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Season 6: Meta enforcement reaches CULT level. Free Thought = Trolling

Damagefox··5 votes·1,047 views

Seriously this is getting rediculous. The idea that People are now starting to report others for having THIER OWN STRATEGY. I have been playing support role sinse season 3. But personally i have played the usual supports so much they bore me. No mental thought, no strategy involved, just push a button and poke. I enjoy the challenge of playing Different champs and ADAPTING them to the support role. One of the ones I find i do best with is an SUPPORT jhin. Equivilent of a sniper on the roof backing up a police raid....Just incase. He has good cc, poke, range, ability to leash enemies from behind his adc. And I do well with him (Mastery 7, Waiting for mastey 8-10)

But Its getting to the point where people are starting to report players for...HAVING THIER OWN STRATEGY. As I said, I play Support jhin quite well. But its getting so bad that people are reporting players for not following LCS like its the friggin Bible. LCS Determines what you can play LCS determines WHO you can play on WHAT role LCS determines what you CAN build, What you CANT build LCS determines WHEN you can farm, WHEN laning phase is over.

Seriously. I am getting sick of hearing LCS this and LCS that... YOu want to follow the LCS like its your Friggin pope, fine. But Reporting people for not conforming to YOUR Desire follow the META prescribed to you by your Meta god. I play to my strength, I have MY OWN STRATEGY, My own builds. They work for me. If not for people like me who took a champ and tried them out in a role They were not intended, There wouldnt be kindred. Riot even stated they made kindred because people were taking MARKSMEN (ADC CHAMPS) in the jungle.

So I want to know if Riot is actually going to come out and make it clear That they wont be banning people for having individual thoughts or strategies. Or If they are going to start locking down Linear builds "This is your role..so THESE are the permitted champs, THESE are the permitted builds, THESE are the permitted times oh phase change (lane phase start/lane phase end/Group phase, etc). Any attempts to build outside these perimeters will result in your account being banned"

Season 6: The season where Free thought, individuality, and personal strategy was outlawed in the name of the "LCS META".

39 Comments

TrulyBland3 votes

While I absolutely get where you are coming from (I've had my fair share of "weird" picks) it's important to remember that this is a team game. Never insist on "your own strategy". Because if all five members of your team have "their own strategy", that team is bound to fail.

Compromise and communicate. Don't just pick something because you want to play that champion in that specific role. Try to find a team composition that works and everybody is comfortable with. If you want to play something your team is not comfortable with: Make them comfortable with it, by talking about your intentions and how/why (you believe) it works and complements the team. If you've tried it out before and know it works: Tell them.

But if you're just going "I'll play Jhin support no matter what" and refuse to elaborate your plan when people criticise it, then it is absolutely understandable when people assume you are a troll. If you didn't want to intentionally incite negative reactions (which is the most basic definition of a troll), you would treat your team with respect.

Edit: On top of punishment, Riot has said often enough by now that they do not enforce the meta.

Damagefox2 votes

as I said, People are Unwilling to even TRY IT. Even bringing it up is considered taboo.

If I Ask "hey mind if I go support jhin? Here is why it works....." They immediately ban jhin and pull a "Hell no, no jhin support, idgaf ur not playing jhin support" and will flame me to no end about it. And as I have been told before that I have to prove it to them. So if I take jhin and THEN try and explain "here is why it works,here is how I play, here is how it goes..." Nope, still nothing, I get labeled a troll, they flame and scream and throw a tantrum. then as soon as the match starts they go out of thier way to sabotage me (idling, afking, jungle refuses to gank bot lane, etc) all so they can VALIDATE thier pre-formed opinion that I am a troll without even giving me a chance.

Yet when I have those few few games where someone IS open minded enough to try it out, I do well and we usually end up winning our matches (unless we end up against a like platinum smurf who goes 15/0 in 0.38s and just deletes the team)

as I said, I play it because after 3 seasons of regular or "proper" supports, they bore me, they are too predictable. (too easy for the enemy to read, and too boring for me to play). But even if I do treat my team with respect, I am just the support, and the supports are Never treated with respect (and if you think they are you are kidding yourself). Supports are treated as disposable (as soon as the match goes south, its the support or jungle that takes all the blame regardless). I dont intentionally incite negative reations, but I am damned if I do and damned if I dont.

