Permabanned? There are reasons Riot tells you you're 0.006% of the community.

Drugoth··96 votes·9,396 views

So, when you get permabanned, Riot tells you that you are part of a very small 0.006% of the community to be consistently or extremely toxic enough to receive the ultimate punishment.

Believe it or not, Riot isn't telling you this just to rub salt in your wounds. They're trying to send you a message.

Think about it this way, how do players get punished? When their peers report them for behavior that they find offensive. So basically if you look at it this way, it's not Riot banning you, it's the community as a whole that provides Riot the information that's needed to determine what kinds of behavior are generally not acceptable to the player base.

At the end of the day, Riot's best interest is to keep their community happy, a happy community will continue to play their game and buy their skins and merchandise.

If that means losing 0.006% of consumers in order to keep the 99.994% of the community happy, doesn't that mean Riot is doing a good job of it?

Just some food for thought for you players that are having a hard time reforming.

198 Comments

Sorin Alucard18 votes

99.994% out of 67,000,000+ Worldwide Players

Drugoth44 votes

Exactly, I mean just look at the scale! If 67 million people think you're an asshole, then chances are you are one xD.

Sorin Alucard27 votes

Maury, the results are in!

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Barcid4 votes

That's actually a gross misrepresentation to begin with, as this statistic that was posted way back when did not exclude smurfs, remade accounts, or otherwise. This was the total amount of "active accounts". This also does not filter between countries, and countries have varying player-bases east Asia having the largest community of all (naturally, why wouldn't they with a third of the world's population?). If I recall correctly, I think the US was even second to Europe, but I don't quite recall all the minute details.

What I do know is that our player-base is not only dwarfed by the east Asian community, but that the US player-base is also held to entirely different standards than the Asian player-base. I believe the European is held to similar but still different standards, but I'd need some kind of confirmation on that. The reason I know the Asian player-base is held to an entirely different standard is because Imp from Samsung White was hailed as quite possibly one of the premiere most toxic players to come out of Korea, often times putting in death threats and insults to people on his team for even giving first blood. He never received bans or repercussions, and was hardly even reprimanded for the majority of incidents with him save a couple.

So if the standards on the Asian circuit are far more lax than on the NA circuit and we are practically dwarfed while also having a consistent flow of false new players - smurfs and remade accounts - we can drop that 67 million count to probably around 10 million maybe? Probably less? I'm sure there's a site here, hang on.

Unfortunately I can only find a sample percentage out of about 10,000,000 (and that being all that was released in earlier years even), and our player-base in NA is currently 6,700,000 approximately this year.

So if we assume different standards in most other places, especially vastly different cultures, we're looking at about a .004 to .005 amount being NA based.

And if we're going off of that... well, the % is 4-5% of our players have been banned. While still an A, fairly certain these statistics are from year to year. We'd need a Riot quote on that. If this is the case, it would mean 4-5% of NA players are banned yearly. Can't say if they're unique or not.

This is also all permanent bans, and doesn't take into account at all chat bans, 14 day suspensions, leaver locks, or otherwise.

In other words, I dunno if this is so much a "good job" as it is a "throw a dart at a board and hack away"... we still also have video evidence of trolls being trolls and getting completely away with it, various instances of people having their accounts compromised and getting banned that way, and otherwise egregious instances of outright questionable behavior from Riot. There's a lot here that's unseen that's difficult to calculate precisely.

What I do know is I still get assholes way too often. Like, the hell...

Firethorn1 votes

Wait thought it was 100 million now?

Leetri3 votes

Yeah since I believe 2016 it's 100 million monthly players. They talk about it in a Forbes article pretty sure.

Mister Support6 votes

Numbers were updated to 100 million last year, most of those newer players coming from introduction of new servers like Japan and also new player influx in China.

Sraeg20133 votes

China has 80+ million players alone.

DuskDaUmbreon18 votes

One thing. Technically, not 100% of those permabans are due to extreme toxicity. Part of them are due to scripting, hacking, chargebacks, and other ToS abuses.

