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You don't need a leash from 2 people when starting from a small camp.

Killenea··7 votes·1,756 views

Tell me what you think. Last game I was heimer supp, so I went in lane right away to set up my turrets in the bush. Udyr was at Gromp with the adc. Udyr and the mid laner started bashing me for not giving a leash. I explained that my leash wasn't necessary . When I jungle, one skill and one auto attack from one champ is enough for me to kill a small camp and then continue jungling. Udyr said that he wouldn't gank bot, and he didn't. We were winning the lane hard, my adc had 90 cs while theirs had 20, but their jungler kept ganking, and since it was tryndamere he had no problem going all in. Also I had a rivalry with the enemy adc. You see, before that game, I was in a champ select with the same guy, and he insulted me for picking heimer as a support, then someone left the lobby. So I wanted to crush him when I ended up being his opponent. So from time to time I would bust his balls, saying "dod you like my heimer supp now", and that he still had low cs. He was doing the same, and it was ok, it was fun. It stopped being fun when our mid laner and udyr ganged up against me and started insulting me, they were even insulting me in all chat, saying I was the reason they were losing (while we won that game because of my baits and dragon/baron control). What makes me angry is that they reported me after the game, and I got the pop up telling me to stop being toxic. All this happened because udyr and the mid laner weren't familiar with the new jungle, hating me from the beginning because I didn't give a leash. I fear when the next season starts, and clueless junglers like udyr start popping up. I'm thinking I might just start maining jungle to avoid that.

28 Comments

ValyrianBlade11 votes

Just because you only need 1 person on the leash doesn't mean it isn't nice to have more. Also just because you only use one person doesn't mean anyone else does. For all you know, Udyr had a strategy that would have cleared more camps before basing than you normally do. Or perhaps he was planning to invade before backing and wanted higher health (most junglers base after the first half-jungle, if Udyr could clear 3 camps then have enough health to go to the enemy buff and steal his second buff, that would have been a huge advantage).

Also, even if they only need 1 person, the support is a MUCH better choice than the ADC. The ADC should be the one in lane as to not accidentally miss any CS. If the ADC needed to give a stronger leash because of your absence (or felt he needed to), you may have cost him some early pressure in lane.

I understand your play, setting up Heimer turrets in lane before minions arrive is important. You need to look at other perspectives though - it doesn't mean you need to supply a leash but it does mean you shouldn't say your teammates are wrong for asking for one.

Further - the abuse warning comes up after multiple occurrences, not just 1 report. If you got a warning, you've been demonstrating toxic behavior outside of that game too. Not to mention your opponent may have found your comments toxic even if you thought they were only in good fun.

Finally, you should never think that the game was won "because of my...". It's always a team effort. You may have made some good plays here or there, and you likely also made some mistakes here and there, and your teammates likely did the same, and your enemies likely did the same but had more mistakes. For one specific point, just because you succeed at keeping baron/dragon warded doesn't mean you were responsible for your team's dragon/baron control. Keep them warded all you like, if the other team kills your jungler and solo laners they'll take either objective without much resistance from you and the adc.

Killenea5 votes

Thanks for your reply. First of all, Udyr had no plan at all, if he had one he would have explained it instead of telling me that he wouldn't gank my lane if I didn't leash. Players who respond like this, are not strategic. In any other circumstance when I'm not heimer supp, I always tell the adc to go to lane and I stay to leash, but in this case it was not that bad, since the adc has higher dps, just one q and auto attack was enough. Also the abuse warning comes up when more than one person reports you in a single game, in this case udyr and the mid laner. And finally I know that thinking that the game was won because of me is not the truth, but by that I meant that I had a big role in teamfights, and because of my turrets, we were doing dragon and baron at the same time, so calling me useless and a feeder is not right, especially when I went 9/12/13, which is good considering that every lane was losing, and our jungler never ganked bot on purpose. The enemy send 2 extra people bot to take out the turret, since their adc was so zoned out that he couldn't even cs.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

Hindsight is always 20/20. Are you going to continue assuming they don't have their own plan or different jungle path than you from now on like a jerk, or are you going to take into consideration the alternatives and just help when they ask?

Malix Farwin2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=s2qrhMau,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-11T13:44:57.877+0000) Hindsight is always 20/20. Are you going to continue assuming they don't have their own plan or different jungle path than you from now on like a jerk, or are you going to take into consideration the alternatives and just help when they ask?

