal on the player behavior board against it), I think it is correct to rebuke the permanent ban due to the fact that they had no way of knowing they were under scrutiny for toxic behavior due to the nature of the suspension not being reinstated. A 2 week ban for this instance is fitting for the scenario as you have decided they did deserve a ban for this particular case - but this is a case of no actual 2 week ban jumping to a permanent.

VenomarApr 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I looked into this case and there seems to have been a misunderstanding and unclear circumstances that happened.

The original reach out to us was in regards to a compromise that happened to your account which we verified did happen. During the same time, a 2 week suspension was placed by the IFS. When you wrote in about the compromise, we locked it proactively to protect it from the compromiser and overrode the 2 week suspension that was placed at around the same time. Once we verified that you were the original owner, we unlocked the proactive suspension and reset your password.

There was an investigation into whether the behavior in the logs was warranted during the period of compromise and decided that the suspension would remain. This is where we messed up and didn't add the 2 weeks back to your account after removing the proactive suspension. In the tickets, we don't see a record of us telling you the suspension was incorrectly placed and lifted and those interactions should be in your emails for reference.

This is the normal case of an escalated penalty and since your previous suspension by IFS was a 2 week, a permanent was the next in line.

Doesn't the fault fall on you guys for not following the discipline precedure then? If you issued a two week at the same time an account was compromised it would appear that the ban was to protect the account or caused during the compromise. If you fail to reinstate the ban and clarify what went on, then you messed it up. You basically just skipped over the entire purpose of the two week suspension which is "hey this is your last chance, get your shit together or else".

I'm not defending OPs behaviour or the validity of his ban, but if he never got his due warning and what happened wasnt made clear, you didn't follow the discipline procedure properly on your end. So how can you permanently ban someone? Rules need to upheld on both ends.

Altonius AmakiirApr 10, 20183 votes

So how is this different from skipping a 2 week ban and going straight to a permaban? Correct me if I'm wrong but part of the reason for the escalating punishments is that they can react and be like: "Oh gosh, I'm a bad person, I should do better". But from what I'm gathering from your response is that he was reached the two-week ban punishment without realizing it because Riot messed up. While I certainly don't want to advocate for someone who is toxic, as Riot has stated previously, very few players reach permaban, they usually reform before that. I think it would be fair to admit that there are extenuating circumstances here (due to a Riot internal mishap) and give him a two week ban.

demoted to ironApr 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

This is where we messed up and didn't add the 2 weeks back to your account after removing the proactive suspension. In the tickets, we don't see a record of us telling you the suspension was incorrectly placed and lifted and those interactions should be in your emails for reference.

Let me just say that I don't intend on advocating for toxicity, nor do I support it in any way, shape, or form. Regardless, this was poor commnication on Riot's part and a total mess-up. When a ban is removed, that will always signal to the player that the punishment has been invalidated and is of no concern. We get people like the OP who are perma'd because of Riot's fuck-ups, but we also have players like T1 who threw away more than their fair share of chances and still get unbanned. The OP should be unbanned and recieve an apology given how atrociously this was handled.

fatherdariusApr 11, 20184 votes

While I think this sucks for the OP, I'm going to share my view. Again, as I do legal work adjacent to law enforcement, it is natural for me to use traffic and criminal law as analogy.

Let's say you get arrested for both DUI and drug possession. You go to court, and you're convicted on the DUI charge, because you really were drunk. The drug charge gets dismissed because you prove they weren't really your drugs. Then, due to some oversight the judge doesn't order jail time and/or the court doesn't assess a fine for the DUI.

A while later you get a second DUI. This time the judge orders an enhanced fine because it's a second or subsequent conviction. The fact you didn't have to serve a punishment for the first crime doesn't reduce the severity of the second or subsequent offense.

In fact, sometimes it isn't an 'oversight' at all. Judges routinely go easy on a first offense.

Now, if you weren't even the one driving the car and that 'second' DUI was really your first offense, you'd have every right to complain about arbitrary and capricious judgements.

RiotVerdalothApr 11, 201816 votes

A lot of opinions on both sides, I looked into it a bit more this morning:

On the side of rolling back the ban to two week suspension:

We did not confirm or reiterate after lifting the shield ban that the 2 weeks suspension would remain and we did not reapply the remaining time.

On the side of not rolling back:

The compromise when the 2 weeks ban was placed is not clear cut. The waters are muddy around here and I cant share too much details but there is evidence to suggest that perhaps multiple people have intentionally being allowed access/login to this account.
OP had had several conversations with the support team about in game behaviour prior to this event.

It is pretty clear to me that the original suspension was applied for someone elses chat. However I am not sure OP was being responsible with access to the account - there is a decent amount of "strangeness"

This is about as much details as I can share publicly but if the OP wants to write into us and tell us the whole story, nothing to lose at this stage. I can relook it at - we are not an unreasonable team and this case was well investigated by the team at the time, I would have made the same decision based on the information I am looking at.

