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Is curbstomping acceptable behavior and, if so, why?

LegendaryLemur··15 votes·2,319 views

This got deleted from Team Recruitment, which is where i think it belongs, so i guess i'll post it here?

[Deleted] Is curbstomping acceptable behavior and, if so, why? LegendaryLemur (NA) submitted 16 minutes ago in Team Recruitment

I've been noticing multiple threads recently made by high elo players looking to gather high elo smurfs to play normals. This is the same mode where novices are first getting their feet wet, so it results in curbstomps.

As far as I know this behavior isn't against Riot's rules, but it certainly seems to me that it violates the Golden Rule ("Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you.")

I'm at a loss for how people justify these curbstomps to themselves morally. I'm not willing to accept that there are this many sociopaths in the community, even if its easier to ignore empathy through the veil of anonymity provided by the internet.

I can see how someone might want to smurf if they are struggling and not very good at the game so want to retry at a lower level, or if they want to team up with novice friends. I'm only referring to groups of high-elo smurfs who play together, presumably with the intention of curbstomping.

Is it that it's so widespread that the mentality has become "well if everyone else does it, why can't I"? I just can't seem to wrap my head around any justifiable ethical resoution. Would anyone who's participated in curbstomps (on the stomping side) care to comment?

DeepInYouAGAIN (NA)

  • 11 minutes ago

puts hair on your chest

Shinichu (NA)

  • 10 minutes ago

They will be matched w the newcomers at first but then their high normal mmr will match them with other smurfs. this has been said before.

Edit : The mmr is hidden but it's there

redniwediS (NA)

  • 11 minutes ago

My understanding is that it is a byproduct of the current policy. In order to maintain the current amount of account creating freedom we have we have to put up with certain things, like skilled players smurfing. Riot either does not or currently cannot find a way to limit this behavior without infringing on players who are following sportsmanlike behavior to an unacceptable degree.

This is, of course, just my opinion on the matter. Hopefully either a Rioter ends up replying here or someone with an older source links it.

David Wu (NA)

  • 10 minutes ago

the golden rule ayy ylmaoooo

LegendaryLemur (NA)

  • 7 minutes ago

    [QUOTE}redniwediS (NA) - 11 minutes ago

    My understanding is that it is a byproduct of the current policy. In order to maintain the current amount of account creating freedom we have we have to put up with certain things, like skilled players smurfing. Riot either does not or currently cannot find a way to limit this behavior without infringing on players who are following sportsmanlike behavior to an unacceptable degree.

    This is, of course, just my opinion on the matter. Hopefully either a Rioter ends up replying here or someone with an older source links it.[/QUOTE]

To clarify my intent, i'm not asking why Riot doesn't attempt to forbid it, i'm asking how the people who participate in it justify it to themsleves on an ethical level.

Guardian4585 (NA)

  • 8 minutes ago

I cant remember what Youtuber said it but he said "playing in low elo,even if yer high elo,can really mess you up." Basicly what he said was If your Diamond for example then go play vs Bronze for say 2 weeks youll get used to players making bigger mistakes rather than in Diamond where they wont make mistakes as bad. then youll go back to your diamond elo name where people are good and great at the game. youll get wrecked pretty easily against them because your used to the terrible mistakes people make.

LegendaryLemur (NA)

  • 7 minutes ago

    [QUOTE] Shinichu (NA) - 12 minutes ago

    They will be matched w the newcomers at first but then their high normal mmr will match them with other smurfs. this has been said before.

    Edit : The mmr is hidden but it's there[/QUOTE]

Yes i'm aware of that, but i've seen people recruiting for high-elo smurf parties pre-level 10, and i can't imagine the novices get filtered out until level 20 or so (1 in 1000 novices will win their first 10 games if they are matched against other novices, which already is giving at least this subset a high mmr).

redniwediS (NA)

  • 6 minutes ago

    [QUOTE] LegendaryLemur (NA) - 12 minutes ago

    To clarify my intent, i'm not asking why Riot doesn't attempt to forbid it, i'm asking how the people who participate in it justify it to themsleves on an ethical level.[/QUOTE]

Well, my understanding of that is these people don't view it as an ethical problem. They are simply playing a game and having fun. The issue of that fun coming at the expense of others does not come to mind for them, or if it does they simply do not care about it.

