It took Imaqtpie nearly 4 months to get from honor level 1 to honor level 3

Hoenheim777·Aug 13, 2018·5 votes·3,243 views

Apparently it takes you 4 months of playing almost 10 hours a day just to make it from honor level 1 to honor level 3. If Imaqtpie, a man who makes a living from this game and can afford to play 10 hours almost every day, takes 4 months to climb to honor level 3 from honor level 1 then I definitely think its wayyyy to hard to climb honor levels once you get to honor level 0 or 1. Also, Imaqtpie very rarely tilts. He has a very entertaining laid back approach to the game and this is how long it took him to get to honor level 3. How do you expect a normal player who got chat restricted because of a day where he was tilted and used chat too aggressively to ever climb back from honor levels 0 or 1.

This has been brought up in this board multiple times but this is the most undeniable proof I have seen yet. It definitely too difficult to climb honor levels once you get to honor levels below 2 and It doesn't seem fair that just because you got a single chat restriction you cant feasibly get back to honor level 2 in a reasonable time frame. Essentially if you get any sort of punishment throughout the year then you have no hope of getting end of year rewards.

EDIT: Since apparently any post attempting to start a discussion in this board is immediately raided by players that flood it with comments about how you just have to not be toxic and you will have no problem with the system; I will not reply to anybody else. This board should not exist if the system is so perfect that the only people who have a problem with it are toxic scum according to you guys. Why would anybody want to discuss a system that's already perfect? TIL that Riot is god and its policies are not to be questioned.

71 Comments

OleandervineAug 13, 201810 votes

Hot tip: Don't get chat restricted. This will make sure you never lose honor.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20184 votes

I wonder if people like you truly believe that they are making meaningful contributions to a discussion when you post comments like these.

OleandervineAug 13, 20189 votes

Well, it's the easiest thing in the world. Just don't type inflammatory things that can be reportable. It's the simplest of concepts and will prevent you from having to recover your honor in a several-month-long ordeal.

Complaining that you've been punished for bad behavior in a way you don't like is pointless, because that just indicates that the punishment is working as intended. If you truly do not want to be punished, don't do things that get you punished.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20182 votes

Nobody is complaining about getting punished, and its not the easiest thing in the world to have a positive attitude 100% percent of the time. It is definitely harder than reading the full post before commenting and you cant manage to do that.

SubdueAug 13, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Nobody is complaining about getting punished, and its not the easiest thing in the world to have a positive attitude 100% percent of the time. It is definitely harder than reading the full post before commenting and you cant manage to do that.

You don't need to have a positive attitude 100% of the time. In fact, you can have a negative attitude 100% of the time and never be punished. All you have to do is keep your negative attitude out of the chat / game. Scream at your screen all you want, squeeze a stress ball, but keep it out of the game.

OleandervineAug 13, 20186 votes

I did read your post. You're upset that that consequence of your punishment is inconveniencing you, because it's going to take you or whoever is chat restricted, an excessively long time to recover their honor.

To prevent the consequence, you must eliminate the cause. You will never have to spend months at a time recovering your honor if you're never punished to begin with.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

Same thing I said to another person: Reducing an attempted discussion of the honor system to "lol dont get chat restricted" is not productive to the thread or the board. If you don't want to hear people talk about the behavioral system then don't come to a board titled "Player Behavior". If your contribution boils down to: "dont be toxic" then you are trying to shut down conversation in a board that exists to have a conversation about these topics.

"hot tip" if you don't want to read about people talking about the behavioral system then go to another board.

Jo0oAug 13, 20184 votes

Speaking as “the other guy” you said this to, I acknowledge that this position could be seen as unproductive, but I simply don’t see a more productive response. Your position seems to be that it takes an unfairly long time to regain honor levels, but that’s clearly by design. League has a bad reputation concerning toxicity, so the new honor system makes the difference between honorable and dishonorable rewards very distinct.

