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Riot Games starts giving banned League of Legends players a second chance

Tehlawlfirm··1 votes·1,164 views

Riot Games starts giving banned League of Legends players a second chance

Riot Games’ League of Legends has been trying to shake its reputation for a toxic player base for some time now, and part of its new strategy has been to focus on reform rather than punishment. In its latest move, the Santa Monica-based developer has decided to rescind its ban for Nicolaj “Incarnati0n” Jensen, a professional LoL player who had been banned for “a consistent pattern of in-game verbal abuse, offensive behavior and negative attitude.”

After a thorough review process, Riot wrote that Jensen appeared to be reformed. “Since his last review, Jensen has continued to demonstrate behavior in game that is well above the normal standards of good behavior across all of his accounts since at least January 2014,” Riot wrote. “Additionally, according to our monitoring tools, he has not been implicated in any DDOS or Drophacking-related exploits since Q2 2013. There have been no serious offenses or violations of the letter or spirit of the Summoner Code since his account-sharing related offense in Q1 2014.”

Riot notes that Jensen is “the first formerly permabanned player ever to be admitted back into professional play” and therefore was subjected to a high standard of behavior, and the developer has been satisfied with the changes it has seen in him. “All the data supports the conclusion that Jensen has legitimately reformed and has earned a second chance,” Riot wrote.

Great.. So where is everyone else's chance?

The idea that punishing toxic players is the result of less toxic players is false.. Lyte never looked at the reason why people are toxic to begin with and in fact punishing people doesn't result in them being less toxic.. it either makes them quit or make alt accounts to be toxic again.

People are toxic because They are stuck in games for long periods of time with people who want to troll People are toxic because team mates refuse to communicate People are toxic because your team picks 3 ADCs and you are the only one trying to take it serious People are toxic because you get team mates who want to goof around in rank and screw up your promos People are toxic because they don't get the role they want People are toxic because while your 10-0 bot is 0-10 People are toxic because people afk in their games

It all revolves around one thing.. The ability not to ff sooner or have the option to get ride of trolls sooner pregame or during game. You are stuck in a game for 20 minutes + while your teemo and nidalee are running up and down lanes throwing wards and feeding and there is nothing you can do about it. That is what Riot should be focusing on.. Those are options Riot needs to add to it's game, not suspending and punishing people who get fed up with games like this over and over.

Also the fact that your game/client can crash or something happens and you can get back in game and help your team win and still get punished for it makes 0 sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UfO7qOHx5M

_Says it perfectly _

12 Comments

Tehlawlfirm1 votes

Bump

nerak231 votes

The idea that punishing toxic players is the result of less toxic players is false.. Lyte never looked at the reason why people are toxic to begin with and in fact punishing people doesn't result in them being less toxic.. it either makes them quit or make alt accounts to be toxic again.

Can you explain what you mean by : "The idea that punishing toxic players is the result of less toxic players is false" ?

Tehlawlfirm1 votes

Because people don't magically ignore human nature to get mad at people trolling their game simply because of a suspension. They either quit the game or make Alt accounts and are still toxic.. or simply wait till their account is simply not suspended and then become toxic again or troll on their Alt accounts. Suspending players does not address the issue of why people get toxic in the first place..

OhBoyItsaMegaman1 votes

Where do you work?

I want you to go in to work tomorrow and start abusing your coworkers and/or customers. If someone takes too long, tell them to hurry the fuck up. If someone makes an error, tell them they're a shitty employee and you hope they get fired. If someone is in your way, threaten to knock them over.

Then, when you're fired and being escorted out the door, explain the real reason behind your behavior: your employer needs to give you the option to just leave work (with pay) if idiots are aggravating you. They need to change this policy in order to get rid of the root cause of these incidents and prevent them from happening.

Then post a reply here tomorrow and let me know what they thought of your idea.

Tehlawlfirm1 votes

This isn't work this is a game... It's like comparing apples and oranges...

