Its Just a Normal

Râmmus Bot·May 31, 2017·2 votes·519 views

I had a game with a midlane bard who went full AD, fed super hard and said "Its fine its a normal". Then right after i got a twisted fate jungle who built tank attack speed AP hybrid and when questioned said "bc normal". Note both these people never asked "is it ok if i play x and x". However my question is, just because its normal am i allowed to play anything i want anywhere i want however i want? Even without my teams consent since its just a normal game anyways? like say full movement speed warwick mid or full AP support j4? Its not ranked or anything so i shouldn't get in trouble at all.

48 Comments

sardiniiiJun 1, 20172 votes

This is a grey area in my oppion. I think its stupid to say "its just a normal", because its still a full length game of league.

I think you should report them

ChermorgMay 31, 20171 votes

Be honest with us, you aren't really asking "Can I troll and not get in trouble at all?"

You're really asking "Why did Riot not immediately and permanently ban these people then notify me of their punishment?"

Did you report? If not, how will Riot know to look at the games.

If you did report, keep in mind manual bans aren't notified via instant feedback notifications, thus not getting a notification doesn't mean they weren't punished.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

No, i did report these people, and i legitimately want to know is it ok to do whatever i want just because its a normal game? I would love to know if these people got punished, i dont care what they got punished with i just want to know that they did. But there is so many people that pull this crap am i wrong in thinking its trolling? Or is it actually ok to do whatever just because its normals, because everyone who does this says "bc normals bro"

ChermorgMay 31, 20171 votes

You aren't wrong. It's trolling. You won't find out if they got punished unless it was an instant feedback computer punishment. Manual punishments are never notified.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

He is wrong. Look it up. Look up attack speed bard and jungle tf. They're off-meta builds that I've personally seen people succeed with.

ChermorgMay 31, 20171 votes

I was commenting on "full movement speed warwick mid" and "full ap j4 support". Furthermore, off meta builds/tactics, if they are not communicated with the team well, and if they ruin the game for others, are certainly punishable, see support nunu.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

I've made this distinction several times but I want to stress it. Communicating with the team does not mean you have to ask permission to play off meta. I'm not saying this for you, just in general for anyone who reads this.

But my bad, I assumed you were talking about the bard and tf builds when you weren't.

I thought people agreed that nunu was actually trolololling?

ChermorgMay 31, 20171 votes

I think people (and Riot after discussing with him in private) agreed that he wasn't trolling, nor trying to harm the game, but was. He thought he was helping by not talking much and ignoring chat, but the point Riot made was that if you're going to play an off meta build, you have to let your team know what you are and are not capable of becuase most people are used to meta builds and meta play styles.

If people don't communicate about their off meta build, it begins to venture into the world of punishable depending on some other factors such as number of games, egregiousness, and if Riot thinks a talk will suffice.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

Right, they should let their team know so that their team can work with them. Not because they have to.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

I never see riot punish people and they give me no clues that the current system works, atleast they dont want to show me, so i dont know if people actually are punished for things like this.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

They're not punished for things like this.

ChermorgMay 31, 20171 votes

If it was trolling or intentionally ruining your game, they may have been warned/punished via a manual review, but you wouldn't get notice because instant feedback cards are only for automatic punishments.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

Yeah. Thats where i was getting at with "i never see them punish people, and they dont give me any clues that the system works". I like the term "seeing in believing" https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/aFmEtAVK-riot-should-add-monthly-status-cards

Telephone BoothMay 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Thats where i was getting at with "i never see them punish people, and they dont give me any clues that the system works". I like the term "seeing in believing" https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/aFmEtAVK-riot-should-add-monthly-status-cards

"Seeing in believing" is not a term, and it doesn't even make sense. I think you're thinking of "Seeing IS believing".