LeafyGreenAug 13, 20184 votes

You are basically complaining about getting punished when your honor being reduced and being forced to climb back up IS A PUNISHEMENT

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

People like you are the reason this community can be so irksome. Anything that anybody says that isn't: "Gosh Riot is so awesome!" is: "basically complaining". Once more, I'm talking about the honor system in a board meant to be used for that. If you don't like posts that are "basically complaining" about the punishment system then go to another board.

LeafyGreenAug 13, 20183 votes

Not once in my sentence did I say I didn't like posts that complain, I'm just replying to the comment saying that you aren't complaining and then in this reply you say are are lol wut

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

The use of quotation marks is there to indicate that it is you who thinks I am "basically complaining". Also, as long as we are here I will throw an actual complaint out there. You are annoying and your "contributions" are annoying.

Jo0oAug 13, 20187 votes

He’s not wrong. Chat restrictions don’t just “happen”. Honor levels are meant to be difficult to gain. The solution is to make sure not to lose them.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

Reducing an attempted discussion of the honor system to "lol dont get chat restricted" is not productive to the thread or the board. If you don't want to hear people talk about the behavioral system then don't come to a board titled "Player Behavior". If your contribution boils down to: "dont be toxic" then you are trying to shut down conversation in a board that exists to have a conversation about these topics.

Jo0oAug 13, 20185 votes

Season rewards are a privilege. I see no issue with punishments removing privileges.

Again, these things don’t just happen.

LeafyGreenAug 13, 20184 votes

And I just reached honor level 5 last week after started out from level 3 at the beginning of the season. Riot stated themselves that consistency over a long period of time works better than just playing nonstop and expecting to be honor reformed after x amount of hours. Just because he plays the game 10 hrs a day doesn't mean he should receive a penalty any worse than a player who can only play a couple matches a week.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

Like i said in the post, qt has a great attitude and this is evident to anybody who watches him. Its the fact that he has a good attitude AND plays like 10 hours a day that makes this (in my opinion) proof that climbing honor is too hard.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOAug 13, 20184 votes

No, he’s toxic as shit but he can laugh t off and people think it’s just memes

LeafyGreenAug 13, 20182 votes

I can understand why you think playing 10 hrs a day should make him climb faster, but like I said before what if someone can't play as much as him. Is the person grinding all day theoretically reforming faster than another player over the same course of time? Sure it serves as a purpose to show "well I played x amount of games without flaming so I deserve to go up honor," but I think it makes more sense to be more like "x time has passed since my last punishment and I have shown signs of being reformed so I deserve to go up honor," works a lot better for all types of players better.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

At least you tried to discuss the topic at hand, and for that I thank you. I'm done with this thread though.

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20184 votes

The amount of time it takes depends on how you behave while climbing it again. If you get validly reported in the middle of the process then it resets your progress to zero again. It should be more transparent about it, but the fact of the matter is that some people have climbed back to honor two in far less time and without playing as much per day as Imaqtpie does.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

"Facts" are not claims you throw out there with no proof whatsoever. If that is truly the "fact of the matter" then why do so many people post about how getting honor back is too difficult? Show me some posts of people saying the opposite or how they climbed back in "far less time" and I might be more inclined to believe you.

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20183 votes

~~This person did it in under a week:~~ [Edit: This person unlocked their honor and began climbing in less than a week:]

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/2dLK3IWP-i-got-out-of-honor-0-in-5-days

You exaggerated how long it takes with the Imaqtpie example. I will reiterate:

The amount of time it takes depends on how you behave while climbing it again. if you behave well and do not do anything that gets validly reported then you will climb much more quickly. Imaqtpie is no saint, he says crap in-game often enough. Same deal for you or me, we can say whatever after honor gets bumped down - but just because it doesn't get an escalated punishment doesn't mean it wasn't noticed or counted on our record.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

Thanks for replying with proof. At least now I know that its even possible to do so in a month and not 5 days. 5 days was what it took him to get to like the first checkpoint out of 6 to being level 2 again. At least that's what I understand from that poorly worded post.