Thats the whole point of this is to get people to open up to more ideas, season 6 has apparently become more and more religiously dogmatic when it comes to the meta. LCS dictates everything and anything outside the permitted choices is deemed a troll regardless of what you tell your team.

So the people who know how effective support Velkoz is, support ahri, etc. Or any other off meta role. How dare you even try it. again, I know I have to repeat myself, But they said they created KINDRED Kindred because people were taking adc marksmen and playing them in the jungle role. And I am sure those players got just as much flak as I did before kindred came out if not more. "If the pros dont do it, dont even bring it up" thats the attitude I get "well LCS says...." "the LCS meta doesnt allow....." blah blah blah.

Kei1433 votes

they community was always like this. not just season6.

if you want to go off meta support, say it after bans.

I've had success with jhin support, but I'll probably only use him when I have 2 tanks in both top / jungle. Which I rarely get cos everyone wants to carry.

Also, everyone on LCS is competiting at the highest level, small inefficiencies can cost them the game, where at the commoner's level, everything works.

Also, most people at your level don't have the game knowledge enough to know what works and not. I mean .. do they even know how to zone with proper positiioning? probably not.

Damagefox2 votes

Thats what I do, But its sort of a "Damned if I do, damned if I dont" thing I am screwed either way just for even bringing it up. People seem to expect me to sit there and ask politely just so my team can say "OMG No u troll! HEY! Ban Jhin! we dont want jhin support! OMG u troll! jhin gets banned

If I wait till after Ban: "OMG jhin support?! WTF NO, TROOOOOOLLL GG Report report" ANd then in game I will be ignored, flamed sabotaged "/all report troll jhin, wont play a real support" or Jungler refusing ganks on bot lane, refusing to help a "Troll" lane. Then when bot gets pressured and harrassed by frequent enemy ganks from enemy jungler "see, I told you, troll feeder jhin, report report!" and then some members of my team with have a temper tantrum, with afks, flames, harrassments, etc.

But Hey, if the team has a temper tantrum and refuses to play or even give me a chance and we lose. That automatically means that JHIN SUPPORT DOESNT WORK! why? Because win/loss record. Yeah, they use the win/loss record to punish the individual for the actions of the TEAM. I play serious, not my fault my team wants to be preschoolers and have a temper tantrum because I wont play the champ THEY want, or play how THEY want. (which is usually "Play a PROPER SUPPORT/REAL SUPPORT")

Kei1431 votes

I'd say around 20% of the games I'll get everyone agree on "extreme off meta" picks at first.

Normally I'd tell them a reason on why it works, and when they continue to flame, I'll just say "trust" and then be quiet. Sometimes it works, sometimes they'll continue flaming, but people will blame anything that is out of their comfort zone.

Make sure you do have the skill the back up what you claim and zone them properly with your 4th shot. Also please buy a sight stone when you play support.

Damagefox2 votes

I do have the skill, and Not only do I buy a SS, but I do build either Ancient Coin or Relic Shield Ancient Coin lets me roam and poke without taking CS from adc Relic shield lets me be a bit more creative, often using dancing grenade to trigger the execute and relic heal. Also with the added bonus of the execute increasing the damage on the final bounce.

I know what i am doing. I am Mastery 7 with jhin (would be higher I think but Master 7 is the limit, waiting for a Plaid banner for mastery 8 and either a Rainbow or glittery/rainbow banner for mastery 9 (yeah right as if they would do someting as flashy as that)

Kei1431 votes

actually, those masteries don't mean much, especially in the support role. Masteries don't measure how you do with "invisible stats" such as "how much CS you denied the enemy as support through zoning / harass" or "how many times you saved your ADC with peel".

I'd look at your rank (bronze 5) much more in terms of game knowledge. But, sounds like you have decent knowledge of the game to do creative stuff. Maybe just your rank hasn't caught up yet.

rand0mredneck2 votes

You're not getting banned for any of that, Captain Overreact. If you did nothing wrong, the report does nothing. So quit whining.

AramsAreBest3 votes

If you've played off meta supports like jhin or ashe you get harassed the whole game. The reason those supports don't work as well as conventional supports is only because of people raging then throwing.