Râmmus BotJun 1, 20171 votes

Holy fuck some of these people. Sorry for the typo it was fucking two in the morning. And sorry you don't like my opinion, go do your own fucking shit then

Telephone BoothJun 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Holy fuck some of these people. Sorry for the typo it was fucking two in the morning. And sorry you don't like my opinion, go do your own fucking shit then

Lol you're right, sorry. Hahaha sorry dude I'm an ass sometimes and I go back and read this shit like damn, what was up my ass that day?

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

Ad bard and the tf build you're talking about aren't even troll builds. They're just off meta. Bard works great with attack speed and some ad and so does tf. I've been carried by both before, in ranked.

Trolling would be like full critical singed or ad galio. Neither has any synergy with the build, unlike the builds and champs you mentioned.

No matter the type of game, you are allowed to play anything as long as it works and you work with your team. Note that working with doesn't mean the same as asking for consent.

Your teammates shouldn't need your consent to play what they want. Are you really saying teammates need to ask you for your permission to build off meta or you will report them?

ChermorgMay 31, 20171 votes

However, if they don't communicate their intentions and how the playstyle differs from what's normally expected of bard/TF, it becomes punishable when it begins to ruin games for many other players. See nunu support.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

When you play off-meta, sometimes the play style is so different than what people are used to it's easier just to say "follow my lead." Especially for slow typers like me.

However I have an issue with forcing off-meta players to explain their picks. Players should just be doing what gives them the best chance to win. Most of the time that means letting your team know what's going on.

But it's important to realize that riot said that the nunu player should've explained how his pick works so that his team has a better chance of winning. Not because off-meta picks need to be explained. Do you see what I'm saying?

ChermorgMay 31, 20171 votes

If 9 players in a game don't know what's going on, they feel like they have to change what makes them have fun, just to revolve around one person's non-meta pick, it ruins the game for up to 4 other people on the team.

Riot also said that Nunu's lack of communication led to his teams not having fun in his games, and thus indirectly said that not communicating can lead to a ban (by ruining the game for others).

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

Most people have MORE fun in off-meta games. I see people saying that when threads about off-meta builds become popular. And I can for sure tell you most people enjoy the clown fiestas that are my games.

I'm just saying that off-meta players should explain their pick if it'll help their team. There's never a situation where they should explain it just because they have to for playing off-meta.

I'm not sure how I can make the distinction more clear and if you don't see it at this point I'm giving up :/

ChermorgMay 31, 20171 votes

You can make this clear by showing me what evidence, as in hard statistics, you use to back up your claims.

Riot used their vast number of statistics to determine the majority of players playing normal and ranked games with people they do not know enjoy playing meta games, or if there is an off meta pick they expect there to be communication.

I'm not sure why you can't accept what Riot actually said in the Nunu case as Riot's position on the issue. If you don't see it at this point I'm giving up :/

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

A lot of people message me saying that the game they played with me was fun. Lots of people add me after games, allies and enemies. People spectate my games often and generally get a good laugh out of them. You can look at popular threads about off-meta and you will see people saying that those games are more fun.

I know you won't accept that but hey its worth a shot.

You're not understanding my point and you think I am wrong and that you are right because of it. Yet in reality we are not disagreeing, you are just misunderstanding me and it's quite frustrating to be honest.

I am saying that a player DOES NOT HAVE TO explain his pick for the SOLE REAS ON THAT IT IS OFF META. A player SHOULD explain his off meta pick because it often gives his team a better chance at winning and makes them less frustrated.

I know I said I'm giving up but I changed my mind because I know that we're both right and this is just a misunderstanding.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

so rod of ages, razer enchant, and lich bane jungle tf used to be meta and worked? And mid lane full AD bard was indeed used and considered meta?

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

Read my post more carefully, I think you misread.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

And yes, i would like a "hey im playing tf jungle that cool?" and expect them to actually build something that would work.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

What if you say no? Do you expect them to not play it just because you don't want them to? Even if the build works?