However if you want to use a comparison, let's do that... I want you to go into work tomorrow and say "Hey i'm gonna screw everything up for everyone and try to get them fired. Who do you think is going to get fired? The guy who is screwing everything up and trying to get people in trouble or the people who say "Hey, fuck you i'm not gonna let you screw things up and get me fired" ? Clearly the manager is going to get ride of the employee who is purposely screwing things up and not the people calling him an asshole for it.

Now Riot's logic would be, Fire the guy calling the other guy an asshole and let the guy screwing things up continue working with the rest of the employees and pissing them off.

There.. my analogy trumps yours.. care to try again?

OhBoyItsaMegaman1 votes

It isn't work, but it is like a workplace in the sense that you are expected to follow basic rules of conduct that ARE NOT required everywhere. If you are hanging out with your friends and you tell one of them to "stop being a pussy bitch", nobody's going to leap out of the bushes and arrest you. If someone cuts you off and you honk back at him and give him the finger, you're not going to lose your license.

At work, you are not allowed to retaliate. If someone is doing something they're not supposed to, and you respond with the same behavior back at them, you are going to be subject to the same punishment. "He started it" doesn't mean a thing. In the real world, if I went into work and started intentionally screwing things up for people, no one would call me an asshole. They would report me to the people who have the authority to deal with me appropriately. Because we're all adults.

Tehlawlfirm1 votes

Rules only apply when everyone follows the rules. You aren't suppose to hit people or it's assault but if someone hits you first are you not going to defend yourself? Yes at work you are allowed to speak up and say something someone is purposely doing things wrong even doing things wrong not knowingly.. If someone goes out his way to screw you over and try and get you fired you have every right in stick up for yourself.. If the manager sides with the guy purposely screwing things up like riot does with trolls than they are both wrong. Just because their are rules don't always make them right or correct.

I have walked out on a job that was knowing screwing it's employees over... Ya I might lose my job but there are plenty of other jobs out there that won't take the side of the asshole screwing the other employees over and fire me because I called him an asshole.. just like there are plenty of other games out there other than League of Legends.

There are people who have the sack to stand up for what they believe and defend them self and there are people who are cowards who suck up and deal with it and you strike me as that type of person. There was a kid who constantly got bullied over and over.. His friend took all the right steps to contact the principle and higher ups to try and get it stopped.. They said they would look into it and never did. The bullying continued and got worse to the point they were telling the kid to kill himself.. His friend knowing he is the type to do it got fed up and went in and went off on the principle for doing nothing weeks later.. That kid who stood up for his friend got suspended for using bad language. The parents stepped in and the students walked in protest of the kid getting suspended and they those kids got suspended too.. So who was in the wrong? The kid standing up for his friend who got pissed off after he took the right steps, followed the rules and nothing was being done? Or the principle who ignored the warnings and went about his day? What part of your logic approves that kid getting suspended for getting mad that the one person who was suppose to be responsible for that student did nothing? Clearly all those kids who had common sense knew that it was wrong and walked out of school to protest... all those parents stood with them to protest.. Why are you the one asshole who would defend what the principle did justified?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSiJYzyaogY

Another story where this kids sister was getting constantly sexually harassed by a football player. Again the principle was doing nothing, so the kid and the dad went to the school to confront the football player.. The football player swung at the kid and they put the football player down on the ground. Who got in trouble? The kid and dad who confronted him.. not the principle.. not the football player but the fucking kid and dad.. the kid and sister was suspended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06N-5cFJcyo

Your backwards thinking is the same kinda backwards thinking that happened in these cases and that Riot uses every single day. Welp one guy is screwing 4 other people over for 20+ minutes he should be the one punished right? However if you say anything Riot will take the side of the troll who pretends to be offended and reports you and now you are the one being punished and the troll gets to move on to more games where he pisses more people off. Verbal abuse isn't the issue.. you have a mute option use it if it bothers your.. The issue is trolls.. that should be the people that get punished and that should be the people Riot are focusing on.. But instead they come out with the whole new automated system to read certain type of phrases and words that it will detect to make sure you are being polite and nice... But where is the automated system for the trolls going 0-20 with no items?