86 Comments

LegendaryLemur3 votes

{quoted}

Well, my understanding of that is these people don't view it as an ethical problem. They are simply playing a game and having fun. The issue of that fun coming at the expense of others does not come to mind for them, or if it does they simply do not care about it.

Well that leaves me back wondering how so many people can be sociopaths.

AxlStream1 votes

Man's love for destruction is infinite. I mean we do have champions who are all about blowing stuff up.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

Man's love for destruction is infinite. I mean we do have champions who are all about blowing stuff up.

I dunno, yeah its fun blowing stuff up, but in my experience most people don't hurt other people without a reason. I mean people will do it for personal gain, oil whatever, i get that. I just don't see where the self-interest is in this scenario.

AxlStream1 votes

You said it yourself. "Personal gain". They get immense satisfaction from causing you misery.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

You said it yourself. "Personal gain". They get immense satisfaction from causing you misery.

I guess this is the part i don't get. In my experience people only get pleasure out of hurting people when they have a reason to dislike the person. Are there really many sadists who derive pleasure from griefing total strangers? What makes it pleasurable?

AxlStream1 votes

Well being kind of an ass myself. I don't enjoy doing well as much as I enjoy seeing you struggle. Much like a hunter toying with it's prey. When I win a ranked game, I'm not happy about the gains I made, I'm happy about the regression I caused the enemy team. Also the fact that it happens to total strangers just makes me emotionally detached from it all. There is no you, no team, only me. Pure selfishness I guess.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

Well being kind of an ass myself. I don't enjoy doing well as much as I enjoy seeing you struggle. Much like a hunter toying with it's prey. When I win a ranked game, I'm not happy about the gains I made, I'm happy about the regression I caused the enemy team. Also the fact that it happens to total strangers just makes me emotionally detached from it all. There is no you, no team, only me. Pure selfishness I guess.

I don't know; you haven't really convinced me. This sounds like you are just putting on a face or making a joke.

AxlStream1 votes

Point is, they don't care about others and neither do I. It's amazing what you turn into when you don't have a single fuck to give.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

Point is, they don't care about others and neither do I. It's amazing what you turn into when you don't have a single fuck to give.

You still aren't really selling it.

AxlStream1 votes

I'm not trying to be Billy Mays here. I'm just explaining it, not trying to make it sound attractive.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not trying to be Billy Mays here. I'm just explaining it, not trying to make it sound attractive.

Yeah its just if you so much don't gaf, why are you bothering to explain stuff to me?

AxlStream1 votes

You asked a question and I felt like answering.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

You asked a question and I felt like answering.

So you really honestly don't care about other people? How can you live that way? Do you not prefer a world where everyone cares about each other to one where no one does? Don't we all share equal responsibility for creating that world?

FearEngineer1 votes

He's just a fucking douche. What else do you want him to say? He's not going to admit it.

Just look at him go, in all his glory.

PubgamerAU1 votes

Honestly, speaking as someone like the guy you replied to(not giving a fuck about anything) I would rather see a world where I get anything I want and everyone else gets nothing. shrug It's not personal, it's just the way I feel. It's about as changeable as your sexual orientation.

We really just don't care about how someone we don't know, will likely never meet again, and who is really just pixels on a screen, feels.

I, personally, fully admit that I'm a douchebag. I've never tried to hide it. It's just who I am. Just like some people are happy go lucky sharing is caring types, I'm a dont give a fuck couldn't care if you died type.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, speaking as someone like the guy you replied to(not giving a fuck about anything) I would rather see a world where I get anything I want and everyone else gets nothing. shrug It's not personal, it's just the way I feel. It's about as changeable as your sexual orientation.

