RIot should stop focusing of kills and deaths in game play.

Kartagia·Sep 24, 2016·3 votes·907 views

Hello,

Riot should stop people focusing on kills vs. death. They should make it more apparent how gold gain works. Every season even less people seems to understand how gold gain works, but there is strong belief that kills vs. deaths matters. This is really sad, as K/D/A has nothing which is goal of the game. It is just risky PVP gold. And Riot should make it bannable from ranked for use of K/D as sign of feeding or good or bad play. And do it in forums too.

Riot should start focusing teaching people facts: this is team game and team game first. Personal K/D/A has quite little to do with it. Team work and what happens to team is more important. Too few players get this.

11 Comments

DynikusSep 24, 20162 votes

Kills vs deaths does matter. It's not the only thing that matters, or even the most important statistic, but to pretend it doesn't matter at all is just as ignorant as thinking it's the only thing that matters.

KartagiaSep 24, 20161 votes

I have to disagree, as situation of the death matters more. Way more. And that is the problem why challengers cannot win vs. lcs. They are too tightly preventing being killed instead of calculating real loss and win for team. Also, Kills vs. Death ignore executed events. IT also only gives end of game statistics without any weight when and how the death occur. It is like Tribunal sanitation of chat - all relevant information is removed.

If you think Kills vs. Death matter a lot, you are not very skilled tactically in this game. You do the standard mistake of MMO players: thinking it is perfect action or no action at all. That limits your evaluation to local maximums, and prevents you seeing global maximums for team.

RyuyahSep 24, 20161 votes

Kills vs deaths does matter. It's not the only thing that matters, or even the most important statistic

If you think Kills vs. Death matter a lot

You should probably read more carefully

KartagiaSep 25, 20161 votes

It matters less than creep kills. It does matter less than towers. It does matter very little, but everyone who cannot grasp facts and complex things assume it matters lot. It does not. It is actually least important. Assists express team play ability. Creep kills is more important than Kills vs. Death.

Kills vs. Death gives you really crude and misleading view of game. It is easy way, that is why everyone take it. You skipped ALL of my questions. Could you answer to my questions? I bet you cannot. I have given solid argument why Kills vs. Death is wrong way of assessing what happened and how game went.

IivaitteSep 24, 20162 votes

Its complicated.

As a spectator sport, K/D/A is what excites people. All the important statistics are on the board when they host the tournaments. I once made a similar comment before but yes CS actually matters more than most kills, if you are significantly ahead. In lcs a lot of engages start because generally someone is managing a higher cs count than their opponents and they need to push them out of lane. Its not so much killing them for the kill itself, but rather to put them out of the game for a short period of time, costing them gold and exp because of the time they could be in lane.

As I've always told people:

First Kill>First Turret>Turret>Kill>Assist

Rather than think of the kill, think about the death for the opponents. 1 turret>15 cs= 1 kill 1 turret = ~ 3 kills (because of global gold)

Takes about 10-20 seconds to walk back to lane depending on movement speed. Each wave spawns every 30 seconds So that's AT LEAST 2 waves of minions you miss out on for not being alive, or not having someone farm it while you're dead, depending on the Jungler. Though a turret is global gold, so it will help other lanes if you can take it.

Now dragon is a different beast in its entirety but I can give a rough estimate on what they are worth. each of the dragons effects based on items with similar effects are at least worth 2000 gold each, that's over 2 penta kills. Cloud however is probably worth like 4 deaths, not really all that special cost wise tbh, but the utility is worth getting back to lane to farm more.

Now Something that is really personal for me is assists, people don't appreciate assists. Every assist is worth half the gold rewarded. That means that if you have an adc with 5/1/0 and a support with 0/1/11, then the gold the support gained from assists is more than the adc gained from kills. So the formula for kda looks a bit like this:

A(0.5)+K/D = KDA Ratio

If you find this information useful, spread it to others.

KartagiaSep 24, 20161 votes

Really good post. IT still has one major flaw: it is inaccurate to count gold gain and gold given to enemy from this. The order of kills and deaths matters a lot due killings sprees and reduced gold gain from dying sprees without kills. This is main reason why K/D/A is really bad, and why most players are quite clueless of real tactical goals of the game. They want to kill enemies as this is PVP MMO. And that leads to big mistakes like chasing enemy and losing opportunity to push or defend towers.