Use common sense. you are wrong.

Also trolling and calling someone a troll is not the same thing.. 1 is wasting 4 other peoples time and screwing 4 other people over and one is calling that troll out on his bs.

I can't believe I have to explain common sense to you.. unbelievable...

OhBoyItsaMegaman1 votes

Rules only apply when everyone follows the rules.

wwwwwwhhhhhhhhaaaAAAAATTTTTTT?!

You aren't suppose to hit people or it's assault but if someone hits you first are you not going to defend yourself?

At work. NO. NO.

NO, I AM NOT. If, for whatever reason, someone hit me at work, I would leave the area immediately, as is the stated policy at my workplace and virtually every workplace in the US. If you choose to defend yourself, you are also committing workplace violence and subject to whatever consequences follow that.

Do you not know this? Is this shocking to you? If so then I can see why you would disagree with Riot's policies. But in reality, there is no clause that says the rules do not apply to you as long as you weren't the first to break them.

If the manager sides with the guy purposely screwing things up like riot does with trolls than they are both wrong. Just because their are rules don't always make them right or correct.

Yes I agree they would both be wrong if that happened, but that doesn't mean that breaking the rules yourself becomes justified.

I find the bullying video you linked hilariously appropriate. You have a whistleblower who has incomplete information, a mistaken assumption about the rules, and a strong bias. The staff told him that they were following school policy and taking the actions that they were supposed to. He disagreed with that and decided that permitted him to break rules regarding student conduct. He was wrong and he was punished for it.

Your interpretation that "the principal did nothing for weeks" is completely made up. The student went to speak to the principal three times in the same day - May 22. His actions on that day were what got him suspended. There was a disciplinary hearing scheduled for the bullies, and they were later suspended according to the students who were protesting. (The reporter phrased it awkwardly, but the BULLIES were the ones who were suspended, not the kids who protested.) That's what happens. There are hearings and meetings and notes on permanent records. Things happen according to policy, once facts are gathered and confirmed. What did the kid's friend think was going to happen? Bullies just expelled within five minutes of him walking into the principal's office, just from his claim?

The situation you're in in League is perfectly analogous. Someone in your game broke the rules (allegedly... I'm not that sure that the people you're talking about are even breaking any rules; going 0/10 or refusing to communicate is not bannable behavior.) You could have reported them, but in your own incomplete personal view of the world, Riot was going to ignore your report and let them go unpunished. What YOU want is for that player to receive severe and instantaneous punishment, and that's not what policy dictates. So you figured that "Rules only apply when everyone follows the rules," and look what happened to you as a result.

Tehlawlfirm1 votes

{quoted}

wwwwwwhhhhhhhhaaaAAAAATTTTTTT?!

At work. NO. NO.

NO, I AM NOT. If, for whatever reason, someone hit me at work, I would leave the area immediately, as is the stated policy at my workplace and virtually every workplace in the US. If you choose to defend yourself, you are also committing workplace violence and subject to whatever consequences follow that.

Do you not know this? Is this shocking to you? If so then I can see why you would disagree with Riot's policies. But in reality, there is no clause that says the rules do not apply to you as long as you weren't the first to break them.

Yes I agree they would both be wrong if that happened, but that doesn't mean that breaking the rules yourself becomes justified.

I find the bullying video you linked hilariously appropriate. You have a whistleblower who has incomplete information, a mistaken assumption about the rules, and a strong bias. The staff told him that they were following school policy and taking the actions that they were supposed to. He disagreed with that and decided that permitted him to break rules regarding student conduct. He was wrong and he was punished for it.

