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@Riot - MMR Clamping ~D5?

GundayMonday··2 votes·2,310 views
One Step Forward, Two Steps Back

Question about the LP system for you Riot.

Was ~D2 at the end of the preseason. Grinded back up to Diamond a month or two ago after the reset and have been stuck at D5, 0 LP. Was gaining/losing ~20-30 LP per game, but now I'm getting +8-13 LP per win, and then something like - 25-30 LP per loss. Had to string a 10 game win streak together for my D4 promo series and then had a few 4v5s and fell back to 50LP. This has been going on for a month or so and ~100 games.

Kind of confused because I have a positive win loss ratio and thought the mmr system would be matching me with equally skilled opponents. Very confused why I'm unable to gain any LP. Frustrating to win 3 games in a row to get to 27 LP, lose one game when my mid laner randomly rage quits, and then be right back at zero. Not a great experience.

A few of my friends are complaining about this as well. Is the system working correctly?

If I'm where I should be, is there anything I can do differently to change the LP gains? Do I need to win 200 more games than I lose? Can I be matched with higher ranked opponents? Used to playing with/against master/challenger players, so not scared of competition.

I enjoy playing tanks and supports that make my teammates better. And it's hard to have fun with this playstyle when my teammates don't try to win or lack basic game knowledge. I mean, I had a teammate yesterday ask me what to build on Corki because he's never played adc before (this was in a ranked game). Do I really have to learn and start playing full damage Lee Sin? Please don't make me sink this low Riot!

Takes a lot of fun out of ranked where progress is 1 step forward (with 3 wins), 3 steps back (with 1 loss). Please let me know what's going on here and if there's anything I can do to break the cycle. Starting to get demoralized :'(

22 Comments

S H A Y C 01 votes

There is something not right, and im unsure as to why nothing has been done about it.

GundayMonday1 votes

Well, I could see it working from a "How can we make players play our game more?" kind of perspective. But from a "The system is making me want to play more and have a good experience perspective" it really feels bad.

S H A Y C 01 votes

I cant even see it from a "make players play more" it kind of makes you not want to play LESS..because when you are sitting where he is...why the f would you bother? why not just play a game here and there to make sure you dont get demoted from being innactive, because spamming ranked is getting him literally no where despite being skilled and winning the majority of his games

GundayMonday1 votes

I like a challenge. I want to play with and against better players. This has not been happening in ranked and I cannot climb no matter how well I play. Mentioned elsewhere on the thread that I had to win 10 games in a row just to unlock a promo series for D4. Had two DCs or AFKs in that and then back to 50 LP (Despite winning one game too). Demoralizing when it feels like there's nothing I can do to change the situation.

At the very least, would like to know that I can do X, Y, and Z to start getting normal LP gains again. Do I need to win 100 more games than I lose? Cool! Now I have a measureable goal I can work towards as opposed to hating my teammate with internet problems who just set me back 4 wins with an unlucky disconnect. Know what I mean?

Mirelyght1 votes

huh....usually one of the major selling points of ranking up is to play WITH better players vs better players. its kind of disheartening to see that the same old same old trash is happening in diamond.

GundayMonday1 votes

I don't know if it's happening to everyone. Kind of why I'm asking. Was all excited because I was getting matched with and against pro players at the end of the preseason (Really fun to have 10k people watching you via Trick2g's stream). Now I'm stuck playing with newer players. Which is fine, I'm happy to share game knowledge. But it feels impossible to climb with the LP system working against me.

Not sure though! Maybe I'm where I need to be. Just sad that if I get a random 4v5 from a dc or rage quit, that it undoes 3-4 victories worth of LP.

S H A Y C 01 votes

after looking you up on op.gg....maybe you are where you belong, at least for now. your win rate is literally exactly 50% in your entire season 5 and the last 20 games. i mean 173W 170L (Win Ratio 50%) but even then you shouldnt be losing 30 lp for a loss and winning 13 for a win, something isnt right there. if you are where you should be a win should equal a loss.

GundayMonday1 votes

Yeah, that's what I mean. I definitely had a losing streak a while back. Went from ~+30-50 wins up down to where I am now. But even when I was +50, this kind of stuff was happening. It was right when I hit D5.

~10 LP per win, ~25-30LP gone per loss. That's what I'm asking about. Should that be happening? Is that fair? If it is, what do I do to fix it? Won 10 games in a row at one point, and was still getting 8-13 LP per win. Just seems ridiculous.

S H A Y C 01 votes

I really wish i had an answer for you, its something i have asked about before...but when they see im bronze i get dismissed, told im irrelevant, and they make sure to tell me how bad i am, so i never get any answers. Youre Diamond now, maybe someone will take you seriously enough to demystify how the friggin system works. Good Luck!