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20181 votes

Ah indeed, yes I misread it. Regardless though, they didn't play as frequently as Imaqtpie does. So it's safe to assume that it's not going to take more than that month even if you don't play as much as Imaqtpie. As long as you keep your nose clean you should be in the clear, if it takes longer then it's because stuff you did got validly reported.

Imperial PandaaAug 13, 20183 votes

Climbing honor isn't exclusive to 0 and 1, same difficulty for everyone after it is unlocked.

And doubles as proof that famous players get the same punishments as regular players.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

Like i said in the post, he plays a lot and has a great attitude and that's how long it took him. Nobody is talking about how it should have taken him less because he is a famous streamer.

SubdueAug 13, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Like i said in the post, he plays a lot and has a great attitude and that's how long it took him. Nobody is talking about how it should have taken him less because he is a famous streamer.

As was already mentioned in this thread, it's not about number of hours played, it's about showing a consistently acceptable attitude. That means whether he's playing 1-2 games a day or 10 hours a day for 4 months, he'll regain honor at about the same rate.

To facilitate discussion, I've got a simple question:

One could argue that the reward for having 5 honor at the end of the season should be spectacular, and regaining honor should take at least half a season to more heavily incentive good behavior.

Why do you believe regaining honor should be easier, not harder?

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20182 votes

You are directly contradicting what Riot has already said regarding the honor system. They say that the more you get honored the faster you will climb honor levels. They don't say that regardless of what you do you will take a long time to climb back up.

"You level up just by playing to win in your games. Show up, don’t intentionally work against team, and you’ll progress in the coming weeks and months. If your teammates honor you a lot, you’ll get a slight bonus in progression and rewards like loading screen flairs."

Somebody is lying here if apparently part of getting punished means that you are condemned to a long time of being honor level 0 or 1. What's the point of being honorable then? If you are playing a lot, and you have a positive attitude most if not every game then you should climb faster than a dude that plays 1-2 games a day. Evidently people like you are starting to believe that its supposed to be like that; that you are supposed to be fucked for 4 months if you get a 10 game chat restriction. They stated that this is not the case at the beginning of the season yet here we are seeing quite the opposite happen.

SubdueAug 13, 20183 votes

{quoted}

You are directly contradicting what Riot has already said regarding the honor system. They say that the more you get honored the faster you will climb honor levels. They don't say that regardless of what you do you will take a long time to climb back up.

"You level up just by playing to win in your games. Show up, don’t intentionally work against team, and you’ll progress in the coming weeks and months. If your teammates honor you a lot, you’ll get a slight bonus in progression and rewards like loading screen flairs."

Somebody is lying here if apparently part of getting punished means that you are condemned to a long time of being honor level 0 or 1. What's the point of being honorable then? If you are playing a lot, and you have a positive attitude most if not every game then you should climb faster than a dude that plays 1-2 games a day. Evidently people like you are starting to believe that its supposed to be like that; that you are supposed to be fucked for 4 months if you get a 10 game chat restriction. They stated that this is not the case at the beginning of the season yet here we are seeing quite the opposite happen.

I am not contradicting anything Riot has said. It's right there in what you quoted: "...You'll progress in the in the coming WEEKS and MONTHS." "If your teammates honor you a lot, you'll get a SLIGHT bonus in progression..."

Imaqtpie has risen 2 honor levels within the timeframe of WEEKS and MONTHS as defined by the text you quoted.

As for the point of being honorable, well, the point is that being honorable makes the experience better for yourselves and your teammates.

More than likely though, you're asking, what's in it for you.

You're less likely to receive penalties like chat restrictions and bans if you're actively trying to be honorable.
You receive rewards for being honorable, which is pretty much why you're bent out of shape about it taking so long to get out of the dog house.

