Mordekaiser (Read) Why riot isn't responding.
**They don't want to bring attention to it. **
**They don't want to bring attention to it. **
We know. And they know. After world's. We should talk it out
And during the Harrowing, no less...
That's actually a good reason to keep him powerful. Lore and what not.
Eh. not really. It's because within 10 seconds of any Red Response, discussion would be impossible with all the hate and rage flooding the thread. That's just how these Boards are.
Well, what do you expect? From the moment Morde's rework was announced, Rioters didn't care. CertainlyT's post on PBE forum in nutshell would be: majority of testers: "This rework is crap". CertainlyT: "you know nothing, only I am right". The players just started to rage on CertainlyT because of how he was completely unwilling to change anything on PBE (in contradiction with Repertoir, who handled Garen rework perfectly when it comes to communicating with fan base imo). Then, the silence begun, which wasn't broken until about week after patch 5.16 hit the live servers, when finally CertainlyT decided to break the silence and posted under one of Malicious Metal's post. When you look at the responses CT posted there, not all were downvoted, people started downvoting him when he again started talking that only he is right and that the design choices he made were good. And then. again... silence... Sorry man, imo, Morde fans have rights to be pissed off about whole situation. Mord's rework was just handled super poorly, especially when you compare it to how other 3 juggernaut reworks were handled at the same time.
To be fair, yeah he sucks at communicating, you can't lump it all on him. The majority of ideas for changes to the rework could be summed up as "Revert it!" Which was pretty much off the table. Riot told him to try and rework the champ into a duo lane champ, he did his best, people complained because what Riot wanted wasn't what they wanted. And to be honest, I can't think of anything that wouldn't result in exactly what Riot doesn't want, Morde going back to being a purely solo lane champ.
The majority of ideas for changes to the rework could be summed up as "Revert it!" Which was pretty much off the table.
Meanwhile, Riven rework was taken out of PBE 2 days after being added for testing (if I'm not mistaken, maybe it was 3 days. Anyways, less than a week). How much are you gonna bet we won't see it ever again? Reverting this rework wasn't off the table. Riot just didn't care from beginning. But, if such a drastic rework was applied to, let's say, Riven or Lee Sin, and it would be met with such a criticism as Mord's rework, it would be probably pulled back in less than 2 days.
Again, to be fair, the changes were supposed to be "experimental" and looking at it, would actually have been a massive buff to good Riven players.
The only known time when Riot has bowed to community pressure was the suggested Lee Sin rework. And lets face it, when a massive, I mean MASSIVE amount of the community goes off over this (These boards don't even make up .001% of the community, the outrage was in the double digits from reports.) Even then, Riot has reported regretting the decision to back off on the rework and from the looks of it, have tried implementing a few aspects of it into his current kit here and there.
Yes... and they were labeled "experimental" because of the popularity of Riven. No other reason.
tin-foil hat intensifies
Tin foil logic right there. They were labeled experimental due to them being an experiment. Does Riven need some changes, sure, but that has nothing to do with the rework as it didn't address her shield, which is honestly the only aspect of her kit that is slightly bullshit. Some tweaking to that would make her less frustrating for non-early game champs to lane against while still allowing Riven to stomp when in the hands of a good player.
This was Riot Time Wizard when talking about a possible Riven nerf/slight rework: here
Yes, we are looking into nerfs for Riven, and fairly soon! We don't wanna 'gut' her, though. Riven players love their brokesword.
It shows that champions are treated differently depending on their popularity.
Indeed, posted three days ago. Possibly the same reason they were considering her rework (though again, the suggested rework didn't address the single bs aspect of her kit.) Not to mention, Riven is slightly op and bs, she's not broken. Morde was/is broken.
Riven can be beaten in lane if you know what you're doing. Morde can only be beaten if you out range him and can damage him faster than he can sustain through your damage.
[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=p96liEkm,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-10-18T20:54:32.874+0000)
Well, what do you expect? From the moment Morde's rework was announced, Rioters didn't care. CertainlyT's post on PBE forum in nutshell would be: majority of testers: "This rework is crap". CertainlyT: "you know nothing, only I am right". The players just started to rage on CertainlyT because of how he was completely unwilling to change anything on PBE (in contradiction with Repertoir, who handled Garen rework perfectly when it comes to communicating with fan base imo). Then, the silence begun, which wasn't broken until about week after patch 5.16 hit the live servers, when finally CertainlyT decided to break the silence and posted under one of Malicious Metal's post. When you look at the responses CT posted there, not all were downvoted, people started downvoting him when he again started talking that only he is right and that the design choices he made were good. And then. again... silence... Sorry man, imo, Morde fans have rights to be pissed off about whole situation. Mord's rework was just handled super poorly, especially when you compare it to how other 3 juggernaut reworks were handled at the same time.
I was there and that's a very accurate account of what happened
Well, what do YOU expect? A relatively small group of players is insisting that they have the right to dictate the game's development, and are responding to the realization that they don't with rage. Of course Riot doesn't care. They can't afford to care about something like that. In response to reasonable threads about Morde, they've already said what they have to say, and that hasn't stopped the boards from being spammed with more threads. There's nothing else for them to do here.