Damagefox2 votes

Exactly, thank you. I play Support jhin because its kinda like when the swat team is called in, its always good to have a sniper on the roof wathcing your back. Jhin support isnt exactly meant for Healing adc. But more for leashing down enemies, crippling with CC, Limiting thier movements while taking little chunks out of them untill they are knocked down to last hit. They take more strategy to play. and a bit of setup, But the outcome is just as good. When I have an open minded adc willing to work with me and give it a shot, We end up completely destroying the enemy team, No escape.

Of course when I get the same players who are completely unwilling to try anything outside the LCS-Approved meta, they throw a complete and total hissy fit, call me a troll, abandon lane, go invade other lanes, or just afk and throw the match because they are unwilling to actually hear me out and see how it works. Why? because Jhin's page doesnt say "Support" On it, so How DARE I try and actually be an individual and adapt him to a support role.

This is what i mean, The dogmatic, religious, and cult like attitude of the "approved meta" This is who you can play according to your role this is what you can build according to your role this is HOW you can play according to your role

any individual strategies or personal playstyles are strictly forbidden (unless the pros do it later on, then we will say they came up with it first)

AramsAreBest1 votes

Yeah the main thing that annoys me is the idea that a support has to have some kind of peel/ability to save the ADC. I believe a support is anyone who does not require a large amount of gold to be useful.

Damagefox1 votes

Yes, That is why I have a special Rune/Mastery page For a gold support (about 5.3g per 10) and On top of that I will take items like Ancient coin (if passive jhin support) or Relic Shield If I want to play more aggressive (like bouncing Qs off minions). At least then the execute will both Give Jhin's Q more bite, and still give the Adc the kill gold.

But no one asks me about my strategy, they just scream how I am a troll for not playing a "Proper" or "Real Support" And there is No way to do it properly.

If I Ask them and say "Hey I am going to go support jhin, ok?" and even if I explain it, THey will say no because "Pros dont do it. Its not meta" And if I go for it anyways (some say just take the champ and prove it to them) It still fails and I am unable to prove it because As I mention, I am automatically labeled a "Troll jhin" and ostracized from the rest of the team. No help, no support, and the guarantee that the whole team is going to report me JUST for even daring to take a support jhin, No chance to even prove myself..because META/LCS.

EDIT: I see support as Not Just some disposable kill fodder meant to die so the adc can pick up a kill off the support's corpse, But the support role is a Player who helps the TEAM, NOT JUST THE ADC's Lane-slave!

Supports Can be used to Not only heal and provide vision But supports can also be used to help Lock down kills Provide CC Assist the team in leashing down enemies to last hit to make it easier for them to secure the kill To limit the enemy team's mobility or ability to group To cripple thier ability to escape a teammate.

But most people just see support as "Supports are to be seen and not heard, Thier opinions dont matter. They are just to shut up and heal. And if the match is lost? its thier fault (or the junglers, depending on the day)

AramsAreBest2 votes

Yeah it's really discouraging to play off meta supports because not every game you're going to be fed and prove them wrong. Sometimes you Wont play well then your whole team reports you even though it was just a bad game.

Damagefox2 votes

Yep, But as I said, they create a self-fulfilling prophecy. They have already decided anyone playing off meta is a troll. So they will abandon the support, jungle will refuse to gank bot lane out of spite. They will do everything in thier power to INTENTIONALLY sabotage the off meta support, then turn around and BLAME THE SUPPORT "See, I told you they were a troll!"

Played Supports sinse season 3, and I find the regular supports just...Boring, They are predictable. There is more challenge requred in thinking around an off meta support. And as I said, if the team sabotages you and sends you on tilt, then tell use it to prove themselves right when they were working for that result anyways.

BUT on the rare occation I get an adc willing to be open minded to try, I work my best to see them through and get them fed, and a jhin support is downright BROKEN if played right, chew em up like babyfood and hand them off to adc for last hit Out of adc's range? NOT OUT OF MINE!

Damagefox2 votes

Its about the Mentality that is driving me up the wall. "OMG This person took this champ, REPORT THEM FOR TROLLING" In the meantime games are lost because the player is treated like a heretic or went against the precious meta. More games are lost because League players are getting Less and Less OPEN-MINDED When it comes to individual strategy or playing -anything- that hasnt been Pre-approved and signed off.