A lot of people here have already posted, the solution to your issue is to be honorable in the first place, to not get penalized in the first place, and you've continuously responded back that those people are just repeating what Riot has stated, that they're "parrots", and other dismissive comments. So let me ask you this:

What do you think the purpose of the punishment is? Why do you feel the punishment would be more effective in achieving this purpose if the punishment period were shorter?

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

You are contradicting it because Riot said its an indefinite amount of time that will be determined from your behavior following the punishment.

You said: "As was already mentioned in this thread, it's not about number of hours played, it's about showing a consistently acceptable attitude. That means whether he's playing 1-2 games a day or 10 hours a day for 4 months, he'll regain honor at about the same rate."

QT is consistently showing good attitude 10 hours a day and you think that he deserves to be in a reduced honor for the same amount of time as a person who just plays 2 games a day. Which is again, a contradiction to Riots statement.

As for the other stupid shit you said while implying that I only care about myself. I'm saying that the honor system should give incentive for good behavior (which is what I think it was created for). If you think that altruistic inclinations are the only thing you need to be nice then why is it even there to begin with?

As for the punishment; I'm arguing that if you are literally doing what Riot says you should do, which is showing good attitude in many games, then yes your punishment should be shorter. Your argument that you keep insisting on that the difficulty of regaining honor is part of the punishment does contradict Riot's statement. They are saying that if its difficult its because you aren't being positive in your games. They are not saying that difficulty in regaining honor is part of the punishment like you keep insisting.

Finally, instead of implying you are a bad person which is what "non toxic" players like you deem to be acceptable behavior. I will explicitly say that I think you are a terrible person and that I won't be replying to your accusatory and vaguely insulting responses.

Beatrice fallsAug 13, 20183 votes

Fact : "honor" isn't a farming system

sleepysithlordAug 13, 20182 votes

OP its not really worth talking to these people IMO. They've exported their ability to think and just parrot talking points

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20183 votes

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You can't just go around claiming that everyone who disagrees with you is a parrot. We're all players here. We all have experiences with the game. To claim that others' experience is invalid simply because their conclusions they've drawn from that experience are different from your own is a very shitty thing to do.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

If their conclusion is: "Well I have never gotten punished, if you did, it must mean you are a terrible person." or "just don't be toxic bro" then yes, they are parroting the same talking points over and over again. I also find it hard to believe that people like you and Kei143 are actual players and not people paid to roam these boards and turn the tides of the discussion towards the same talking points over and over again.

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20183 votes

Oh so now anybody with an opposing viewpoint must be a shill? Classy accusation mate. Ha. Ha. I wish I was paid to roam the boards.

But the mods themselves have admitted that it would be easier for Riot to delete unwanted content rather than pay shills to argue against it.

In another comment in this thread you bemoaned in-group favoritism, but aren't you showing in-group favoritism to Sleepy here? So what's the deal here? In-group favoritism is bad because it can be turned against you, but you're more than willing to show it with someone who supports your point of view?

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Well you both spend a lot of time in this board specifically, you both barely play, and you both have the same icon, and you both constantly post exactly what Riot would like their community to believe. This is why I say I find it hard to believe that you are both actually players. But sure, lets say you aren't a shill, you are certainly a pathetic person. If you really do constantly come here out of your own time to pump out the same narrative and try to discredit all who disagree with insults and random posts about some dude who may or may not have climbed out of honor level 0 in a month, then I see no other descriptor as accurate as that one.

I changed my icon less than a week ago. Before that it was a harrowing icon from the first harrowing event many years ago, and I had that icon equipped for months, if not years. I equipped this icon because I liked it, sue me. People can like the same icon, I know, shocker right?
I play a few times a week usually, when I have time. I played all the time back in college, but since then I've had a lot less free time. That doesn't make me less of a player than others.
I don't just try to discredit all who disagree, when i see bullshit I challenge it. We can't get Riot to listen to us to fix their shit if half of us are complaining about false bullshit.
I criticize Riot and propose ideas to fix the game all the time. Just because I challenge bullshit against Riot doesn't mean I disagree with legitimate complaints.