Drugoth12 votes

You're right! My bad. Wait, doesn't that also technically mean that toxic players make up less than 0.006% of the player base? I mean, the number is already ridiculously small as it is!

DuskDaUmbreon10 votes

{quoted}

You're right! My bad. Wait, doesn't that also technically mean that toxic players make up less than 0.006% of the player base? I mean, the number is already ridiculously small as it is!

Well...While it depends on the severity and duration, and a bit on your definition of toxicity...yes.

DrCyanide18 votes

What Riot says:

  • 0.006% permabanned
  • 1/2 of players reform at each punishment tier

Working the math backwards:

  • 0.006% permabanned * 2 = 0.012% get 14 day ban
  • 0.012% 14 day ban * 2 = 0.024% get 25 game chat restriction
  • 0.024% 25 game chat restriction * 2 = 0.048% get 10 game chat restrictions

If we round up to 0.05% to make the math easier, then you end up with:

  • 1 player chat restricted for every 2,000 players
  • 1 player chat restricted for every 200 games
  • 1 teammate chat restricted for 500 games

Now tell me. Do you honestly believe that the negativity in League is so minor that only one teammate in your last 500 games deserved a 10 game chat restriction?

One of the numbers Riot gave us is wrong, and my money is on the 0.006%

Drugoth8 votes

That 0.006% stat is the players that consistently behave in a toxic way or show cases of extreme toxicity.

I never implied that 0.006% is all of the players that are prone to be toxic. Certainly that number would be higher, but that is not what I was talking about.

ARAM ZooKeeper12 votes

it's not Riot banning you, it's the community as a whole that provides Riot the information that's needed to determine what kinds of behavior are generally not acceptable to the player base.

LOL

The League playerbase is the most toxic one on Earth. The reason people report each other isn't because they are offended by mean chat messages, its because they know they can get the other kid suspended. The rage and hate is that real. Pretending like that is us as a community deciding what we want... that's a joke.

If you gave every League player the option to permaban their teammates in the post game lobby you know we would smash that button. Not because the other kids deserved it, but because its League and everyone is at each others throats the second the game is lost.

Drugoth10 votes

Maybe the reason you report someone is to try to get them banned. I can say without a doubt that I have never clicked the report button with salt in my blood.

ARAM ZooKeeper3 votes

Maybe the reason you report someone is to try to get them banned. I can say without a doubt that I have never clicked the report button with salt in my blood.

That doesn't really make sense, since the report button, by nature of being a report button, is for salty people to complain about other players to get them banned.

Drugoth11 votes

No, the function of the report button is to determine which behaviors are deemed unacceptable to the community and deliver punishments based on community input + the hard and fast rules that Riot has already set.

Salty, false reports get thrown in the trash where they belong.

ARAM ZooKeeper4 votes

{quoted}

No, the function of the report button is to determine which behaviors are deemed unacceptable to the community and deliver punishments based on community input + the hard and fast rules that Riot has already set.

Salty, false reports get thrown in the trash where they belong.

If you're deeming behavior "unacceptable"... That is the definition of "salt"

You're saying you aren't salty, its just against the rules. I'm telling you the rules are for kids who are salty.

Drugoth15 votes

I wish you luck in the future with that kind of logic.

HalcyonDweller6 votes

Not really, it is quite easy to objectively think a behavior is "unacceptable" without carrying any personal anger about that behavior.

For example, when my teammates say "gg ez" not a salt in my bone but I'm going to report them for it. Because I know it is hurtful to the enemy team.

On the other hand if the enemy team say's "gg ez" you can bet I'll be salty about it. It's me that was called into question then, and not somebody else.

ThwartinMaPlans8 votes

If you think only 0.006% of the league community is "toxic" I would love to know what game you're playing.

Starcraft243ver4 votes

He implied : Toxic on a regular basis. (aka enough to be perma)

Sraeg20134 votes

You can be toxic on regular basis and not get a single chat restriction.

Drugoth1 votes

That doesn't mean it's okay, it just means you're getting lucky by not getting reported. So if you display that behavior consistently enough though and you will eventually get reported by somebody.

Sraeg20132 votes

I can't see anybody mentioning whenever it's okay or not here, except you.