Even if they have their "own plan" of they do not communicate it , how is everyone suppose to know it. Last i checked, this was a team game.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes
  1. I don't believe for a second that they scolded him, but hadn't assist pinged or ask for help in chat.

  2. You don't need to quote the entire comment in a direct reply to that comment. That is pointless.

Malix Farwin2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=s2qrhMau,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-11T14:02:19.982+0000)

  1. I don't believe for a second that they scolded him, but hadn't assist pinged or ask for help in chat.

  2. You don't need to quote the entire comment in a direct reply to that comment. That is pointless.

1.) Have you played the game known as League of Legends? Ive seen people scold for less, especially if it is a premade

2.) The point is that it illustrates which exact point i am replying to. If you think that is pointless then that really says more about you then anything else.

3.) Sad thing about this however is that you have no counter argument so you yourself respond with "pointless things". Quite funny if you think about it actually.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

I don't believe him because he didn't state that they didn't ask, and the majority of the time people do indeed ask, and being upset afterwards is an indication that they requested his help. This is an educated guess based on personal experience. Just because I choose to believe the most likely scenario is probably true does not mean that I deny the alternative is possible.

And I'm not sure you understood when I said you don't need to both quote and reply. Your reply is in a box inside my own comment. (assuming you replied to the right person) This box means you are referring to the comment it is inside. Also quoting it serves no purpose; nobody will be confused to what comment you're replying to if you didn't quote it. I'm really surprised that you both don't understand this, and also felt it necessary to start insulting me due to your ignorance.

Eleshakai3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=s2qrhMau,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-11T14:02:19.982+0000)

  1. I don't believe for a second that they scolded him, but hadn't assist pinged or ask for help in chat.

  2. You don't need to quote the entire comment in a direct reply to that comment. That is pointless.

Not going to say anything specific on the subject but... not everyone uses reddit-view, so quoting is still helpful for those us who prefer forum-style.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted} Not going to say anything specific on the subject but... not everyone uses reddit-view, so quoting is still helpful for those us who prefer forum-style.

Speaking of which, I dunno about you, but I love the new quote style.

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted} Speaking of which, I dunno about you, but I love the new quote style.

Maybe it's just the fact that I'm really sick right now... but I don't see what the difference is lol

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted} Maybe it's just the fact that I'm really sick right now... but I don't see what the difference is lol

Instead of just being a slightly-different blue box, quotes (on the computers I view the boards on, anyway) are now marked by surrounding lines the same shade as the Post button.

They also include the quoted poster's name (which is a link to their post) and the time of their post, which is something I've been sad about losing since they shut down the forums. It's a pretty solid improvement that I first noticed yesterday.

Eleshakai2 votes

{quoted} Instead of just being a slightly-different blue box, quotes (on the computers I view the boards on, anyway) are now marked by surrounding lines the same shade as the Post button.

They also include the quoted poster's name (which is a link to their post) and the time of their post, which is something I've been sad about losing since they shut down the forums. It's a pretty solid improvement that I first noticed yesterday.

so they do... and ya, I guess they didn't do that before... huh, just hadn't noticed lol

Ya that's a big improvement.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

You shouldn´t try to defend that Udyr here - someone that doesn´t gank a lane although it would probably be a good call just beacuase someone didnßt give a leash is anything but a teamplayer. There´s good reason to not give a leash in the jungle, especially for a jungler that doesn´t have major issues clearing the jungle at any time.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

Nobody is defending an Udyr. We are defending the fact that a prick refuses to help his teammates, then goes on the forum to declare that he was right in ignoring them. Neither the Udyr being a poor sport or this guy refusing to help are in the right.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

he had proper reasoning for not leashing, so there´s nothing wrong abour refusing to leash. I personally die a little inside everytime I jungle and people come to leash, despite me telling them that i can clear just fine and they shouldn´t sacrifice any early lanepressure just to make my clear 1,3sec faster.

Malix Farwin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=s2qrhMau,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2014-12-11T14:41:35.302+0000) Nobody is defending an Udyr. We are defending the fact that a prick refuses to help his teammates, then goes on the forum to declare that he was right in ignoring them. Neither the Udyr being a poor sport or this guy refusing to help are in the right.

If he said "i am not leashing because "i dont feel like it" then you would be 100% right and there would be no argument however, he said he was setting up his lane. I help leash depending on my role but w/e i jungle i personally perfer not to have a leash.