Oh You have a particular Champ build that works for you but is outside the approved LCS selection? Who cares if it works for you and wins you games, The "pros" dont do it so dont you dare try it. Call me over reacting if you want but I am getting sick of this mentality that if anyone tries anything that works for them but hasnt been signed off by the "meta authorities" Then you will be labeled a troll, outcast during the match, and ANYTHING you say or do will be used as validation (and your teams will actively Sabotage you in order to prove it) for you being a troll.

You go bot and play off meta. Jungle calls you a troll. Jungle refuses to gank your lane or help bot lane because you went outside the meta. you get pressued and lose lane. Jungle uses that as validation that YOU are the troll and then starts screaming "See Told you he was a troll, look at him feed" when alot of the deaths could have been avoided by a gank.

but its BECAUSE you built or played something that No one else even wants to open up to the possibility of that you are deemed an outside and cut off from the rest of the team. No one wants to help you, and anything you do will be seen as validation that you are trolling.

So yeah, call it overreacting, Or call it trying to bring attention to an almost Dogmatic cult-like mentality of players sabotaging thier team for having individual thoughts and strategies. And yes I have actually been reported for playing support jhin because "You are supposed to play a champ assigned to you by your ROLE" Aka "Sonas and Sorakas For supports, Darius and Volibears for Top lane, Shacos and Kha'zix's for Jungles...And dont you DARE Play anything outside the approved champion selection list according to your role"

rand0mredneck1 votes

{quoted}

Its about the Mentality that is driving me up the wall. "OMG This person took this champ, REPORT THEM FOR TROLLING" In the meantime games are lost because the player is treated like a heretic or went against the precious meta. More games are lost because League players are getting Less and Less OPEN-MINDED When it comes to individual strategy or playing -anything- that hasnt been Pre-approved and signed off.

Oh You have a particular Champ build that works for you but is outside the approved LCS selection? Who cares if it works for you and wins you games, The "pros" dont do it so dont you dare try it. Call me over reacting if you want but I am getting sick of this mentality that if anyone tries anything that works for them but hasnt been signed off by the "meta authorities" Then you will be labeled a troll, outcast during the match, and ANYTHING you say or do will be used as validation (and your teams will actively Sabotage you in order to prove it) for you being a troll.

You go bot and play off meta. Jungle calls you a troll. Jungle refuses to gank your lane or help bot lane because you went outside the meta. you get pressued and lose lane. Jungle uses that as validation that YOU are the troll and then starts screaming "See Told you he was a troll, look at him feed" when alot of the deaths could have been avoided by a gank.

but its BECAUSE you built or played something that No one else even wants to open up to the possibility of that you are deemed an outside and cut off from the rest of the team. No one wants to help you, and anything you do will be seen as validation that you are trolling.

So yeah, call it overreacting, Or call it trying to bring attention to an almost Dogmatic cult-like mentality of players sabotaging thier team for having individual thoughts and strategies. And yes I have actually been reported for playing support jhin because "You are supposed to play a champ assigned to you by your ROLE" Aka "Sonas and Sorakas For supports, Darius and Volibears for Top lane, Shacos and Kha'zix's for Jungles...And dont you DARE Play anything outside the approved champion selection list according to your role"

Again, the report would do nothing. Calm your tits. Unless you're actually trolling, flaming or whatever, the report does NOTHING. It actually puts a mark on the reporter, and makes theiir reports have less impact.

Damagefox1 votes

And tell me, how the hell are we going to counter this mentality untill we bring it into the light. You are basically saying "It doesnt do anything so shut up and dont talk about it anymore" You dont like the topic so you dont want to talk about it.

Again, even if the reports do nothing, it is still the idea that people are unwilling to open thier minds, unwilling to try anything that hasnt been decreed acceptable by the "Pro Meta/LCS Bible" Only way to counter this is to bring it out into the open and dispell the idea that you CAN be reported for playing an off meta champ. Cant dispell it if we dont bring it up.

rand0mredneck1 votes

{quoted}

And tell me, how the hell are we going to counter this mentality untill we bring it into the light. You are basically saying "It doesnt do anything so shut up and dont talk about it anymore" You dont like the topic so you dont want to talk about it.