Also reports =/= punishment. If reports equalled punishment, half of the playerbase would've been banned for feeding by now.

Drugoth1 votes

I never said reports = punishment. I said you can't be punished if you don't get reported (except in the case of scripting/afking of course)

Sraeg20132 votes

Bullshit.

Say "fa**ot" once and watch yourself getting instantly chat restricted without any reports involved.

Drugoth2 votes

Really? That's odd, because I have a really toxic friend in my personal group of friends that likes to rage at me during games (He's an ADC main and I'm a support main).

A couple months ago, in a 5 man premade with him and a few of my buddies, he told me to kill myself multiple times in team chat and called me a f%% too. None of us reported him, he never saw a punishment.

If you can show me proof otherwise, that the bot will scan all games, regardless of the existence of a report, and punish for it, I would be very interested.

Sraeg20131 votes

A couple months ago "kys" was only starting seeing use though.

As for fa**ot... maybe you have to say it twice, I dunno. A number of months ago I did say something like "fucking fa**ot" about an enemy jungler in the team chat and the end game score didn't even load fully before I got a chat restriction, so it doesn't strike me as a requirement to be reported.

Drugoth1 votes

Okay so the enemy jungler couldn't see what you said. We're you in a 5 man premade or no? If you weren't, there is no way you can know if your teammates reported you or not.

Frankly, I would have reported you for saying that if you were my teammate. Sure, it wasn't directed at anyone on the team, and the enemy couldn't see it, but it's still a hateful thing to say.

Sraeg20132 votes

Okay so the enemy jungler couldn't see what you said. We're you in a 5 man premade or no? If you weren't, there is no way you can know if your teammates reported you or not.

I'm saying that the system acted almost instantly after the game ended, so unless somebody spammed the shit out of that report button, they'd be too late.

Frankly, I would have reported you for saying that if you were my teammate. Sure, it wasn't directed at anyone on the team, and the enemy couldn't see it, but it's still a hateful thing to say.

Good that not everybody is subscribing to the Moral Guardian movement.

Drugoth1 votes

{quoted}

I'm saying that the system acted almost instantly after the game ended, so unless somebody spammed the shit out of that report button, they'd be too late.

Everyone gets to the end game lobby at different times, the review system is a bot, it's likely the person that reported you just got to the lobby before you.

Good that not everybody is subscribing to the Moral Guardian movement.

What? What is this Moral Guardian movement? Never heard of it.

Sraeg20132 votes

{quoted}

So, are you calling me one, or not? I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not, hard to convey tone through text.

Your stance is that any usage of the word "fa**ot" warrants punishment. That in turn is in line with the definition of "Moral Guardian", so yes.

Nardewick6 votes

I honestly have to slightly disagree with you on that one. It just can't be that receiving such banns are only 0.006% of all players. I mean we all have players almost every second game that go way out of line with their behavior. I am not only talking about what they do in chat but also about how they apear to play with you. I think most of you play pretty selfish and focused on your own to get resources so you can "carry" the game, but don't really care about how you interact with other players. Do you flash to get a safe kill or take cs from a laner that is behind etc. I think this is already a form of toxity since this is a team game and you should try to play with each other and not on your own, because what you do with that (taking all the resources) you take the opportunity from the other person to win his own game. You decide for him that every fight in the game is up to you to win. You are the one that is fed and if you do misstakes there is nothing he can do about it. Other than that i think Riot is a bit to hard with the chat banns. I am not going to lie i also got one, but i think it wasn't bad at all. When you get a chat bann you see the games that where concidered as toxic on your client, since i couldnt figure out what i did wrong in the games since i only used the chat 6 times in total i asked the riot support and got the answer that saying such things as "i would say wp but bot just carried" or "man that was useless pls listen to me" is toxic bevhavior, because you point at a certan person which is giving the game a bad mood and they will punish such behavior. I have to say this sounds like things they told us when i was 3 years old, this is just rediculous. You are playing a game and to win it you have to make sure all your teammates play to a good level but you are not allowed to tell them what to do better or tell them when they did a mistake and what the mistake was. How in the world can that be a thing. That isnt even disrespecting. I myselfe WANT people correct me, i want to get better and improve my skills and i cant see all my mistakes on my own.

