Why do some champions benefit very slightly from AP??

Tripgnosis·12/5/2014, 4:20:18 PM·8 votes·2,614 views

just played Urgot in ARAM and forgot to change my masteries and runes, so I had AP. Only benefit of this is a slightly better shield making AP urgot (obviously) non-viable. So from a design standpoint then, why does he benefit from AP at all? if played correctly, that 'bonus' should be 0 anyway. I very much like the idea of champions being designed in a way that allows for different VIABLE builds. And there are many champs who could be AP, AD, tank, or mixed builds. But There are still quite a lot of champions who, though they may have one ability that benefit from AP, its not enough to make an AP build viable. like Urgot for example, its not even enough to warrant an AD/AP hybrid or an AP/Tank. So again, why have him benefit at all from AP? Any thoughts? A response from riot would be awesome - just to satisfy my curiosity ;)

44 Comments

Pryotra12/5/2014, 5:20:43 PM19 votes

Actually, Trinity force was initially a tertiary reasoning, that only makes sense now because the old reason no longer exists.

Back in the day, Ability power meant "stat that makes abilities better". Over time, we have seen more and more forms of scaling happen, which is why you usually see only mages scaling with ability power, a stat now defined more as "Stat that makes magic stuff better", while other champions get different scalings.

Now this also fed into ancient times Baron. Back in S1, Baron used to give AP and other combat stats. This was supposed to be a universally good buff for your team, hence AP as a buffed stat. Because every champion had abilities, right?

Nowadays, the only real remaining reason is Trinity force, but honestly for some of the scalings it only makes some sense.

Drunk Rummate12/5/2014, 5:10:07 PM14 votes

to make triforce a viable pick for all champions was his mission

insert picture of phreak

AP Sejuani12/5/2014, 5:11:55 PM5 votes

It's for Trinity Force. Even champions that don't often build it (Sivir, Aatrox, Yasuo) have AP scalings so that they can make use of the AP Triforce gives. Rito just wants to increase diversity and new build possibilities.

Xonra12/5/2014, 5:30:26 PM3 votes

The only reason champions like Urgot have AP is because of outdated design methods that have yet to be fixed with a few select champions. Same reason why Yi used to have a ton of AP scaling for no reason. Granted it used to be a lot worse but there are still some odd cases like Urgot shield or Cait trap.

I get they can't all have AD scaling but why not have no scaling there, or scale with something different that you might actually build? Why does a Cait trap even need a scaling? Why does Urgot's shield need AP scaling of all things? Etc etc

Tripgnosis12/5/2014, 5:14:09 PM2 votes

How can we get a response on this from the actual champ designers you think? I would love to get the insights of the people who actually make these decisions. Will riot be more likely to notice this thread if i mention riot more often riot you think riot?

AGarner12/5/2014, 4:29:10 PM2 votes

It's just to give a second scaling. Gnar has a 1:1 ratio on his W just because he has two scalings, doesn't make him OP just another scaling. It's also to keep from making something, OP Gnars W no matter how low the AD scaling would be really strong with AD scaling, so it's AP.

TaoistMaster12/5/2014, 7:27:15 PM1 votes

Gangplank item 3089 item 3089 item 3089

He pressed W and was K.

Heartless Jack12/5/2014, 7:43:29 PM1 votes

In Urgot 's (one very specific) case, you can build item 3078 item 3027 item 3042 . Why RoA? You benefit from the mana pool and it is a niche build but a fun one.

Cerbearus12/5/2014, 8:28:56 PM1 votes

Makes use of the random AP you would get from Sheen items, Baron buff, etc.

Eleshakai12/5/2014, 8:37:02 PM1 votes

Usually it's given to champs who itemize things like TF that have small amounts of AP on them ot provide one more lever for balance/scaling on them, as others have said.

Malgana12/5/2014, 9:11:46 PM1 votes

His shield used to scale off of AD, but then Riot said it was too OP and changed it to AP.

Riot also then went on to release Riven, whose AD scaling shield makes it so all she has to do is build AD then slap the keyboard to play, but apparently it's fine on her.

Junkο12/5/2014, 9:53:31 PM1 votes

It's because AP used to be the stat you built for more ability damage, there was no such thing as AD scalings (or they were very weak).

CaptnJakSparrow12/5/2014, 10:41:44 PM1 votes

Though, it was this build to be exact.

item 3020 item 3100 item 3115 item 3128 item 3068 item 3116 Runes: All Crit.

ModCaptainMårvelous12/6/2014, 4:50:01 AM1 votes

Mostly it's archaic, but part of the reason is also because you don't want to completely ignore a stat on an item you want.

Take for example Urgot and item 3025

Sure, Urgot doesn't use AP mainly but at least it's not entirely wasted on him.

Hullabaloo90712/5/2014, 4:35:45 PM1 votes

Yas is another good example. Why ap scaling on that e?

Tripgnosis12/5/2014, 5:50:05 PM1 votes

Well from what I've read so far it seems lkie maybe its more along the lines of Urgot being in dire need of an update. AP on Yas seems worthwhile from what HeraldOne says, and gunblade on Gnar seems worthwhile from what AGarner says. Again, I dont play these champs so i'm just deferring to their opinions. And since Cait does have 2 abilities that scale with AP, it may be worth it for her as well... But i cant think of and have heard no example of how to utilize AP on Urgot. Unless "spamming Q to hell" with gunbalde IS the answer. Appreciate all the insights and opinions.

Akeito12/5/2014, 6:24:15 PM1 votes

Jax is the most classy reason here

Some "mage" also have slight scaling with AD, Akali Mordekaiser

CoCo BoEy12/5/2014, 7:15:21 PM1 votes

Kinda like ashe, her ult is ap scaled and I have went ap ashe before to see the difference and damage. Even with all ap items her ult she didn't do crap...

SummonerSquid12/5/2014, 7:15:46 PM1 votes

item 3078 OP