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

I would report them if we lost because of them and they did garbage. In both of these cases these players have ruined and lost us the game. The mid lane bard (who afked the first 3 minutes of the game) knew he was fighting a teemo and still went full AD, super fed the teemo and other players and cost us the game. The twisted fate refused to communicate with any of us. He contributed in no way to the team other than pick up a few last hit kills on the enemy team. He did 11,000 damage in that 33 minute game. 10,000 less than the enemy jungler. If your going to do something off meta or looks like it clearly wont work, and it really does end up not working, you should be punished. Just because its a normal game doesn't mean i dont want to win. Thats why when i do off meta stuff i ask if its alright and i do stuff that i know works. When im told no i play what actually does work.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

Let's take this slowly because I'm a little high but I want to have a good discussion.

I'm going to pose a hypothetical situation for the sake of discussion, and together let's work through it to see if we can arrive at some kind of a conclusion.

You queue up for a ranked. Top and jungle. You wait 3 minutes before your queue pops. You accept and now you're in lobby. Your support is hovering yorick and says "I play support yorick, is that ok?"

Now you have a few options. You can dodge but let's leave that out since it'll kill the point of the discussion. You can say yes or you can say no. Which do you say? And what do you expect your support's reaction to be?

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

If this is ranked i check to see that they A) actually play support B) have experience with yorick and or do play him support. Then assuming everyone is fine with it im fine with it. If i said im fine with it, if they do bad im not reporting them. If i say "it doesnt look like you play support and or yorick please dont." They will probably instalock anyways without communicating. they play it and do bad im reporting them.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

I am a rammus main with 300k+ points with him. I mastered him in every lane and role (before the rework that utterly destroyed him). If i went into a ranked game i explained myself and asked if it was ok and communicated with my team. Whether if i ended up rammus support or went with something else that everyone was comfortable with

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

I'm not trying to shit on your experience but I honestly think that you should not have to ask permission to play the champ you want in the role you want.

Edit: Bro you're silver, isn't it a bit presumptuous to say you've mastered rammus in every role? Made me think you were master tier lol

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

So basically if it looks like they know what they're doing, no report. But if they don't know what they're doing, yes report. That seems logical to me.

Now here's another hypothetical.

This time let's assume the same scenario. Except this time your support says, "I play support yorick," and then your support explains how to play with the pick and locks it in. In this situation what do you do and how do you expect your support to react?

Edit: thanks for indulging me so long, I'm just a lunatic who likes to pick at people's brains

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

Again if this was ranked which i am a lot more serious about i would prefer they have experience. In which case it would be the exact same scenario as last. Now if it was a normal game, they explained how to play with it and how its played, and everyone was ok with it, then fine. If i wasnt ok with it and thought it was super sketch and no one else agreed, they do it anyways, and do garbage, i have issues with it.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

In your first case the support asked consent and in the second didn't, however, your response is the same in both situations. Interesting, so you see that it makes no difference whether a player asks for permission or not?

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

I knew how to play rammus in every role and lane. I mained him since i started playing in season 3. The 300k points i have with him of course only apply when the update came out that added mastery. That doesnt include the other account or two i have had where i played him. Im pretty confident that im allowed to say i have mastered rammus regardless of what my rank is, also taking into account that the majority of my ranked games i am playing with trolls or flamers. I dont know your rank because i have not looked but im sure that at some point you understand.
Knowing that in the second scenario i would be pretty pissed off that he instalocked his champion without talking to us about it first. Nothing i can do without dodging. Now if he were to actually communicate unlike 3/4 of the league of legends community would, ok. Id still probably report him if i knew he had no experience with yorick and or support and he did bad. If he instalocked yorick and actually talked to me about it, that would help the situation. i would still be kinda pissed. In this case lets say he was telling the truth and knew what he was doing. He contributed to the team and did good. Great. He fed because he did not communicate with the team im reporting.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

I think it's safe to say you haven't mastered rammus if you can't hit high ranks with him. You're allowed to say whatever you want but that doesn't make it true,

In the second scenario the support explains how to make use of the pick before locking in. It's still not good enough?

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

Rammus isnt the worlds greatest solo que climber. i could get fed with him and still need my team to win. Unlike playing with a hyper carry or split pusher.