Again, even if the reports do nothing, it is still the idea that people are unwilling to open thier minds, unwilling to try anything that hasnt been decreed acceptable by the "Pro Meta/LCS Bible" Only way to counter this is to bring it out into the open and dispell the idea that you CAN be reported for playing an off meta champ. Cant dispell it if we dont bring it up.

I've already explained how it does nothing. I don't know what else you want.

Dynikus2 votes

I mean this in the nicest way possible, perhaps given your win rate with jhin as a support, you might want to try playing more standard supports in ranked and leave the more unusual picks to normals? I understand you want to play the game your way, and that's totally fine. But in ranked, there's certainly a more competitive mindset, and picking champions in a role they're not intended for certainly puts your team at a disadvantage. Whether you agree or not, champions are better in certain roles than others, and the meta is the way it is for a reason.

Damagefox2 votes

I do well with a jhin support, won my last game because had an adc who was actually open minded enough to try it out. And guess what...WE WON. Win record is not a reflection of the individual, it is a reflection of the TEAM. You are using the win/loss record as a TEAM game to judge me as an INDIVIDUAL. Again, I do well enough when I have teammates willing to actually give it a shot. But most of the times I get teammates who Do not want me to play to my strengths, they want me to play what EVERYONE ELSE PLAYS. And if I dare to even try something different, they will throw a temper tantrum, abandon lane, Intentionally feed, afk, cuss and swear, call for reports, or just idle at base. and guess what...That has a reflection on the ENTIRE TEAM. So basically what you are saying is that because Some little kid has a tantrum and throws the match because I have a different strategy than them, I should just shut up and play a "real" or "proper" support rather than playing a strategy that works for ME.

I am sorry but I am not going to "shut up and fall in line" just because some little kid who follows the LCS too hard has a tantrum and afks at spawn because I have MY OWN strategy (Had a Jungler Yi who did this, had a fit and cost us the match). Yes I play off meta, But I am in the competitive mindset. But just because some little kid has a fit over someone playing thier own strategy and not falling in line with the prefered role, judge the off meta player. I play strategic, I play competitive. But standard Supports BORE ME. Been playing them for 3 seasons. I wanted a new challenge, I like the strategy of playing off meta supports and make it work for me. But BECAUSE its Off meta and someone has a problem with me being a "non-conformist", somehow its MY fault if they throw a fit and sabotage the team?! (the previously mentioned Afks, tantrums, idles, trolling, flaming, or in the case of jungle, refusal to gank lanes) You are using the TEAMS win/Loss ratio to judge ME as an Individual.

Dynikus3 votes

I'm sorry if you took offense to what I said, but losing a vast majority of your games playing a certain champion in a role does reflect on how well you play that champion in that role. It's easy to blame your team and say they're the reason you lost a game, but ultimately the only common factors in your games is you. Jhin really doesn't offer anything that a support is supposed to, and by leaving your team without the things a support brings to the table, you are putting your team at a disadvantage. If the standard support champions bore you, perhaps queue up as a different role instead? Like try going adc if you want to play Jhin.

Amasa Delano1 votes

Jhin offers some things a support is supposed to (peel, slows, cc), but not everything a support can offer (heals, shields, etc).

I agree with the rest of what you said.

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

This is nothing new.

Breaking the meta is basically just a shitty situation for everyone involved. The meta is how we play the game. By breaking it you are doing something that the overwhelming majority(in my experience) of players don't want and doing so without their consent is inconsiderate. While you are free to pick what you want, but you are doing something that you know most people hate so you shouldn't exactly be surprised when it happens. That said you are free to pick whatever you want. But let's be real here. Support jihn isn't some amazing thing you discovered. It's just a random idea you had that you have fun with.