Maybe they gave the rework to CertainlyT BECAUSE they knew some specific players weren't going to like it, and they trusted him of all people to keep a stiff upper lip about it and be professional. I think I found the thread you were talking about. I haven't heard much from him before, but I found him to be reasonable. In fact, he's smarter than most of the people who write on these boards, but that doesn't really surprise me. It's really the reason he's so "bad" at communicating. He's not. It's just hard to communicate with people who aren't thinking on your level. Lots of people have called him arrogant because they don't understand him. If that seems like a cop-out, well, it's easy to call something a cop-out when you've neglected your own burden of proof in challenging it. People who don't understand why they're wrong are still wrong.
It's worth noting that every post from him in that thread has a net positive vote tally, in spite of the number of people here who apparently hate him and disagree with everything he says. Maybe that's because he never actually said "you know nothing, only I am right". Instead, he explained why he made the choices he did, and nobody had anything to say on the matter that demonstrably proved him wrong. Some people just WISH he were wrong, and are frustrated that yelling louder didn't make him listen. The most condescending thing he said was that players were not learning to use Morde's new kit effectively, as he assumed they would. And as much as it may seem he was blaming players for the poor results, he was right. NOW, people are saying Morde is OP. Morde mains may not have wanted that, but what they did want had already been judged unhealthy for the game, and it was off the table.
"I had a lot of feedback from people saying Mordekaiser was a nagging problem on the game as a whole to balance against feedback from the fewer but more passionate people saying they wanted their champion unchanged. Based upon the totality of the circumstances, I made the decision I felt was better for the overall health of the game. I don't regret it, though obviously it is difficult as a designer to change something that many of your players enjoy."
He's just doing his job, and he may not be perfect, but he certainly has a better grasp of what it entails than all of his haters. Raging about his champions, or about Morde in particular, is not going to accomplish anything. Malicious Metal is one of few actually being reasonable, but again, old Morde is gone for a reason. As far as your mischaracterization of CertainlyT's response and attitude, I have to call BS. He has justified himself, and not merely been dismissive.
Basically, what your whole post is saying is :"minorities have no rights to say anything because they are only very small part of whole community."
Morde mains may not have wanted that, but what they did want had already been judged unhealthy for the game, and it was off the table
The more I'm thinking about the whole old Morde being unhealthy, the more I wonder: what was so toxic about old Morde? Yeah, he pushed like a monster and his shield was annoying and E poke was strong. But you know? I know at least one champion that does what old Mord was doing, but even better: Azir. He pushes like monster. Pokes like a monster, has high range so it's hard to poke him without huge retaliation. But you know what makes him better than old Mord? He has very effective escape ability. Well, he isn't unhealthy for a game. You might disagree with me when it comes to Azir, but I think, yeah, he does what old Mord did, but better. Mord's rework made him from a bit unhealthy unpopular champion into completely broken mess with one of the biggest ban ratios. And tbh, a lot of people were telling that that is gonna happen. That he will be either useless or broken, depending on numbers. Guess what, he is broken.
The more I'm thinking about the whole old Morde being unhealthy, the more I wonder: what was so toxic about old Morde?
syndrome. Namely, "Do I out range them? Is their flash down?" If the answer to both of those is yes, you win the trade and likely lane. If not then you've a 99% chance of getting your butt handed to you.
With Morde, if you didn't out range him and didn't have the early damage to exploit his lack of sustain then you didn't play League for 20 minutes.
[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=p96liEkm,comment-id=0001000000020000,timestamp=2015-10-19T06:23:13.258+0000)
Basically, what your whole post is saying is :"minorities have no rights to say anything because they are only very small part of whole community."
League of Legends is not a democracy. It is owned by Riot. They alone have the right to decide what they think is best for their game. They may base their decisions on many factors, including player feedback. But no, players do not have the right to make those decisions, let alone a small number of players making decisions that affect everyone else. Compared to the assertion that a few players should have their wants (not needs) represented at the expense of all other players (and the state of the game itself), I think I'm being pretty reasonable. Riot has shown a preference to protect ALL their players where possible, especially including vulnerable minorities, and has never stopped anyone from saying anything about the game, which is very different from saying "minorities have no rights". Having a legitimate grievance, and showing that you've actually been harmed in some way, is very different from having an opinion and expecting to be allowed to force it on everyone else (by changing the game we all play).
As for the specifics of Mordekaiser's state before and after his rework, I'm not qualified to say. It just bugs me that some people are dumping on a guy, calling him irresponsible and arrogant, when evidence shows he is anything but. He has done his job, and beyond that, has made every reasonable effort to explain it to people to whom he personally does not owe any explanation at all. But this gesture of goodwill has gotten him only abuse. CertainlyT and other Rioters have already said what they have to say on the matter. It's one thing to disagree with what they've said. It's another entirely to pretend they haven't said it, and claim they've only been condescending and insulted players. They have given their answer. You may not LIKE it, but they have. In fact, they've gone beyond that and tried to have conversations with those who have actually addressed what they said. It just got them yelled at by others. At this point, they've done all they can to explain themselves. But some people don't want an explanation. They want Riot to do what they say. That's not going to happen. So, in reference to the topic of this thread, of course they're not going to respond anymore. There's no reason to do so.