We really just don't care about how someone we don't know, will likely never meet again, and who is really just pixels on a screen, feels.

I, personally, fully admit that I'm a douchebag. I've never tried to hide it. It's just who I am. Just like some people are happy go lucky sharing is caring types, I'm a dont give a fuck couldn't care if you died type.

Its just weird i've never met a sociopath in real life. At least as far as i know.

KGBcommunist1 votes

He may think its cool and sure sociopaths do have a tremendous advantage on our society by not feeling anything but thats the thing, they dont feel any emotion. Even the enjoyable kind like love. Ill pass on bieng a heartless douchenOzzle anyday.

JedenVojak3 votes

I would say, "Because they can."

Aside from that, so people who are high elo are not allowed to get a bunch of friends together to form a new character team and start up from the bottom?

"Sorry dude, you're just to skilled to play at this level, you're not allowed to make a new account and play with your friends."

Normally I get pretty annoyed when people say something stupid along the lines of "Psh, you're below gold/plat/diamond/whatever so your opinion doesn't matter", but you're even worse than those jerk-heads - at least they're not contending that people shouldn't even be allowed to play the game.

Your contention is that, once people reach a certain level of skill in the game, they should never be allowed to create a new accounts with friends at all, at least, vs normal people? They must play bots?

Who do you think you are?

LegendaryLemur2 votes

{quoted}

I would say, "Because they can."

Aside from that, so people who are high elo are not allowed to get a bunch of friends together to form a new character team and start up from the bottom?

"Sorry dude, you're just to skilled to play at this level, you're not allowed to make a new account and play with your friends."

Normally I get pretty annoyed when people say something stupid along the lines of "Psh, you're below gold/plat/diamond/whatever so your opinion doesn't matter", but you're even worse than those jerk-heads - at least they're not contending that people shouldn't even be allowed to play the game.

Your contention is that, once people reach a certain level of skill in the game, they should never be allowed to create a new accounts with friends at all, at least, vs normal people? They must play bots?

Who do you think you are?

Yeah i think it makes it very hard for new players, and we should be trying to make things as easy as possible for new players to learn. I'm not trying to dictate anyone's behavior though. I'm trying to understand their mentality, because it's so different from my own.

I would never do curbstomps because it would make me feel awful about myself, and i'm trying to understand why it doesn't make other people feel that way.

Biffolo1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah i think it makes it very hard for new players, and we should be trying to make things as easy as possible for new players to learn. I'm not trying to dictate anyone's behavior though. I'm trying to understand their mentality, because it's so different from my own.

I would never do curbstomps because it would make me feel awful about myself, and i'm trying to understand why it doesn't make other people feel that way.

Now, I don't speak for everyone at all here, but i'd like to give some insight. To start things off, I'll say I wish to be an lcs player one day. As such, playing the game became much more about improving as much as I can, and getting maximum efficiency out of every action I take. So, presume I was going to level up a smurf. The thought of bots never crosses my mind. And even if it did, you are limited in how much rewards you get from those if you play for any longer than three hours. "Curbstomping" as you call it, is just more effective in the long term. Also, I feel my ability to close out games quicly is higher vs new players than bots. If a game gets to the 20 minute mark, the people at least have a chance of surrendering, while bots never would.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

Now, I don't speak for everyone at all here, but i'd like to give some insight. To start things off, I'll say I wish to be an lcs player one day. As such, playing the game became much more about improving as much as I can, and getting maximum efficiency out of every action I take. So, presume I was going to level up a smurf. The thought of bots never crosses my mind. And even if it did, you are limited in how much rewards you get from those if you play for any longer than three hours. "Curbstomping" as you call it, is just more effective in the long term. Also, I feel my ability to close out games quicly is higher vs new players than bots. If a game gets to the 20 minute mark, the people at least have a chance of surrendering, while bots never would.