Damagefox1 votes

And what about the people who play other established off meta roles. Its not about the people who play off meta, but everyone is so hung up on LCS and "Standard Meta" that even bringing up trying anything outside the "proper" role is considered sacrilage and automatically gets you labeled a troll I have explained my intention clearly and made all my arguements, I would tell people that I win matches. And they would basically tell me that they "Dont care how many matches you won with it" and that all that matters is that I "play the proper roles like everybody else" so see, they dont care about even taking my arguements into consideration, they are against it right from the start and are unwilling to even hear it or try it because its now how "Everybody else plays"

So yeah, you can call me inconsiderate all you want but it doesnt matter How reasonable my arguement is, they show they have no interest in actually even hearing about it and wouldnt give concent under any circumstance. Why? because its not how the pros do it, its not how everyone else does it. And the fact that I have a play style that works for ME and helps me win my games doesnt matter. The moment I try and prove it to them, I am automatically labeled a troll and branded as an outsider, cut off from the rest of the team. Because they never had any intention to actually let me have a chance to prove myself in the first place. Also, regardless of who came up with it, it works for me and my matches (that is when my team has an open mind and isnt acting like a bunch of preschool toddlers throwing a temper tantrum and tossing toys across the room) But league has become just that, the equivelant of babysitting cranky toddlers who need to go take a nap.

Dynikus1 votes

But you don't really win a lot of matches with it. You've won some, but more likely because you had good teammates/bad opponents than because support jhin is a good pick. In all honesty, I would most likely dodge a game if I saw Jhin support in the pregame lobby. I'm really curious what in his kit you think makes him right for the support role?

Damagefox1 votes

Well with the way I play, much like a constant source of chipping away. With his Q I can get just close enough to bounce a grenade off one or two minions, and not only constantly chip away at the Adc but the support as well. I have had a few well timed Qs where I have gotten the enemy adc and support down enough to actually give my ADC a double kill, and on a rare occation even got an enemy jungler in to make it a triple. Yes jhin does take some change in how he is played, But I play a sort of hit and run much like an actual sniper, I am not focused on one place, but constantly looking for ways to distract and make a pest of myself. Go in, poke, sneak An E behind them, poke some more. Lure them into the E and W them for a stun, then A few Well placed Qs and they are pretty much ready for Adc to come in for clean up. It is hard to maintain A constant ability to CS if you are getting hit from all angles, and Even the support next to you could have a dancing grenade bounced off thier head to do some heavy damage to enemy adc.

Jhin is useful as a form of Leash support, his kit has alot of CC in it, slows and stuns to help either slow down escaping enemies or keep enemies from getting two close. Even his ult if timed right can be used as a gap closer. He has 4 shots, And if an ult is timed right it can be used not so much to help HIM secure the kill, but be used to slow the enemy just enough for his team to close the gap while the enemy is not only slowed but also getting alot of damage taken as well. Even if he doesnt finish them off, in most cases he can at least chip away at about 3/4 of thier health while slowing them to a crawl. This allows his team plenty of time to close in and finish them off. Also works if they are trying to escape, If Support jhin sees an enemy is about to get away, he can fire a couple shots just enough to help teammates close in and secure the kill.

His W can be used both as a form of Early Warning and as its prep for a stun.

Support isnt just about How someone can provide buffs and heals to thie ALLY team, but also how they can also help cripple the enemy team. Is the enemy moving too fast? set down E and lead them over it for a stun. as I said I play Support as the equivelant of a Sniper on the roof during a swat raid. They have a sniper watching thier back. And there to help provide cover for an escape, to limit the enemy movement while constantly chipping away at them to serve as a distraction as well as making it easier for ADC to get kills and Harder for the enemy to focus on thier CS when, as I said, at any moment they can take damage from a Q being bounced off a minion or thier own support .

You asked How I play him? This is how.

Dynikus1 votes

I'm sorry, but all you described is basically playing him as his intended role, adc, without actually dealing much damage or securing kills for yourself and thus not carrying or really supporting your team. Rather than play a adc/support in the bot lane, all you're doing is making it double adc. While you don't have to follow the meta, not following it will cost you more games than it will win you. There are champs that can be played successfully in unintended roles, like leona or ekko top, or Annie support. Jhin support isn't one such example though. You're not going to get banned for picking it, but I wouldn't expect to not get flak for it, or to climb the ladder with it. If you insist on playing jhin support, you might as well build him as adc, since you'll be almost worthless to your team otherwise. For example, in one game you built Zeke's harbinger, face of the mountain, righteous glory, and black cleaver, none of which really have any place on a jhin in any role, and was most likely the reason you lost that game. Even statikk shiv should have likely been swapped for a rfc.

