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"Drivers who don't curse run into less traffic going to work." - Riot Games

Urgonnalearn2day·9/28/2015, 12:29:04 PM·49 votes·4,227 views

I just woke up and was thinking about some of the concepts we just don't challenge as a community that we should. This will be a simple list and you guys and gals can add onto it.

About the title. It's a joke based on Riot's view of cursing in games causing you to lose more. Unfortunately correlation does not mean causation. Teams that win tend to not cuss because things are going well. Also typing in LoL is generally stupid in it's own right and can cause a loss. I'm betting you'll find less typing on winning teams also. Let's be real people.
The way Solo Q works is in itself toxic. 1 person can hold 4 other people hostage and there's literally nothing you can do about it. Yeah if they curse in game or afk you can get them a slap on the wrist, but then they just learn to say nothing in game or move around. Not only that.... people actually BEG the person not to be a jerk. This stuff stays with you to the next game.
We need a way to remove someone in champ select because it would honestly make the game WAY better. Yet we are worried about that 1 person's feelings..... that the other 4 people don't want on their team. Just make it so teams cannot abuse it and we're golden.

..... ladies and gentlemen you can take it from here:

66 Comments

Hyrum Graff9/28/2015, 1:56:14 PM51 votes

"Aggressive drivers get cut off more often." -Riot Games

That's a better parallel. Because cursing has no effect on your fellow drivers, but being toxic does have an effect on fellow teammates.

So yes, it's true. If I'm on the highway, there are a few random jerks who will cut me off at every chance they get, weaving in and out of lanes so they can make it to work just a little bit faster, and I can't do jack shit about them. But the majority of drivers are NOT like that, except if I repeatedly cut them off, they're more likely to try to stop me or cut me off in return.

3tyson9/28/2015, 12:40:50 PM15 votes

Thing is everyone in lol knows best

you know better than me what i should do

people would get removed for picking certain champs

I can honestly tell that if i have to suport im most likely best of playing leblanc sup

with 3 snares and free warding all over the enemy jg on her w i feel like shes a leggit suport

This would not be allowed annymore until its a normal thig in lcs

Jubbinaut9/28/2015, 3:13:24 PM10 votes

{quoted}

About the title. It's a joke based on Riot's view of cursing in games causing you to lose more. Unfortunately correlation does not mean causation. Teams that win tend to not cuss because things are going well. Also typing in LoL is generally stupid in it's own right and can cause a loss. I'm betting you'll find less typing on winning teams also. Let's be real people.

Riot doesn't care about cursing in games. I have never understood where this idea comes from. Profanity - in and of itself - is neither frowned-upon, nor is it considered punishable. Additionally, Riot's statements make no claims of causation - they only indicate correlation.

The way Solo Q works is in itself toxic. 1 person can hold 4 other people hostage and there's literally nothing you can do about it. Yeah if they curse in game or afk you can get them a slap on the wrist, but then they just learn to say nothing in game or move around. Not only that.... people actually BEG the person not to be a jerk. This stuff stays with you to the next game.

I... would love an explanation of how 1 person can keep the other 4 from leaving the game when they want to. I mean, it requires a supermajority to surrender, but that's not at all the same thing as a unanimous decision.

We need a way to remove someone in champ select because it would honestly make the game WAY better. Yet we are worried about that 1 person's feelings..... that the other 4 people don't want on their team. Just make it so teams cannot abuse it and we're golden.

Sounds simple enough. So how would we make that unabusable?

Live-scan of the chat to determine the validity of the vote? Hrm. No, that wouldn't help anything if you're trying to vote out someone that silently auto-locked.
Pre-determined pick criteria to determine validity? That goes pretty strongly against Riot's "not defining the meta" stance - probably not a good plan.

Well, that's all I can think of - but then, I didn't really sleep last night, so I'm a little brain dead. Perhaps you've got some more workable thoughts on it?

B3ER9/28/2015, 12:45:38 PM6 votes

Riot wouldn't know what to do about toxicity even if they had a guy with a Ph.D in Neuroscience.

ThePartyLeader9/28/2015, 4:03:35 PM4 votes

I would have to believe the actual parallel would be drivers in traffic who curse or rage get in more accidents. I would think this would be true but obviously don't have stats.

Daen9/28/2015, 6:55:40 PM3 votes

Also typing in LoL is generally stupid in it's own right and can cause a loss. I'm betting you'll find less typing on winning teams also. Let's be real people.

I don't really calculate my experience in wins or losses. What I can say, however, is that games where there's lots of typing (read: positive) are generally a lot more enjoyable. When I'm able to interact with my team, engage with the enemy in light banter, etc. it makes the game feel a lot more alive.

Just my opinion, of course, YMMV.

Daen9/28/2015, 3:54:45 PM2 votes

So, while I agree in general that there are some issues with correlation vs causation in some of Riot's statistics, your title is misleading. As Hyrum Graff mentioned, the difference between Riot's statement and yours is that there is a correlation with theirs. There is no correlation whatsoever between a driver cursing to him or her self and encountering more drivers, they just aren't dependent scenarios.