GundayMonday1 votes

Awwww, that sucks. Freaking tier discrimination :-)

If I get an answer I'll follow up and let you know.

Starting to wonder if some engineer built the system, left for another gig, and now Riot has no clue how their own system works...

S H A Y C 01 votes

That is entirely possible! Thanks for lookin out man, i doubt you'll find any answers though. i mean, its all based off of a hidden value that we can only estimate with a couple third party websites, so they are hiding the information for a reason and getting answers seems unlikely at best.

GundayMonday1 votes

Well, I don't care about how the mmr is calculated. I just want to know why I'm getting minimal gains for a win and absolutely wrecked for a loss LP wise. Also, what I need to do to get back to normal LP wins/losses. Hoping someone will take a look and drop some knowledge on me. Very possible the system is working fine and I just need to go on a huge winning spree or something.

But yeah! I'll let you know if I find anything.

S H A Y C 01 votes

well according to rito this is all there is:

WHAT DETERMINES HOW MANY LEAGUE POINTS I GAIN FROM WINNING A MATCH? There is only one factor that affects the amount of LP you get: the perceived difficulty of the match, which is based on the MMR difference between the two teams. Being a part of a duo, kill/death ratios, and other statistics does not affect your LP gain.

WHY DOES EVERYONE EARN DIFFERENT AMOUNTS OF LEAGUE POINTS? If your MMR is significantly lower than where the system believes you should be for the division you are in, then your LP gains will be reduced and LP loss will be increased. Alternatively, if your MMR is significantly higher compared to the average your current tier or division, you will gain more LP and lose less. You may even skip promotion series or advance multiple tiers if your MMR significantly outweighs your league.

GundayMonday1 votes

Oh man, OP.GG is brutal. Alright, looks like I need to just win a ton of games and raise mmr. 4v5s be damned!

SanKakU1 votes

I have kind of the opposite story but it ends in a similar fashion. Didn't do as well as I would've liked in the calibration series of 10, first time ever playing ranked, got Silver 3 and have had bronze allies every game or duo queue silver/gold for all my losses. Like nobody cares if you're duo queue higher than solo queue. Put duos with trios and this kind of problem will fix itself. I got booted to Silver 5 with 0 LP and I'm stuck here. I've been playing, so it's not like I'm getting demoted, but I get the same thing as you where I can't gain LP. I'm currently at 41 percent win rate and it's not really getting higher or lower.

Repetition for clarity: Put duos with trios and this kind of problem will fix itself. Put duos with trios and this kind of problem will fix itself.

GundayMonday1 votes

Hmmmm, your winrate might be the reason there. If you're below 50%, you need to climb back to positive before you start seeing different LP gains and better allies/enemies. Curious if you see the same problem once you get up above 50%.

SanKakU1 votes

{quoted}

Hmmmm, your winrate might be the reason there. If you're below 50%, you need to climb back to positive before you start seeing different LP gains and better allies/enemies. Curious if you see the same problem once you get up above 50%.

Do you have LSI? I see the same thing in my games as what I see in the top live games. Stacked teams. One team has 5 players with significantly higher rankings than the players from the other team. I'll never get to 50 percent again, I had 70 percent for my calibration but I don't think even 100 would have been enough to hit gold, definitely not high gold.

GundayMonday1 votes

Well, I don't really care about the other team's rankings. I've been playing since S2 and am confident in my skill (Beaten challenger players on multiple occasions). Sure you're going to get unwinnable games every once in a while. That's any online video game. But I get ~10 LP per win, and ~25-30 LP per loss regardless of if the enemy team is stacked against us or not.

That's what I'm asking about. Is that part of the system working correctly? And what can I do to fix it if I am where I belong?

SanKakU1 votes

Well, maybe they changed it so that everyone doesn't get normal LP gains anymore.

GundayMonday1 votes

That's possible. But why would they do that? Also, with no clarity around it? Takes a lot of the fun out of ranked.

SanKakU1 votes

{quoted}

That's possible. But why would they do that? Also, with no clarity around it? Takes a lot of the fun out of ranked.

So that you can't get to challenger. So that the pros that do things that aren't necessarily smart or optimal are left to compete with others like them. I see the same kind of thing in Dota 2, the system works against genuinely good players from what I can tell. The only reason I don't play Dota 2 anymore is because my toaster literally can't play it anymore.

Bottom line is, unless you find a way to get popular and rich on your own, Riot isn't going to help you to get there. If it were so easy to prove oneself they wouldn't be able to as easily manipulate the masses.

GundayMonday1 votes

Well, I don't care if it's tough. That's kind of why I play this game. I just want to know why the system isn't behaving normally, and what the win conditions are to beat it. That's all.

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