Damagefox1 votes

Well considering The number of games I have run into so far where The ADCs tend to initially flip out even at the mere Thought of a jhin support, that is kind of a dual purpose. If the enemy escapes the adcs grasp, I am able to at least make sure they dont get away from me. I dont know how many times I need to repeat myself but it works -for me-. Sure it may not work for everyone, but it works for my play style. You mention Not securing kills. Yes, I do secure kills IF the adc is unable to secure it. But What you say is one of the problems alot of people seem to have. SUPPORT ROLE IS NOT FOCUSED ON KILLS. you cripple the enemy? great. You provide vision? Wonderful. But WHo cares about Any of that help you provide to the team, You arent 15/0 like the rest of the team. Yeah because I am Sacrificing a majority of the effort of getting KILLS in order to help PUSH THE TEAM.

Support role is Not a role that is focused on getting YOURSELF kills, its focused on helping secure kills, Provide vision, and make the lane easier for YOUR TEAM. Supports sacrifice kill Items for the sake of Items Like shields for teammates, Relic shield (face of the mountain) and sightstone. That means they are sacrificing thier own kill potential in order to help secure kills for the rest of the team. It really makes me sick that the idea you are going with is "Unless you have most kills, you are worthless to your team". "You are useless to your team unless you take all the kills for yourself"

If All you care about is who has the most kills, who can capture the most enemy pieces, then you cannot see the checkmate. Yes I do get kills now and then, I take what I can get, But as a support my job is focused on crippling the enemy and pushing my team forward, not sitting around and bragging about how I have the most kills on the team.

Dynikus1 votes

I hate to repeat myself, but no, it really doesn't work for you. If it did, you would have higher than a 25% win rate with it. You can blame your team if you want, but again, you are the only common factor in your games. You can buy support items, but you're not actually going to support your team, because that's really not what jhin's kit is about, and the items you buy aren't contributing much of anything to the champion or to the team. And I really don't see where you're pulling all the nonsense about needing the most kills or else you're useless from, I never said nor implied anything of the sort. I was saying a jhin that doesn't deal damage is virtually useless, and if you want to play him in the role, you would be more successful building damage items. If the only reason you feel he makes sense as a support is his poke and his slows, there are champions that much, much better accomplish that.

Damagefox1 votes

and again, You are using the winrate of a TEAM to evaluate the INDIVIDUAL. If my team has a temper tantrum, throws a fit, and feeds the team because "meta". Then somehow that is MY fault for THIER actions. They dont like something thier team does and they decide "I am gonna abandon lane and go feed the enemy" and somehow that is MY fault they choose to feed the enemy team to the point the enemy can 1-shot. Stop acting like you know EVERYTHING about what qualifies as support and what doesnt. Support is about helping the team get kills, not always getting the kills yourself. And yeah, you did "Build adc or you'll be almost worthless to the team otherwise"

And yeah, Poke and Slows, CC and leash...wait for it....ARE FORMS OF SUPPORT. Keeping the enemy where you want them so the ally team can reach them. Keeping them from getting too far away or too close. Why do you think I said ADAPTING HIM TO PLAY AS SUPPORT. Its called strategy.

Again Stop using the TEAM winrate to try and invalidate an INDIVIDUAL. In a team game if one person has a temper tantrum and decides they are going to afk, that has an effect on THE REST OF THE TEAM.

Dynikus1 votes

I'm not using the team's winrate, I'm using yours as an individual. Your individual winrate with support jhin is 25%. If you're proficient with playing a champion in a role, you should be able to win about half of your matches with it. If you're well below 50%, then that should tell you that picking that role and playing it the way you are is hurting your teams chances of winning, and contributing to your lower winrate. Picking jhin support isn't "strategic". It's just picking whatever champion you want because you feel like playing him. If you wanted to play "strategically", you would follow the meta, since it's undeniably what people have found works best at the given point in a game. Saying playing Jhin support is strategy would be like saying swapping your knights out for pawns is "strategy". It's just shooting yourself and your team in the foot. I'm done debating the topic, you can choose to do what you want to do, and you can continue to blame your team for your losses instead of trying to grow as an individual. But don't be surprised when your team accuses you of trolling when you pick something that's objectively not a good fit for a role, and then build items not fit for the champion, and don't be surprised when you don't climb out of b5. If you want to do well with him, build him with damage. You'll be doing the exact same things you're doing currently, but instead of just slowing, you'll be doing a lot of damage as well, which is what jhin excels at. To relate it to your rooftop sniper example, snipers sit in the back lines picking things off from afar with high powered rifles. What role in league does that sound like, a person that sits in the back line dealing a lot of damage to the enemy?