Sorry but i dont think everyone deserves a bann/perma bann

kind regards and sorry for if there are mistakes i am not a native speaker

Nardewick

atigershark6 votes

What a load of bullshit. You say anything in any game nowadays you can get punished. Maybe they should disable chat all together.

sanshaoye5 votes

except that you don't count the % of players who deliberately troll to ruin games and then incite reactions from their team mates so they can report them for a double whammy

i have over 10 accounts across different servers from platinum to unranked. from personal experience, this happens approximately 3 to 4 times per 10 games on the NA server

Drugoth4 votes

Those trolls do eventually get perma banned when they get caught too, so they're part of the 0.006% are they not?

sanshaoye6 votes

no they don't. if you know how to manipulate the system, you can get away scot free with it every time. one proven formula is play passive aggressive e.g. watch a team mate die and not help and when he asks you why you didn't help, post a smiley or something nice. then rinse and repeat. eventually he might take the bait and berate you, which is when you report him at the end. there are obviously many iterations of this formula and it's almost fool proof as long as you don't flame and build the right items

Drugoth2 votes

Are you reporting these players? I have seen them, but they are seriously few and far between.

A dedicated troll will always find ways to irritate players without getting smited. The problem is, when players troll like this, it's hard for the IFS to catch them, because as you said, they go above and beyond to avoid the bot.

So, that said, do you have a suggestion for Riot to effectively fight these trolls, when they can easily be confused for a normal player that sucks when you just look at the match history?

sanshaoye4 votes

yes. from personal playing experience, this happens 3 to 4 games every 10 games. 30-40% is not insignificant. of course you can't just look at me for an accurate statistical mapping but anecdotal data is all i can provide

under the current solo queue system, i don't think much can be done

Drugoth1 votes

I think there may be a slight chance you're mistaking bad players as trolls from time to time then. I'm seriously doubting you're seeing true trolls that often in your games.

sanshaoye4 votes

you can usually tell when people are playing passive aggressive vs just poor play. i have been playing since season 1 and i have more than 10 accounts ranging from platinum to unranked

mikemcparty4 votes

3-4 out of 10 games? doubtful. I have been playing since the s3 and that is nowhere near accurate.

Champion Skin3 votes

Those trolls do eventually get perma banned when they get caught too, so they're part of the 0.006% are they not?

If the trolls know what they are doing then no... Since having a bot check the chat logs is easy compared with having it find things like Tahm, Anivia, Trundle trolling their allies and getting them killed (After all you can't really see it on their stats as it isn't like they are dying a lot they are just causing their allies to die)

Moral Pinnacle5 votes

Yeah, but all those 'assholes' that flame you when they lose a 4v4 after you just solod one of their carries, but hey, its your fault for them losing a 4v4, and you should get flamed for it, and TAKE it without saying a single thing back, and NO those 4 players WILL NOT be punished because YOU are a piece of trash griefer for making THEM lose that 4v4.

Double standards are amazing. I wish I could sit with a riot employee whos in charge of bans, and have him spectate my games, and tell me with a straight face that 50% of the players in my games aren't "toxic" by their standards.

Don't say %%%%%% THOUGH!!! That's a no no.

Drugoth3 votes

Man, it's like the mute and report buttons don't exist to you or something. How do you think you got punished? You got reported. If you want those 4 guys to get punished it's up to you to report them.

G4b1t5 votes

I'll just throw a factor in: the reporting being done fron the community is subjective.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Where's the proof of that .006% number, and how recent is it?

You'd think if that sentiment held true they'd balance the game around the fact that the overwhelming majority aren't plat+, but it doesn't.

Drugoth1 votes

Currently, this number is displayed to all players that receive a permanent ban.

The Ecdysiast4 votes

And is there proof that it's true, or is it one of those things that hasn't been updated in 6 years?

Kinda funny people are just going along with your statement without evidence, and downvote me for being reasonable enough to ask for it.

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