And no, I'm not showing in-group favoritism to Sleepy, I'm agreeing with him. According to Wikipedia in-group favoritism "is a pattern of favoring members of one's in-group over out-group members". Which is what people on this board always do to people they consider somebody "toxic". They just bandwagon and try to make it seem like their concerns and posts are irrelevant because the solution is as simple as: "don't be toxic". I'm not showing any sort of pattern towards any group of people since I rarely post here. I am merely agreeing with some people, disagreeing with others, and pointing out the patterns I have seen in the only two posts I have made in this shitty board.

Maybe you have a different definition for in-group favoritism, but what you're doing here is morally equivalent to that. You criticized any opposing views by making ad hominem attacks (calling people shills), and you got buddy-buddy with the one person who kissed your feet and stroked your ego.
there is no conspiracy against toxic people. Everyone here is an individual and they speak and act for themselves. Some people are nasty towards players who come to the boards having been toxic in-game. I don't defend those people. Some other people legitimately care about the quality of the game, and will stand up for what they believe is best for game quality.
Sometimes when people come here to complain about the punishment system, they use bullshit to justify why the system should change instead of them, or they push an agenda that would ultimately make the system more ineffective and enable trolls to do more harm. Both types of people discussed in point 2 will react negatively to someone who uses bullshit to justify changing the system. It is important to not confuse one type of person for the other, or to generalize by assuming that all critics are the same type of person.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20182 votes

{quoted}
<Removed by Moderation>

Classy. Also uncalled for.

Also, I'm not using a "different" definition of in group favoritism, I'm using the definition Wikipedia gives which is a neutral and factual definition (the one I literally quoted in the response). You are using a definition you made up and believe to be "morally equivalent" to the real one.

My point was it's just as bad as in-group favoritism. You're in no position to be acting superior to everybody else.

"Everyone who disagrees with me is a shill," AKA "opposing viewpoints aren't even legitimate because the only people who disagree with me are shills or lowly creatures beneath me." - basically the point of view that you and Sleepy seem to be using here. It squashes any legitimate discussion by treating the opposing points of view with absolute disrespect.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

I sad you and Kei143 might be shills because of similar patterns you are displaying and I stated those patterns. I didn't just say this guy is a shill because he disagrees with me. Also, didn't dismiss your views because here I am still arguing with you and specifically responding to the things that you are writing. I am discrediting them, for reasons I am stating and not for just disagreeing with me. This is what one does when one argues with another; attempt to bolster your view point and discredit the other's.

Sleepy doesn't give a shit about this thread and is not saying anything at all, so your attempt to portray us as a team or as a group is ill advised. I am a single person disagreeing with some views and agreeing with others.

I did discredit some opinions which again, I specifically addressed. I did not just say: "everybody who disagrees is a parrot or a shill". I even said why those specific types of comments are useless: "Reducing an attempted discussion of the honor system to "lol dont get chat restricted" is not productive to the thread or the board. If you don't want to hear people talk about the behavioral system then don't come to a board titled "Player Behavior". If your contribution boils down to: "dont be toxic" then you are trying to shut down conversation in a board that exists to have a conversation about these topics."

Finally just because you are sarcastically insulting me doesn't mean you aren't insulting me so insulting you back was indeed "called for".

Keep it "classy" bud, toodles.

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20182 votes

You insisted I was a shill just for calling someone (Sleepy) out for trying to stifle valid conversation when he preemptively bashed all opposing viewpoints.

I didn't say you were a team, just that your comment to them was very buddy-buddy. Remember, we're not talking about the same thing when we say in-group favoritism. They supported your claim and derided opposing viewpoints, and when someone called them on it you rushed to their defense. Again, you're not a team, but you're certainly going out of your way to defend them....