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

"Ive won some games" isn't really a meaningful argument. Everything can be won with, it is its impact on the chances to win that people are talking about. You are right that most of these people probably don't care about any reasoning you could give, but let's be honest there isn't much reasoning for choosing jihn support other than you like it. Having a jihn support is objectively a detriment to the team. He doesn't offer anything that a mage wouldn't offer something similar but do better with.

It isnt about what the pros are doing. If you want to point the finger at anything it should probably be things like lolkings winrate stats.

The meta is the way people play the game. The unwritten structure of how the game is played. The way you walk into a Mcdonalds with a straight counter with 5 registers and people just line up. Nothing tells you to do it, you just know thats what you do.

People are definitely too quick to label people trolls and specifically off meta players, but I don't really feel like I can totally blame them for taking issue with the guy unilaterally deciding to go outside the norm just because he feels like it. The off meta pick is essentially the guy cutting in line.

You have a 25.5% win rate with jihn and are bronze 5. Im curious what makes you think its working for you or in any way helping you win. Jihn is actually your lowest win rate of any champion you have played more than 10 games with. Looking at your stats it seems pretty clear that you wins are largely despite the fact that you are jihn, not because of the pick.

Woodsy25752 votes

You're probably the asshole who plays support tryndamere

Damagefox2 votes

Never tried it before, but I will have to analyze the character and see how to make it work, studying what can be done, what cant be done...How it could be -adapted-. And if it doesnt work? well i tried. If it does...well who knows. I am not an asshole, I am just a strategic player who likes the mental stimulation of seeing where an off meta support shines and where it has flaws that can be covered through other means (build, summoners, masteries, runes, etc)

But hey, thanks for the idea, I will have to look into it.

Kei1431 votes

If I'm against an All AD comp, I'd consider support tryndamere.

-100AD from lvl5 mocking shout is pretty strong.

AraMoOse1 votes

Hyperbole is the worst thing in the world.

Kei1431 votes

[deleted]

Damagefox2 votes

Thats what I do, But its sort of a "Damned if I do, damned if I dont" thing I am screwed either way just for even bringing it up. People seem to expect me to sit there and ask politely just so my team can say "OMG No u troll! HEY! Ban Jhin! we dont want jhin support! OMG u troll! jhin gets banned

If I wait till after Ban: "OMG jhin support?! WTF NO, TROOOOOOLLL GG Report report" ANd then in game I will be ignored, flamed sabotaged "/all report troll jhin, wont play a real support" or Jungler refusing ganks on bot lane, refusing to help a "Troll" lane. Then when bot gets pressured and harrassed by frequent enemy ganks from enemy jungler "see, I told you, troll feeder jhin, report report!" and then some members of my team with have a temper tantrum, with afks, flames, harrassments, etc.

But Hey, if the team has a temper tantrum and refuses to play or even give me a chance and we lose. That automatically means that JHIN SUPPORT DOESNT WORK! why? Because win/loss record. Yeah, they use the win/loss record to punish the individual for the actions of the TEAM. I play serious, not my fault my team wants to be preschoolers and have a temper tantrum because I wont play the champ THEY want, or play how THEY want. (which is usually "Play a PROPER SUPPORT/REAL SUPPORT")

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

It's been a problem since season 1, and slowly escalated as riot keeps shoving their esports into people's faces. They used to balance champions for general play, both in lane & teamfights; but in the last few years they've been forcefully reworking & altering champions to only be played particular ways. I rant in more detail here; http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/b1UAVuBF-riot-remember-what-you-said-when-you-nerfed-sejuani-and-cinderhulk?comment=0002 But don't take only my word for it. http://www.pvpdatabase.com/?p=468

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