Lastly, since we explained the reason behind the suspension (several times), the matter was considered closed and this is why the new ticket that OP sent was closed automatically. But as I mentioned above, feel free to contact us again and I will relook at the case.

Eat My AxesApr 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

A lot of opinions on both sides, I looked into it a bit more this morning:

On the side of rolling back the ban to two week suspension:

We did not confirm or reiterate after lifting the shield ban that the 2 weeks suspension would remain and we did not reapply the remaining time.

On the side of not rolling back:

The compromise when the 2 weeks ban was placed is not clear cut. The waters are muddy around here and I cant share too much details but there is evidence to suggest that perhaps multiple people have intentionally being allowed access/login to this account.

OP had had several conversations with the support team about in game behaviour prior to this event.

It is pretty clear to me that the original suspension was applied for someone elses chat. However I am not sure OP was being responsible with access to the account - there is a decent amount of "strangeness"

This is about as much details as I can share publicly but if the OP wants to write into us and tell us the whole story, nothing to lose at this stage. I can relook it at - we are not an unreasonable team and this case was well investigated by the team at the time, I would have made the same decision based on the information I am looking at.

Lastly, since we explained the reason behind the suspension (several times), the matter was considered closed and this is why the new ticket that OP sent was closed automatically. But as I mentioned above, feel free to contact us again and I will relook at the case.

Well the whole story is exactly how I said it, just summed it quickly. I usually play a couple games a day, but since my school started initiating tests, I played on and off for a bit, I got a chat restriction September made a ticket and spoke to support, then I played on and off again. Not as much as I used to. I think I day I come back and I see a suspension, with logs I did not say, then I notice someone was on my account (October 19 2017). If the suspension was on going earlier I don’t know but that’s the day I realized it. That’s is really all I know. I’m glad to hear you are taking time to reconsider this case, highly appreciated.

Chip10Apr 12, 20181 votes

ModiApr 10, 201821 votes

Suspension being lifted (clemency) and punishment being vacated (pardon) are two completely different things. Most often you see the former, where the agent removes the remaining suspension.

Only in extreme cases, have I seen a punishment completely vacated. Instances of that were truly incorrectly applied punishments.

Just because they commuted your sentence, does not mean they vacated your conviction.

Eat My AxesApr 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Suspension being lifted (clemency) and punishment being vacated (pardon) are two completely different things. Most often you see the former, where the agent removes the remaining suspension.

Only in extreme cases, have I seen a punishment completely vacated. Instances of that were truly incorrectly applied punishments.

Just because they commuted your sentence, does not mean they vacated your conviction.

Well, they lifted the damn 14 day suspension, then say it was never lifted wtf l0l

Eat My AxesApr 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Suspension being lifted (clemency) and punishment being vacated (pardon) are two completely different things. Most often you see the former, where the agent removes the remaining suspension.

Only in extreme cases, have I seen a punishment completely vacated. Instances of that were truly incorrectly applied punishments.

Just because they commuted your sentence, does not mean they vacated your conviction.

And, if it helps, I got the suspension removed as soon as I got it, hence why I have games played on the 20th

FOR JUSTICEApr 10, 20182 votes

what hes saying is that you did get the suspension removed, but they just gave you a break, they never said you weren't guilty, basically like parole almost.

Eat My AxesApr 10, 20188 votes

{quoted}

what hes saying is that you did get the suspension removed, but they just gave you a break, they never said you weren't guilty, basically like parole almost.

But riot said I never got it removed, like at all.

Iffy JarlApr 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Suspension being lifted (clemency) and punishment being vacated (pardon) are two completely different things. Most often you see the former, where the agent removes the remaining suspension.

Only in extreme cases, have I seen a punishment completely vacated. Instances of that were truly incorrectly applied punishments.

Just because they commuted your sentence, does not mean they vacated your conviction.

Ok but their response wasn't "Oh the suspension being lifted and the punishment being vacated are 2 different things"

Their response was "No that never happened kid gg no re imma close the ticket and theres nothing u can do about it, evidence? I see nothing buh bye :)"

AmetDeCryptApr 10, 201813 votes

it's a support desk secret. do the minimum work possible if you can avoid helping people that need it because they haven't caused any kind of social media uproar and gotten us into trouble.

ChermorgApr 10, 20187 votes

I've asked before.. but would you mind posting screenshots of the ticket where you think they said they "removed" the suspension (way back when) and the tickets now? We really can't help you if you're not willing to give us a full picture of what they're saying to you.

CrazFight Apr 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I've asked before.. but would you mind posting screenshots of the ticket where you think they said they "removed" the suspension (way back when) and the tickets now? We really can't help you if you're not willing to give us a full picture of what they're saying to you.

3 hours still no screenshots, I’m going to refrain from up voting for now.

EDIT: he responded he was sleeping, but still hasn’t given screenshots? But keep downvoting me lol

Eat My AxesApr 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=CrazFight ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=J6tTbpcF,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-04-10T16:00:41.122+0000)

3 hours still no screenshots, I’m going to refrain from up voting for now.