Actually you accused all opposition of being invalid. And you defended someone who was preemptively bashing all opposing viewpoints.

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

What's funny about you strawmanning all my arguments is that the real version is right there for all to see. For the following argument, I will counter everything you just said with something I already said. I will present my actual argument instead of your fictitious straw-man argument. (Here is the link since you probably don't know what that means) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

As for discrediting all opposition regardless of what they say here is me saying exactly what opposition deserves to be discredited: "If their conclusion is: "Well I have never gotten punished, if you did, it must mean you are a terrible person." or "just don't be toxic bro" then yes, they are parroting the same talking points over and over again"

Like i stated before, and will again for the fourth time I was agreeing that certain types of arguments (the ones that I specifically point out and not all opposing arguments) are not valid points in a thread like this. Here is why: "Reducing an attempted discussion of the honor system to "lol dont get chat restricted" is not productive to the thread or the board. If you don't want to hear people talk about the behavioral system then don't come to a board titled "Player Behavior". If your contribution boils down to: "dont be toxic" then you are trying to shut down conversation in a board that exists to have a conversation about these topics."

Dodging is what you are doing strawmanning all of my arguments and trying to make it seem like I just ignore all opposing views when I answered to almost all of them with exactly the reason I think their view has no merit. The proof is in the entire thread and even in this response.

Never insisted you were a shill and always just pointed to the possibility of it being true because of certain observed patterns. Again. "Well you both spend a lot of time in this board specifically, you both barely play, and you both have the same icon, and you both constantly post exactly what Riot would like their community to believe."

And again, like I said before, I am using the correct and factual definition of a term (in-group favoritism) and you are using a made up version of that term that better suits your argument. Its really easy to prove you wrong when you do that so you should avoid doing that the next time you attempt to challenge somebody's clearly superior argument. Here is the definition since apparently me writing it out for you is not enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20182 votes

You said "toodles" what are you still doing? Was it just a desperate grab to get the last word in? Getting the last word isn't the same as "winning." And the point of a discussion shouldn't be to win in the first place.

I'm still confused as to why you picked a fight with me in the first place. lol

You defended someone (Sleepy) who was strawmanning everyone who opposed your point of view. Then you used their own ad hominem rhetoric. You'll have to forgive me for thinking that you were accusing all opposing points of view of being invalid.

As for calling me a shill, insisted, implied - whatever dude, the intent was there. You know it, I know it. You'd rather make accusations and ad hominems than put effort into a discussion. I get it, some days we're just on edge. That's okay. Just breathe, and ignore me.

Are you ready to say toodle's for real? Or are you going to keep trying to assert superiority when it's unnecessary to do so?

Hoenheim777Aug 13, 20181 votes

I expanded upon Sleepy's view with specific examples. And you have no idea what strawmanning is so I suggest you check the link I posted in my last reply. He said they were parroting same comments over and over again. That is merely dismissing their views, not presenting a fictitious version of another person's argument then proving that weaker version wrong, which is what you have tried to do in every single comment where you have replied to me while the real argument is out there for all (including yourself) to see.

For the fifth time, if I was dismissing your stupid arguments I would have just left it there at the very real possibility you are a shill. I am literally proving them wrong over and over again with articles and quotes while you over and over again purposely misinterpret my replies.

And no I don't forgive you for accusing me of dismissing all opposing opinions because your real intent is in every one of your responses. You have tried to make it seem like I am here to rage at the board and Riot. You know it, I know it. That's why all your responses have some sort of veiled accusation that I am mad. Just like this one. Maybe for ignorant people like you "U mad bro?" is a good retort, but to me it just makes it obvious that you are stumped and have to resort to that type of comeback.

One of the reasons you are so terrible at arguing is because you constantly use the wrong words and try to pass them off as the correct word. Insisting is not even close to implying. Google is right there, you can verify this yourself. Every time I prove you wrong you just drop that argument thread and go to another one where you can try to turn the tides in your favor.