Your interpretation that "the principal did nothing for weeks" is completely made up. The student went to speak to the principal three times in the same day - May 22. His actions on that day were what got him suspended. There was a disciplinary hearing scheduled for the bullies, and they were later suspended according to the students who were protesting. (The reporter phrased it awkwardly, but the BULLIES were the ones who were suspended, not the kids who protested.) That's what happens. There are hearings and meetings and notes on permanent records. Things happen according to policy, once facts are gathered and confirmed. What did the kid's friend think was going to happen? Bullies just expelled within five minutes of him walking into the principal's office, just from his claim?

The situation you're in in League is perfectly analogous. Someone in your game broke the rules (allegedly... I'm not that sure that the people you're talking about are even breaking any rules; going 0/10 or refusing to communicate is not bannable behavior.) You could have reported them, but in your own incomplete personal view of the world, Riot was going to ignore your report and let them go unpunished. What YOU want is for that player to receive severe and instantaneous punishment, and that's not what policy dictates. So you figured that "Rules only apply when everyone follows the rules," and look what happened to you as a result.

All I got from that is you are a bigger idiot than I thought and a pussy to boot. I'm laughing so hard right now because I can just picture a co-worker coming up and hitting you and you saying "I'm going to tell on you" and the guy that hits you says "Not if I don't let you" while he continues to pound you into the ground while you are curdle up in a ball saying "i'm not going to hit you, it's not the "Adult" thing to do" LOL.... Assuming for the sake of argument despite your stupidity that you had a girlfriend.. I can just imagine what goes through her mind when you talk.. or any of your friends for that matter.

In the end though.. you are still wrong no matter how you slice it and I seriously don't have the time nor the flash cards to explain common sense.

So for that reason I'm out - Shark Tank.

nerak231 votes

Because people don't magically ignore human nature to get mad at people trolling their game simply because of a suspension. They either quit the game or make Alt accounts and are still toxic.. or simply wait till their account is simply not suspended and then become toxic again or troll on their Alt accounts. Suspending players does not address the issue of why people get toxic in the first place..

Yes I agree with that. Still the vast majority of people don't do things that gets them a punishment.

Let me go at this a different way then...What would you do if you owned Riot and had to deal with the problems everyone faces in the game ( toxic?) attitude and the like..K..you own the company and you want to please your player base, What way do you propose do deal with nasty players ?
I feel it acceptable to ask you this because you say you did an experiment about how Riot punishes..so please tell me what should be done...I'm really trying to say this in a way to get you to talk and explain what you feel and not to piss you off.

Tehlawlfirm1 votes

Imo it would very simple if I owned the company and made the decisions. I wouldn't rely on some guy who has a Dr. Degree in something simply because of that.. I would rely on common sense and logic.. Some of the brightest people in history were idiots because they lacked both.

  1. I would have never added the Tribunal in the first place... Why would I give a toxic community the power to decide rather someone is toxic or not? Or even worse.. why would I give trolls even more power to troll people twice?

  2. I would not have an automated system banning/suspending players based on certain phrases or certain amount of reports without any type of accountability to see if those reports are even justified just because it's easier to do.

  3. I would recognize that without players and their money I wouldn't have grown to a Billion dollar company and without players I my company would have folded a long time ago. Hence, I have the responsibility to give ever player a fair suspension and review.

  4. If I owned a Billion dollar + company, I would have phone support like other gaming companies do so when a player has a problem it can be dealt with correctly.. I wouldn't have this lazy system that sends cookie cutter emails to people leaving them guessing why their account is banned with a "Fuck you thanks for the money type of email reply".

  5. I would have punishments for trolling, hacking etc but I would not have punishments for Verbal Abuse. People have the option to mute people and also have a language filter.. if you "CHOOSE" to turn off that language filter and "CHOOSE" not to mute someone then that is on you. I gave you the option to use it, you "CHOSE" not to, I am not going to give you power to report someone when you intentionally "CHOSE" to not mute that person.