Sorry I was asleep.

CrazFight Apr 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Sorry I was asleep.

But I still don’t see screenshots

Eat My AxesApr 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I've asked before.. but would you mind posting screenshots of the ticket where you think they said they "removed" the suspension (way back when) and the tickets now? We really can't help you if you're not willing to give us a full picture of what they're saying to you.

Lol I cant even open my tickets like, legit cant open them. Did they just like ban me from checking my tickets? LOl rito games

Papa AndreiApr 10, 20184 votes

Screenshot that or provide a video

CrazFight Apr 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Papa Andrei,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=J6tTbpcF,comment-id=000700010000,timestamp=2018-04-10T20:47:30.053+0000)

Screenshot that or provide a video

Apparently you get downvoted for asking for proof, these boards are a meme sometimes.

Eat My AxesApr 10, 20183 votes

Yea, gonna have to wait til I’m on the pc

130xApr 10, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Alright, so basically I got perma banned, wait im not going to ask for sympathy or anything. I have to point this out because it’s part of the story. So, a while back. My account was compromised and suspended for 14 days, no problem. I did the account recovery procedure and got it lifted ( this happened around October 19th 2017 the day it got suspended) now I got perma’d and told Riot support I was never suspended, so why didn’t I get a suspension. I got 1 but it was lifted, they say no it was never lifted blah blah blah, that was your 3rd warning. ( which it really was lifted and I’m about to set it to stone that it was lifted with undeniable proof) so, I say ok, if it wasn’t lifted explain this: https://i.imgur.com/Y3gOy2O.jpg Yepp, those games I played were during my supposed 14 day suspension that was never lifted apparently. And I told them to explain this please and they just closed the ticket without saying anything, found it quite rude, was anxious to hear what they would say.

Not surprised. Riot loves that people like bans. This way they can make more $$$. Like what are you going to do now? Yep, go drop some cash on getting your favorite champs and skins. That's smart business.

FOR JUSTICEApr 10, 201826 votes

except you don't consider the fact that its riot showing you the door telling you they don't want you back. youre also lots less likely to spend money on a game you just got banned from, but you throwing money at them after they tell you get out is your business.

130xApr 10, 20181 votes

[deleted]

AeroWaffleApr 10, 201812 votes

... You're assuming that they're young because they correctly assume that a banned player is less likely to give money to the company that banned them?

HalcyonDwellerApr 10, 20186 votes

Speculation. Entirely based on assumptions. Stop spreading misinformation, just because you have beef with Riot doesn't give you the right to run around lying about them.

Eat My AxesApr 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Speculation. Entirely based on assumptions. Stop spreading misinformation, just because you have beef with Riot doesn't give you the right to run around lying about them.

They closed my 2nd ticket asking if they would respond update

HalcyonDwellerApr 10, 20182 votes

I was responding to 130x, not you.

Eat My AxesApr 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I was responding to 130x, not you.

Oh mb.

HalcyonDwellerApr 10, 20182 votes

No problem! You might be using chronological view, there's also a discussion view mode where you can see comments nested under the comments they reply to.

There should be a text button / link right below your post and right above the comments section if you want to try switching between them.

MagicalDemonsApr 10, 20182 votes

When I first saw the picture I thought you were gonna complain about being banned for inting, like damn 10 games in a row unlucky. But then as I read more I realized how bullshit that is. Sorry hope riot fixes this,

d4rkshockApr 12, 20182 votes

At least it isn't some player wondering why they got banned when it was justfied. Riot actually did something. It sucks that that happened. And it looked like riot wasn't going to do anything. At least it's not riot Korea. They banned cowsep because of his post about how Koreans are toxic pieces of shit and one of the games he showed as proof is the game where he got a blue rammis because this guy is probably a north korean refugee who still hates people of American descent that called him a Yankee and told him to go home. Also skt bang was in the game begging him not to int and you could tell he was pissed in his stream. That guy didn't get banned. They would've done far worse or you wouldn't be banned in the first place because their ban system is fucked.if it did ban you u would be fucked and would have to buy a lvl 30 acct and rush it back to your elo or buy exp boosts.

XxXJoshXxXApr 14, 20182 votes

I'm going to keep necroing this to show how many hoops you have to go through to deal with the systems riot has put in place

Eat My AxesApr 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to keep necroing this to show how many hoops you have to go through to deal with the systems riot has put in place

Ikr, like if I didn’t go you the forums, would’ve never got it lifted, which I shouldn’t have to.

RiotVerdalothApr 16, 20188 votes

I don't think this is exactly fair, there was some information that was provided based on this forum thread that was not initially provided in the ticket and if it had been, the outcome might have been different. Account compromises are very tough cases - the difficulty of this case was not the ban but the original compromise that led to the permanent ban. I agree we can always improve process here and feedback on painful processes help us get better.

XxXJoshXxXApr 23, 20181 votes