So far the only thing you have been right about is that last paragraph, there really is no need to assert superiority when it is beyond obvious. One person uses factual definitions and articles and quotes. The other uses veiled insults, purposeful misinterpretation of the other person's arguments, and misuse of vocabulary. I wonder who came here with actual intentions of starting a conversation and who came here to promote some hidden agenda.

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20182 votes

~~I didn't say Sleepy used a strawman. Because they didn't.~~ I meant that Sleepy used a generalization. You did [use a strawman] though, when you used a quote and presented it as if it proved Sleepy's generalization that everyone who disagrees is invalid.

Whether or not I were a shill had nothing to do with the subject at hand. You brought that up as an accusation, as a way to invalidate my point of view. That's crappy arguing, mate. And it's why I argued back, because I'm not a shill and you were being incredibly rude and lazy to use that as a means of dismissing my claims.

I was being facetious, I do not actually need your forgiveness.

Wow, give you an inch and you'll take a mile. I stand by what I said about "insisted." You were being insistent that all of the opposition somehow holds "propaganda" viewpoints. And the point still holds, you were just calling me a shill to dismiss my point of view. You know it, I know it.

You say there's no need to assert superiority, yet you keep trying to do it with your phrasing and language. "Veiled insults and purposeful misinterpretations?" Look who's talking.

As for who came here, you're the one who replied to my comment, I wasn't talking to you initially, I was talking to Sleepy. I called someone else out for their bullshit, you're the one who stepped in and picked a fight with me about it.

Hoenheim777Aug 14, 20181 votes

I read the first sentence of what you typed and thought of exactly the sentence where you said so: "You defended someone (Sleepy) who was strawmanning everyone who opposed your point of view." That was you. You said that less than 6 hours ago.

Every single response, you contradict yourself. Every single response, you purposely misinterpret my arguments. I'm not gonna read anything else you type beyond that because you have proven over and over and over again that you are just bullshitting and stream of consciousness style making it up as you go along with no regard to facts and what has actually been said or not said. With even less regard to what is factual and what is fantasy. You are not worthy of being taken seriously or even attempting to understand because you probably don't even understand yourself.

I have no recourse but to conclude that you are a bad person. A bad person who attacks others while he shames them for attacking back. You are also an ignorant person. A person who contradicts himself at the drop of a hat in a desperate attempt at being "right". A person who does not think about what he says. A person who does not attempt to understand other people in the slightest before responding to them. Most importantly you are a person worthy of pity. A person who has a lot of free time and who chooses to use that time to vilify others and spew vitriol at them for merely attempting to be honest about the state of this board.

Feel free to misinterpret all of this regardless of the specific wording I have consistently used to attempt to help you understand me and to respond with another circular argument that I have already disproved.

This Is Your DadAug 14, 20181 votes

I for one salute you on getting a life. League did more harm than good for me back when I played every day for hours.

HalcyonDwellerAug 13, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If their conclusion is: "Well I have never gotten punished, if you did, it must mean you are a terrible person." or "just don't be toxic bro" then yes, they are parroting the same talking points over and over again. I also find it hard to believe that people like you and Kei143 are actual players and not people paid to roam these boards and turn the tides of the discussion towards the same talking points over and over again.

Oh I see what went wrong here, I didn't simply dismiss it when you used strawman (when you present a caricature of others' opinions that was convenient to knock down) and ad hominem (implying people were shills instead of expressing their own opinions).

If you want to be persuasive about an issue, don't associate with or defend fallacious arguments like Sleepy's here. Doing so only drags your own claims through the mud. There was no need for you to step into the discussion between Sleepy and I.

You and I even had a rational discussion in a separate comment chain, so why did you pick this fight with me? The only reason I can think of is that you wanted to defend the person who supported your point of view, but that doesn't track because you said later on in our argument that you aren't with/for them! So which is it? You can't have it both ways.