IivaitteSep 24, 20161 votes

you are right, that is why this is a rough estimate. I could never give an accurate depiction without an exact scenario. This is more in general. Also you are right about peoples motives, people don't see this as a game about gold. While it is very much all about gold and experience. Luckily the higher you rank, the less this becomes an issue in game.

KartagiaSep 24, 20161 votes

Actually this game is not about gold. That is also common mistake. There are way more complex tactical values. This game is game for towers and nexus. Dragons have become way more important and baron got changed, but many players have not yet grasped the changes on warding limiting them to 3 per champion.

IMHO Heroes of the Storm is less tactical, but it has more player visible tactical elements they can notice. LoL has way deeper tactics, but it is hard to get. And riot focus on "we want more kills" make seeing those tactical elements even harder. It is sad that community and Riot draconian punishment policy without really trying to solve the problem is ruining a game which is mechanically brilliant and more balanced than any other game I have tried.

Telephone BoothSep 27, 20161 votes

Damn man what ELO are you in? I've always known k/d isn't the goal... obviously it's not a game of team death match... but the shit you guys are talking about is pretty deep. I guess riot does need to express the goals to win a little better... but then again, that's what strategy videos are for. If people really wanna know, they can always YouTube.

Edit: btw, good post. I hope the discussion continues.

KartagiaSep 27, 20161 votes

I am living proof MMR system does not work. 10 intentaionl feeder matches down from sivler 4 to bronze 3. IT is almost impossible to climb with support only play due totally toxic environment of EUNE. Even EUNE support seems to think flaming on support is not a crime, as nothing is done to it. On good game I only report 3 plaeyrs out of 9 other players due flaming. Normal game is 4 to 6 reports.

The Riot "Flamers lose 23% more matches" should be "Team mates of flamers lose 23% more matches. Flamers are relieved from quilt". I get constant flame of "wrong spells" or "wrong champ" or "creep kill" or "Kill stealign" or "feeding" when I have died least in my team.

The way how supports are treated is reason why there is so few even decent support players. If adc makes mistake, it is fault of support who did not save him. Bottom is won, it is due good work of adc, not support. And if support decides there is nothing to be gained by going bottom due toxic adc, team sides with flamer, not support. Normal bully game. And RIot "Mute and enjoy" is totally wrong. It gives flamer total freedom to rally everyone against support. HE cannto defend himself.

Only way to stop rules breakers: make intentioanl feeder lose lots and GIVE IT TO VICTIMS. Give all lost LP and MMR to victims and make that side public. Riot should show THEY do follow summoner's code themselves and defend and boost victims.

Telephone BoothSep 27, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I am living proof MMR system does not work. 10 intentaionl feeder matches down from sivler 4 to bronze 3. IT is almost impossible to climb with support only play due totally toxic environment of EUNE. Even EUNE support seems to think flaming on support is not a crime, as nothing is done to it. On good game I only report 3 plaeyrs out of 9 other players due flaming. Normal game is 4 to 6 reports.

The Riot "Flamers lose 23% more matches" should be "Team mates of flamers lose 23% more matches. Flamers are relieved from quilt". I get constant flame of "wrong spells" or "wrong champ" or "creep kill" or "Kill stealign" or "feeding" when I have died least in my team.

The way how supports are treated is reason why there is so few even decent support players. If adc makes mistake, it is fault of support who did not save him. Bottom is won, it is due good work of adc, not support. And if support decides there is nothing to be gained by going bottom due toxic adc, team sides with flamer, not support. Normal bully game. And RIot "Mute and enjoy" is totally wrong. It gives flamer total freedom to rally everyone against support. HE cannto defend himself.

Only way to stop rules breakers: make intentioanl feeder lose lots and GIVE IT TO VICTIMS. Give all lost LP and MMR to victims and make that side public. Riot should show THEY do follow summoner's code themselves and defend and boost victims.

Damn you should get on NA and lane with me then... I used to main support so I'm one of those rare adcs that doesn't flame my support.

Just the other night my thresh got the first 2 kills and apologized and all I said was no man u did what u had to do its all good. As long as support isn't taking creeps or "helping" by trying to shove lane, which means hitting creeps to lower them for me to last hit (which usually results in me missing cs cuz now idk which one to hit first cuz the support keeps hitting em, God do I hate that), I try to build up my support and keep things positive chat wise.

As a former blitz/leona/Braum player, I understand the woes of a support and I don't act like mistakes that I make are the supports fault.