Yeah but that 3 hour limit to bot rewards only applies after level 15, and even i (not that good a player) have beaten intermediate bots in under 12 minutes with random teammates, i can't imagine how fast a team of plat smurfs could do it.

And if you are so concerned with maximum efficiency why are you leveling a smurf? Just on your main account. Okay maybe your main is suspended or something. Are novices really better practice than bots? I can't believe either one does anything to improve your skillset.

Biffolo1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but that 3 hour limit to bot rewards only applies after level 15, and even i (not that good a player) have beaten intermediate bots in under 12 minutes with random teammates, i can't imagine how fast a team of plat smurfs could do it.

And if you are so concerned with maximum efficiency why are you leveling a smurf? Just on your main account. Okay maybe your main is suspended or something. Are novices really better practice than bots? I can't believe either one does anything to improve your skillset.

Well, I could be leveling a smurf to try out new champs in a more tryhard environment than normals, but not where I am at my maximum competition. Say, keep it one entire tier below my main if at all possible. Also, Me and some other people I know actually close out games against people quicker than bots, because people are more likely to make a mistake when new to the game. They die more, which gets me more gold, so I can close quicker. Bots are so much more passive than your average new player sometimes it can be annoying to try and kill them over and over.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

Well, I could be leveling a smurf to try out new champs in a more tryhard environment than normals, but not where I am at my maximum competition. Say, keep it one entire tier below my main if at all possible. Also, Me and some other people I know actually close out games against people quicker than bots, because people are more likely to make a mistake when new to the game. They die more, which gets me more gold, so I can close quicker. Bots are so much more passive than your average new player sometimes it can be annoying to try and kill them over and over.

Okay that makes sense why you would want to level a smurf. That hadn't really occurred to me.

In my experience the fastest way to beat bots is to level up to 6, put everyone mid, push the bots out of lane and knock the towers down. Eventually you'll ace them (or 5 to 1, whatever) and take the nexus. Especially if you take multiple adcs to push towers down quickly, maybe take teleport if you are concerned about dying, this can make the game go quite fast.

FearEngineer2 votes

Sorry, just trying to level faster so I can do this the entire time I'm on this account anyway.

Because that makes sense.

Biffolo1 votes

{quoted}

Okay that makes sense why you would want to level a smurf. That hadn't really occurred to me.

In my experience the fastest way to beat bots is to level up to 6, put everyone mid, push the bots out of lane and knock the towers down. Eventually you'll ace them (or 5 to 1, whatever) and take the nexus. Especially if you take multiple adcs to push towers down quickly, maybe take teleport if you are concerned about dying, this can make the game go quite fast.

I've actually had times where bots properly cleared minion waves though is the thing. Most players don't react to a rush-down tactic like that, and just kind of freeze up. Bots at least have some semblance of a way to react to a blitzkreig, while new players simply can't

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

I've actually had times where bots properly cleared minion waves though is the thing. Most players don't react to a rush-down tactic like that, and just kind of freeze up. Bots at least have some semblance of a way to react to a blitzkreig, while new players simply can't

You can just poke the bots low and they'll back to base, then take the tower or dive if there are only 2 or 3 left.

Or hell go play Twisted Treeline against bots. Then you can win in like 5 minutes easy.

Biffolo1 votes

{quoted}

You can just poke the bots low and they'll back to base, then take the tower or dive if there are only 2 or 3 left.

Or hell go play Twisted Treeline against bots. Then you can win in like 5 minutes easy.

Well, taking the turrets can take some time without items. If the bots base, you aren't killing them. If you aren't killing them, you aren't getting massive gold spikes. You still take turrets faster killing each member of their team 5-8 times before grouping to end.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

Well, taking the turrets can take some time without items. If the bots base, you aren't killing them. If you aren't killing them, you aren't getting massive gold spikes. You still take turrets faster killing each member of their team 5-8 times before grouping to end.