That being said, the statement "toxic players lose more" is a tricky pickle. It is true, because a toxic player can lower morale, but I doubt it's true to quite the extent Riot shows us due to the fact players who are losing already are more likely to be toxic.

bulldoggamer9/28/2015, 6:25:13 PM2 votes

I've found that if you stay positive, forgiving, and compliment often you don't run into toxic players nearly as much as if you go on the defensive. Alot of toxicity can be prevented through your own attitude. People will be salty from coming off a bad game of dealing with real life. If you have their back and let them know that making mistakes is ok they can turn it around and you can just stomp teams. You never can control other people but you can control yourself and your attitude can either negatively or positively impact those around you.

iainB859/28/2015, 6:51:17 PM2 votes

Seems like a silly thing to nit pick on.

Sure, they are omitting causality in that statement -- but if it makes even just one player have a more positive attitude then what's the harm?

KING OF MASKS9/28/2015, 1:29:53 PM2 votes

Extremely accurate thread title, rito's shitty use of statistics has always bothered me.

Narsicus9/28/2015, 10:53:32 PM2 votes

The point of that comment is that your actions can and do affect the other people in your games. Your behavior will impact your allies, and while everyone responds differently, most people do not respond positively to a teammate screaming at them for sucking.

When it comes down to it, League is a team game and as such working with others is something that is a necessary part of that experience. Sometimes you are going to get relatively poor teammates that you have to make up for, sometimes you are going to have great teammates that carry the game, and sometimes you will be the teammate in either the first or second example. It all happens.

You can only account for yourself in these scenarios and what is important to remember if you care about winning (and most people do) is that the best chance you have of success is when your team is playing at their individual best. And because your actions can and do influence the behavior of your teammates you can choose to be a positive force that keeps morale up and stops people from going on tilt and try to stay in the game for a chance to snag victory, or you can be a negative force that makes your team haggard and wary and likely to give in at the first sign the scales are tipping.

What I am getting at here is there is only one person you can depend on to improve the cohesion and play of your team and unsurprisingly that person is you. Could the system be better? Absolutely there is always room for improvement. But regardless of the changes they make if you are running into solo queue you are always going to have to deal with random teammates, how you choose to interact with these people is up to you.

Magister Ragun9/29/2015, 7:20:40 AM2 votes

Oh man! Correlation does not equal causation, and losing causes toxicity! Good thing you spotted that! I am sure the player behavior team at riot with their statistics Phds would be interested in learning about this effect! Aren't they just silly? Just like how physicists think that something exploded into nothing in the big bang? didn't anyone ever tell them that nothing can't explode?

Or you know, being professionals they control for that factor and look at how cursing effects future play, and study success of games given their earlier state rather than just comparing two big numbers.

AbyssionKnight9/29/2015, 5:42:12 PM1 votes

The title isn't an accurate representation of Riots Stance. "People who curse while driving get into more Accidents" is a more accurate representation of Riots opinion, and is factually sound. A high emotion driver is going to be more aggressive while driving. That means more risks, and hitting the gas / brake harder. More aggressive driving does increase your odds of getting into an accident because aggressive driving is often unsafe.

The same applies to the game. An angry player is more likely to lose the game, because they are letting their emotions get the better of them. They're willing to make more risky plays, usually pay less attention to the map, and in their frustration either go too deep into a team fight (hitting the gas hard) or have no faith in their team and pull out early (hitting the brake hard). Overly emotional playstyles tend to result in more losses because your emotions tend to prevent you from being as tactical as someone with a cool head.

Of course that's not an absolute, and some players can be completely toxic or constantly angry and still win / play to the best of their abilities. Riot is just talking in broad strokes though, not implying everyone is the same.

Photos of Ghosts9/28/2015, 11:43:19 PM1 votes

If drivers could hear each others, well, drivers who insult others would be more likely to be involved in crashes. So you're a ridiculous flamer trying to justify their flaming by discrediting Lyte, who pulls numbers out of a weird place of his and yet you don't even manage to correctly discredit him off of that.

BeMyFriendPlease9/29/2015, 4:33:57 AM1 votes

Welcome to league of "let bullies have their way or be banned for it"

DeynaTaggerung9/29/2015, 5:49:49 PM1 votes

In this case I'd agree with Riot for several reasons.

When one person is being a jerk(let's assume cursing means in a rude demaning way) it fractures team cohesion, and whatever you may believe League is a VERY team focused game and if the team isn't working together they'll lose pretty quickly.
Being rude and aggressive puts people on tilt much more quickly, so losing lanes will lose harder
Generally at the point a player loses their calm they begin to give up on the game. Especially in lower elo this means they don't look for way to come back in the game and don't take advantage of throws the opposing team does.

While players who don't cuss may still experience these problems a negative/rude teammate just makes all of them worse and because of that causes the people in those games to be more likely to lose.

TNHA Baritone9/28/2015, 8:12:24 PM1 votes

Its not JUST CURSING. It's cursing at your teammates with negative intentions.

Gorgannan9/28/2015, 8:30:52 PM1 votes

The example is bad. Winning doesn't always happen but getting to work will. I'd like to point out also that they could easily say not being toxic makes you win more by only including comebacks. Also I feel there is equal cursing in wins and losses.