ValyrianBlade3 votes

Well yes, their actions were definitely uncalled for - that kind of toxicity is never appropriate. Yet many players in league will rage over anything, I'm just trying to explain the other side of what you experienced in hope that it will allow you to make educated decisions in the future ;)

I also definitely didn't mean that you didn't contribute to the win - any win is a team effort and you clearly contributed. I was only pointing out that it sounded like you felt like your teammates were too busy being toxic to actually help win the game and it seems clear now that you understand they were a part of the win too and simply were frustrated with their comments towards you.

Such comments are hurtful (I've been the target of some in recent Games) but there isn't much you can do beyond muting them.

Killenea2 votes

Thanks for understanding

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted} Also the abuse warning comes up when more than one person reports you in a single game, in this case udyr and the mid laner.

I don't have much to say about the game itself, as it reads almost like a comedy of errors and a gigantic pile of poor communication combined with over-inflated egos. The shortest answer to my thoughts on it is: "Either no one is in the wrong, or everyone is."

However, I did want to address what I quoted above, as that is not how the in-client pop-up warning works. That pop-up is displayed when an account receives a spike in recent reported games, as compared to the average number of reported games for that player. It also doesn't display immediately, but rather some unknown amount of time/games later

As an example, let's say you (hypothetically) receive an average of 1 report every 10 games. If you were to play a series of 5 games, and were reported in each one, that pop-up would display some time later.

So, while they may have reported you, it's highly unlikely that their reports were what triggered that message.

Malix Farwin2 votes

{quoted} Just because you only need 1 person on the leash doesn't mean it isn't nice to have more. Also just because you only use one person doesn't mean anyone else does. For all you know, Udyr had a strategy that would have cleared more camps before basing than you normally do. Or perhaps he was planning to invade before backing and wanted higher health (most junglers base after the first half-jungle, if Udyr could clear 3 camps then have enough health to go to the enemy buff and steal his second buff, that would have been a huge advantage).

Also, even if they only need 1 person, the support is a MUCH better choice than the ADC. The ADC should be the one in lane as to not accidentally miss any CS. If the ADC needed to give a stronger leash because of your absence (or felt he needed to), you may have cost him some early pressure in lane.

I understand your play, setting up Heimer turrets in lane before minions arrive is important. You need to look at other perspectives though - it doesn't mean you need to supply a leash but it does mean you shouldn't say your teammates are wrong for asking for one.

Further - the abuse warning comes up after multiple occurrences, not just 1 report. If you got a warning, you've been demonstrating toxic behavior outside of that game too. Not to mention your opponent may have found your comments toxic even if you thought they were only in good fun.

Finally, you should never think that the game was won "because of my...". It's always a team effort. You may have made some good plays here or there, and you likely also made some mistakes here and there, and your teammates likely did the same, and your enemies likely did the same but had more mistakes. For one specific point, just because you succeed at keeping baron/dragon warded doesn't mean you were responsible for your team's dragon/baron control. Keep them warded all you like, if the other team kills your jungler and solo laners they'll take either objective without much resistance from you and the adc.

You dont need 2 people to leash, if you are putting someone behind in lane be leashing then it is not worth it, its the reason the mid laner did not leash and had the nerve to to trash talk another person not leashing. I personally don't even need a leash when i jungle but that is beside the point. I find it funny when a farming jungler says they will not gank that lane because they didn't get a leash like they were planning to gank in the first place. If you explained to him that you had to setup your lane early otherwise it would put you behind and he still complained then you should have muted both the jungler and the mid laner, they have nothing to offer of value at that point. If they refuse to go to lanes that new counter ganks then they cannot get mad if they lose the lane or game as a result.

Raja Chachki4 votes

Sorry that happened, but yeah there are toxic people and dunderheads playing this game, you just gotta grow a thicker skin, mute the people(trust me, it REALLY helps), and move on and just finish the game. And IMO, I do have both ADC and support leash me on first camp, they don't even miss a CS, so I think it's nice. The stupid thing is all these "junglers" have NO IDEA WHAT they are doing. I swear to god so far 6/10 have died about twice before even banking cuz they died to jungle.....ugh and they expect a HARD leash at A BUFF, like they want 10 autos.....

Earl Eulrich3 votes

good lord, someone requiring a leash on Udyr really is sad... and yea, bot is way better of just taking gromp or krugs for themselves to start with the xp bonus than leashing for the jungler currently anyway.

Kbalz2 votes

you can also give a really good leash and still make it back to lane

MagnusMentula2 votes

[deleted]

Killenea1 votes

Oh boy, you sound like s sweetheart. Tell me, how many times have you been banned?

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