Well that should happen on your way to level 6 before you group mid. Well i dunno about 8 times but maybe half that.

Biffolo1 votes

{quoted}

Well that should happen on your way to level 6 before you group mid. Well i dunno about 8 times but maybe half that.

If you wish to insist bots are faster than fine. Whatever, I find stomping players to be quicker, you find bots. Let's also look at how much enjoyment there is. Because even though I talked about maximum efficiency earlier, you can relax a little bit when facing lvl 5 people. Stomping the same person time and time again is more enjoyable than an emotionless bot.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

Stomping the same person time and time again is more enjoyable than an emotionless bot.

Except for the stomped person with emotions.

Biffolo1 votes

{quoted}

Except for the stomped person with emotions.

Ok, hold up. You want me to care about some stranger, that I have never met, more likely than not never will meet, and even if I do I won't know it's them?

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, hold up. You want me to care about some stranger, that I have never met, more likely than not never will meet, and even if I do I won't know it's them?

Its not so much that i want you to if you don't, its that i do and i don't understand why not everyone else does.

Biffolo1 votes

{quoted}

Its not so much that i want you to if you don't, its that i do and i don't understand why not everyone else does.

Well, basically. Why should you? Those people mean nothing to you. Hell, they may as well not even be people for the time you are in game. You are there to crush them and improve so you can crush the next group as well. All they are is obstacles and markers to signal your improvement.

Aych Pii2 votes

What if Riot added an option when creating a new account to self-identify as a smurf? You'd have your mmr judged as normal but wouldn't be matched with players who didn't choose to make that distinction until level 20 or so, at which point your mmr would already have accumulated to the point that you were separated from new players unless you were of a relatively low level to begin with.

The specifics could be adjusted but presumably a system that generally followed that description should appeal to you, someone who's interested in improving as a player more than stomping games and having fun. I guarantee that in that hypothetical scenario we'd still have people making smurfs and pretending to be completely new players so they can pick on less experienced players and have easy games, though; those people are the real problem with smurfing.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aych Pii,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=UHXzrVcm,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2015-04-25T20:16:03.940+0000)

What if Riot added an option when creating a new account to self-identify as a smurf? You'd have your mmr judged as normal but wouldn't be matched with players who didn't choose to make that distinction until level 20 or so, at which point your mmr would already have accumulated to the point that you were separated from new players unless you were of a relatively low level to begin with.

The specifics could be adjusted but presumably a system that generally followed that description should appeal to you, someone who's interested in improving as a player more than stomping games and having fun. I guarantee that in that hypothetical scenario we'd still have people making smurfs and pretending to be completely new players so they can pick on less experienced players and have easy games, though; those people are the real problem with smurfing.

I think this would be a step in the right direction. Good suggestion!

FearEngineer2 votes

Because we can. No, because we must.

KGBcommunist2 votes

Smurfs can seriously fuck right off. They ruin the game and experience for newer players and theres a special place in hell for them. If any of you smurf and do it too dominate lesser opponents, please uninstall. -rage mode over

disregardable1 votes

Team Recruitment isn't really for discussing the recruitment of teams/team dynamics/the purpose of game modes. It's just literally for "Looking for Diamond Smurf to Boost Me", etc.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=UHXzrVcm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-24T23:13:08.942+0000)

Team Recruitment isn't really for discussing the recruitment of teams/team dynamics/the purpose of game modes. It's just literally for "Looking for Diamond Smurf to Boost Me", etc.

Ok fair enough.

disregardable1 votes

Also, I wouldn't necessarily assume that most people group up for the strict purpose of curbstomping. I'm not high Elo, but I would definitely group with some Diamonds and "curbstomp" to get my LAN smurf to 30 quickly. Who wants to spend 40 minutes with shit players and possibly lose over and over again?