  6. I would add in the Disable Chat function.. Something players have wanted since 2012. An option to disable chat completely during a game so if someone is feeding or trolling and you want to call that player an asshole for doing it you can't because you had Disable chat that game. Riot wants to talk about how toxic players can be but when they ask for an option to disable chat they completely ignore it for years... Some people can control it some people can't.. for the people that can't give them the option. Sure you can mute people and not see what they say.. but when someone is feeding there is nothing keeping them from seeing you type "ASSHOLE".. Other than the mute button which they choose not to use. It has went as far as people going into the game folder itself "game.cfg" and making edits to the chat size to where it doesn't even appear on screen.. that's how bad people want this option.. so why hasn't Riot given it to them? It's not like if Riot gave you this option you "HAD" to use it but for people who want to use it should have that option.

7.I would change the forfeit timer. I wouldn't force a team to play 3 vs 5 for 20 minutes because 2 players didn't get the role they wanted and just afked... Players have been wanting that for a long time and it's still being ignored.

8.I would add in a mercy Feature.. That way if a team has afks you had the choice to give the enemy team a mercy vote to Forfeit sooner and save both teams time.. This would also promote people being nice because ultimately if you are a dick to the enemy team they aren't going to give you a mercy vote..

9.Punishment for dodging.. Stupid in my opinion. When people dodge it's either because they didn't get the role they wanted or they have a troll before the game even starts. Why should I get punished for dodging in ranked at champ select when I have two idiots in chat saying "MID/TOP" or feed.. then both lock in supports and say feed? Granted ya people shouldn't just be able to dodge because they don't get the role they want so I would add in Team Builder to rank. Right there would solve a huge amount of toxic problems.. or Maybe even add in a vote to kick during champion select so if someone is going to announce they are going to troll prior to the game people can vote to kick him and find a replacement without being punished for dodging.

10.Punishing people for afking.. This needs to be addressed.. There is some reasons that people afk in games that are beyond people's control. Rather it be an emergency , power went out, Client messed up, internet is screwing up etc.. I would not ban these people as if they did these things on purpose. There isn't even a "Type reason why you were Afk" option. I also would definately not punish people who are afk for 5 minutes who had to restart their computer to get back in game that ended up winning with their team.. Why would I punish a player who had no control over what happened who got back in the game and helped his team win? What I would do is add a system that if someone was afk after 5 minutes you would have an option to replace that player with someone in Que. This way the player coming into the game would be playing the same champion, with the same items and could take the place of the player who afked. As for people who afked because they were raging or something, those people would get a suspension but I wouldn't punish someone who had no choice in the matter as someone who did have a choice. If I did that it would be irresponsible on my part and lazy as an owner.

I'm sure there is a ton more stuff I would do and add that would make my game more user friendly and not so much where I put all the blame on players and ignore any responsibility my client or servers causes. I wouldn't mask the problem with toxicity by simply just adding in automated systems to address the problem with the mentality that "We'll 5,000 people got suspended by our automated system that didn't really deserve it but we got ride of 20,000 trolls in the process so it works". It's not only unfair to people who aren't toxic or who don't afk on purpose but it's irresponsible to the players who give my company money and invest time to make it grow.

This is pure common sense.. it seems people will want to argue with common sense just for the sake of arguing.. If I make the suggestions the community turns on me.. if Riot makes the Decisions all of a sudden it's a great idea and the community up votes it. This is why this game hasn't made these changes or gave people these options because everytime it is brought up you have these assholes who have all the time in the world to constantly argue on why it shouldn't be added simply because it wouldn't affect them.. The same way society thinks in real life. If it doesn't affect me who cares.. even though it is affecting millions of other people.

You said the vast majority of people don't get punished for this? Then why is Toxicity the number 1 thing that affects this game and Riot goes through so much trouble coming up with systems to ban/suspend these people? You don't have to be verbal to be toxic.. I see people troll and afk to get back at their team mates.. Yet verbal abuse seems to be the number 1 thing people report for. League of Legends has been voted the most toxic community and for good reason.. they don't address the issue , they mask it and suspend. Maybe if they fixed the problems people want fixed that make this game so toxic.. there would be less toxicity and less suspensions benefiting the company and the player base.

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