To be clear, I don't believe the matter of Mordekaiser is settled in anyone's mind. But until they have more to say, they most likely won't be saying anything, least of all "we don't have anything to say yet".
Again, I am going to cite RiotRepertoir. He was also reworking a champion that wasn't very popular: Garen. Yet, he maintained the contact with Garen's player base, which wasn't really huge before 5.16 (unfortunately I can't find any charts for his pick rate pre patch 5.16). Garen's player base wasn't majority, yet they had influence on how Garen's rework was handled. The same cannot be said about Mordekaiser.
Show me where Morde players made suggestions that weren't in direct contradiction to the goals of the rework (or even more counterproductive: "revert it!"), and I'll show you where there was potential for the same thing to happen with Morde. The problem is, I don't think such an example even exists, except where solokaiser got part of his W back. Yeah, see, they listened. They just didn't blindly do everything they were told.
"League of Legends is not a democracy. It is owned by Riot. They alone have the right [..]"
This is where i stopped reading your post
Good. Try not replying either, next time. I don't need to hear from people who think players are allowed to dictate game design to developers. It might be prudent for them to listen and take player feedback into consideration, but Riot still gets to make the decisions.
Among the hate, there are a lot of people who actually make a very educated feedback on the champion they love, and that feedback is usually the most upvoted one. It wouldn't be hard to keep conversation with them, and ignore all other posts (with the supposed "tough skin" the rioters have), the problem is however that feedback is provided by people who played 1k games with the champion and know all about them, while the rioter, as good as they might be in their trade, have often few knowledge of the champion in question aside from numbers and the project of what they want to make with it.
- Riot has already been responding to Mord threads, seriously look it up.
- They aren't going to waste their time responding to every thread about Mord, because that would accomplish absolutely nothing, people wouldn't even stop complaining.
- There's no reason to continue to keep posting threads like this, it's just inflammatory nonsense. Riot has already heard the general consensus of people not liking this change, but that doesn't mean things are going to just get fixed over night. Give it some time.
I'll give them all the time they want once they announce a timetable for a new Rework. Until then I'll still be making threads
But what exactly is that going to do?
Riot has already responded in a fair number of the
threads and have said a lot of what they can or needed to say so there's not much reason to keep repeating their answers if that question has already been discussed. There's also the issue that there's no unified agreement by Mordekaiser veterans about what to do with him beyond: remove the xp passive (which a Riot recently stated in their Q&A thread was being considered) and that the dragon feels gimmicky. These are certainly important pieces of information for feedback but often player's feelings on the matter are just stated and not backed up with other important experiential data (like how and ability feels vs. how effective it is; personally I don't think Mordekaiser's new Q visually looks fitting to the amount of power it has) or potential solutions.
While plenty of the multitude of Mordekaiser posts have valid points, I've also seen the community's attention to him massively inflated beyond its actual amount by things like daily or bi-daily posts from the same players as well as responses from the same people. I've actually started recognizing names on these boards just from the sheer number of times I see them, which is a bad sign when I am quite bad at remembering names and I don't even pay attention to them when I go into a post.
personally I don't think Mordekaiser's new Q visually looks fitting to the amount of power it has
Q1=
visual style proc
Q2=
visual style proc
Q3=
ult visual style proc lol
They should just make a sticky post in gameplay and balance, containing their thoughs and liks to answers already provided. That would greatly increase visibility on their contact with the community, and would provide a space for people who want to follow up on a resonse a Rioter provided before vanishing (I remember a response from the lore team which greatly disappointed the Morde fan, but no other reply was provided after that).
This should actually be made with other hot topics, too, like the old boards used to do when there were champion reworks.
Wasn't it said that they were trying to figure out what to do. It was a bit ago but still.
it's either remain silent, or get downvoted into oblivion and yelled at in comment sections for not giving into the crowd's demands when they try t explain stuff.
Probably not sure what to do with him atm until they have something ready to hit him with a
level rework.
What everyone wants is pretty much off the table. Morde is a toxic champ in solo lane, so until they can drop the big rework, they put him duo lane because then there are more factors to consider than simply, "Am I in Mordes range?"
That moment when 90 percent of the boards qqs about morde whole darius hardly got changed riven still 1v5s fiora does extreme true damanage with a heal and everyone complaining because the let a morde hit them after charging his q with his 175 range to bad there's not a single adc that can kite morde
The thing it's that we are talking about different kind of whining. Ppl whining about Morde are ppl who play him and find it to be the greatest joke of all times. We don't care that he is OP, we recognise that he is not even one bit less toxic then before (if he ever was) but we got deprived of what made Mordekaiser himself and are bound to one single lane.
I feel like riot is waiting for the marksman changes. Then maybe a mage/tank won't be the best adc
Wait whats wrong with Morde. I don't even know ;/