In the 2nd scenario i was under the assumption he just instalocked then explained. In which case would still kinda piss me off. It would help that they talked to me but they would still get a report if that player did bad.

Edit: If they didnt instalocked and explained it before hand and had experience with it, and everyone thought it was ok, then they wouldnt get a report from me.

my 77th edit: my ranked game shouldnt be decided by someone who thought "i feel like playing trundle support". When i want to play normals and actually stand a chance, not go into this 30 or 40 minute game where no one will surrender and you have to suffer because someone decided a 3 way hybrid tf jungle is perfectly fine off meta champ that works and is good.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

So my point stands that asking for consent realistically makes no difference to you.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

Read my edits i just added in, and your missing what im saying. If they instalock without communication and do bad i report. If they instalock without communication and do good whatever. If they talk to me (and the team) before hand and every says its ok, Whether they do good or not, i wont report. If they talk to me (and the team) and everyone decides no this guy is sketch, and he locks in this off meta weird champion anyways and does bad im reporting him.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

When i go into a game i do what i expect of everyone else. If its ranked i play meta, if its normals and i want to play off meta or something silly i ask.

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

I see. To you, if a player plays off-meta despite explaining his pick he is still at the mercy of his teammates over whether they allow him to play the pick or not. If the pick is agreed to then you wouldn't report under normal circumstances. If the pick is not agreed to and the player plays poorly you will report, but if the player does well then all is forgiven. Correct?

SnakDatSmilesBakMay 31, 20171 votes

I only play norms to warm up and pretty much only play off-meta in ranked. I have around 50 more wins than losses on my main with a 59% winrate. If I explain the pick, but don't ask permission, and do poorly would you report me?

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

Essentially. I go into ranked games wanting to win. I would prefer everyone play meta unless the event comes up that a player convinces me otherwise and everyone agrees. Sometimes I go into normal games wanting to win, Sometimes i go in wanting to have fun with different things if everyone is ok with it, sometimes i go in and see something different and give my ok if everyone else finds it ok.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

Assuming your main is off meta, i would have checked your profile. And i saw that you had a good win rate there are some things i can let slip even if it annoys me. 90% of the time this is not the case. Most of the time its people who for great example, never play bard and decided they wanted to play bard mid full ad against a teemo. Or another great example, went tf jungle building tank attack speed ap hybrid and did extremely poorly and refused to communicate.

Râmmus BotMay 31, 20171 votes

any ways im going to bed. goodnight

Telephone BoothMay 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Rammus isnt the worlds greatest solo que climber. i could get fed with him and still need my team to win. Unlike playing with a hyper carry or split pusher.

So you're really arguing for the fact that you've mastered a champion, even though you're silver rank? There are challenger and master players who could easily carry silver games with rammus. I think you gotta bite the bullet and just accept that you don't have the mechanics and game knowledge to have mastered any champion. You're silver bro, not even like platinum where you would have a better case. You're almost in the lowest league possible in league. Like how can you not accept that you're not that good? Just accept it.

Telephone BoothMay 31, 20171 votes

Yeah if it's in the game, go ahead and try it, just don't take it into ranked. Like really people, when the hell else can we try things outside the meta? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. And fuck bots, that shit is easy even if you go AP taric or AD anivia. I often stop myself from picking something trolly just because I don't wanna hear the bitching from people who came into a NORMAL match, with no consequence on your rank, or stats, with a must win mindset.

That's the problem, sometimes people are on tilt because they keep losing and then they run into me, who just won 3 games and it was kinda boring because it was the same old shit and it didn't even matter cuz it's norms, and I wanna try something different with my friends. Now I'm a troll who "doesn't want to win", because im picking something that I know damn well is not optimal, but sounds fun. Isn't that the point? Play for fun? If you're competitive, go fucking play ranked. Norms are for fun. Yes winning is fun, I will always try to win, but that doesn't mean I have to stay in the meta just because it's "better chances" of winning.