LegendaryLemur2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=UHXzrVcm,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-24T23:18:18.145+0000)

Also, I wouldn't necessarily assume that most people group up for the strict purpose of curbstomping. I'm not high Elo, but I would definitely group with some Diamonds and "curbstomp" to get my LAN smurf to 30 quickly. Who wants to spend 40 minutes with shit players and possibly lose over and over again?

Sure but you can level up just as rapidly on coop vs ai until level 20 without forcing novices into horribly frustrating matchups.

disregardable1 votes

The intermediate co-ops take 40 minutes, and it's only until level 15.

LegendaryLemur2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=UHXzrVcm,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-24T23:22:22.391+0000)

The intermediate co-ops take 40 minutes, and it's only until level 15.

No intermediate bots provide full rewards through level 19 (source: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Co-op_vs._AI ). I don't understand what you mean about 40 minutes?

EDIT: ok after 180 minutes of coop play per day you do receive reduced rewards after level 15, but are you really spending over 3 hours per day leveling your smurf??

FearEngineer1 votes

So basically what you're saying is...

Who the fuck would want to play the game?

Because that's pretty much what this entire game is.

Congrats champ. You are cool.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

I'd say they're primarily doing it to win every game they play and thus gain more IP (and XP?) per game to get the smurf to 30 as fast as possible and with as many champions/runes as possible.

These smurf teams will win their first 30 games most likely and at this point they'll be level 8-10 and will be getting matched up with level 20+ players. If they're still stomping they'll get level 12-13 and be matched against level 30s. Heck, when I first started I had watched friends play and had general game knowledge and thus had a good win-rate early on and I was matched against level 30s as early as level 11 (these were likely duo queues though) and was regularly matched with almost only level 30s after level 18 (I remember explicitly thinking it was really unfair that all of my opponents had access to all runes/masteries and I couldn't use the top tier mastery and didn't have any runes since I was saving for tier 3s).

The point being, I think their justification is:

  1. For a while, even if they're the only smurf in the game they'll stomp just as hard
  2. Any bad luck with teammates resulting in them not being able to carry a game will set back their elo-soaring-abilities and result in more games being played against significantly worse players
  3. They're looking to win every game easily so as to get the most IP possible
  4. It's more fun to play with friends - leveling to 30 the first time was a grind at times (especially levels 27-30 when you're almost there) and I can't imagine doing it again, so if anyone is they probably want to chat and goof off along the way.
LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

I'd say they're primarily doing it to win every game they play and thus gain more IP (and XP?) per game to get the smurf to 30 as fast as possible and with as many champions/runes as possible.

These smurf teams will win their first 30 games most likely and at this point they'll be level 8-10 and will be getting matched up with level 20+ players. If they're still stomping they'll get level 12-13 and be matched against level 30s. Heck, when I first started I had watched friends play and had general game knowledge and thus had a good win-rate early on and I was matched against level 30s as early as level 11 (these were likely duo queues though) and was regularly matched with almost only level 30s after level 18 (I remember explicitly thinking it was really unfair that all of my opponents had access to all runes/masteries and I couldn't use the top tier mastery and didn't have any runes since I was saving for tier 3s).

The point being, I think their justification is:

  1. For a while, even if they're the only smurf in the game they'll stomp just as hard
  2. Any bad luck with teammates resulting in them not being able to carry a game will set back their elo-soaring-abilities and result in more games being played against significantly worse players
  3. They're looking to win every game easily so as to get the most IP possible
  4. It's more fun to play with friends - leveling to 30 the first time was a grind at times (especially levels 27-30 when you're almost there) and I can't imagine doing it again, so if anyone is they probably want to chat and goof off along the way.

See my comment above, they can just use coop vs ai until level 20 to avoid frustrating novices.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

Caveat: I haven't read this comment you mentioned, I looked but there are a lot of comments and I couldn't find it.

It's not the responsibility of the Smurf to play co-op vs AI. Why do new players think they should jump straight in to PvP? Smurfs are ready for PvP, new players are NOT. There's a lot to learn in co-op vs AI for a new player and those matches can be a lot of fun (especially because they aren't going to stomp you). Co-op vs AI is often no fun whatsoever for experienced players.

Despite having game knowledge before I started playing, I started exclusively on co-op vs AI. I started with beginner, and once I was able to comfortably win beginner I tried intermediate. Lost a game or two on intermediate. Once I was able to consistently beat an intermediate bot in lane I tried PvP. I played about 2 weeks before starting PvP despite already knowing the general gameplay.

So frankly, I have no pity for new players who go straight in to PvP and lose so hard they can't learn anything about the game. Co-op vs AI is there for a reason, the primary one being to teach new players.

And back to my comment - Smurfs are grouping to get IP and XP as fast as possible. You get more in PvP than in co-op v AI, even pre-level-20. While you only get deducted IP in beginner after 10 and intermediate after 20, the base amounts are still lower than the base amounts in PvP. Also, winning AI games is only going to raise their MMR so much, it will cap out. They'll get to their skill level a lot faster winning PvP games. Meanwhile, new players winning some and losing some Co-op v AI games will result in their MMR moving to an appropriate level while they learn.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

You get more in PvP than in co-op v AI, even pre-level-20. While you only get deducted IP in beginner after 10 and intermediate after 20, the base amounts are still lower than the base amounts in PvP.

Source? This appears to be false according to: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Experience_%28summoner%29 and http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Influence_Points

ValyrianBlade1 votes

The second source you listed works fine.

As it says (in the Co-op Vs AI Section): "The rule for minimum IP reward does not apply (a match shorter than 25 minutes will give less IP than a match of 25 minutes)."

It's fairly safe to assume these curbstomps are ending before 25 minutes, and hence they're being rewarded at the floor. A co-op vs AI game is likely to end equally early and will not be given a floor.

Furthermore, there's a limit (3 hours per day) of gains from Co-op vs AI. New players are unlikely to immediately start grinding a game for over 3 hours... smurfs on the other hand likely are.

Note: I understand that what I said isn't exactly equal to this. I wasn't sure of how it worked (I didn't have a source) I was just aware that there was some sort of penalty inherent in not doing PvP.

LegendaryLemur1 votes

{quoted}

The second source you listed works fine.

As it says (in the Co-op Vs AI Section): "The rule for minimum IP reward does not apply (a match shorter than 25 minutes will give less IP than a match of 25 minutes)."

It's fairly safe to assume these curbstomps are ending before 25 minutes, and hence they're being rewarded at the floor. A co-op vs AI game is likely to end equally early and will not be given a floor.

Furthermore, there's a limit (3 hours per day) of gains from Co-op vs AI. New players are unlikely to immediately start grinding a game for over 3 hours... smurfs on the other hand likely are.

Note: I understand that what I said isn't exactly equal to this. I wasn't sure of how it worked (I didn't have a source) I was just aware that there was some sort of penalty inherent in not doing PvP.

Alright i did miss that part about the floor, so you're right about that, but the experience page says nothing about a floor and that the rewarded experience is: formula for XP winning a Normal game at level 15-19 is roughly 3m+25 Intermediate Bot games at level 10-14 use the same formula

So to level up fast as possible, you want to play fastest games to get that flat 25 xp from each game.

EDIT: now i see there is a base value added for IP that is less for bots than for classic games. This contradicts the above statement on the page that says the rewarded IP increases linearly with the duration of the game (a line that doesn't go through the origin is called an affine increase, in case anyone was wondering :p).

Again there is the matter of wanting to proc this base value as often as possible, so it would take a bit of thinking to maximize this part. Still if the point of the smurf is to practice some champ that isn't your main, you should have enough IP for that by the time you hit 30 regardless, so i'd think XP is the more important factor.

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