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About the no ranked rewards for toxic players

S0lShadows··11 votes·2,705 views

So, I'm just gonna say this straight up, I am a toxic player. And I am still under a 14 day ban, and I ain't arguing with it. I did deserve it. Now, I plan to become a better player whether that be through muting everyone or stuff like that to make sure it doesn't happen again. But something I saw on Surrender at 20 today sort of got me upset.

So, I was reading that players who have received multiple 20 minute queues or who have received bans due to toxicity will NOT be receiving ranked rewards. Now while I do believe that toxic players, including myself, should be given incentives to reform. But this is NOT an incentive to reform. The solution Riot has come up with to dealing with toxic players is to take away all their ranked rewards, voiding all their work, and then expecting them to want to become better people. With all due respect, that is not how you improve behaviour. That's how you make it worse.

Basically, what I am understanding is "We want toxic players to be less toxic, so what we are going to do is make you receive nothing, regardless of whether or not you reform." I don't agree with this method because even if I am the nicest, kindest person to everyone for the next 3 months - which would PROVE I have changed - I will still not receive the rewards I have been working towards all year.

I hope a Riot employee reads this and does something about it, because I don't think the situation is being properly dealt with....

16 Comments

Chamber4 votes

The thing that burns my britches the most is that Riot has waited until right before Worlds to announce this new policy. If you want to punish toxic players and take away their rewards, then fine so be it I wont argue with that. But at least make this new rule upfront and clear at the BEGINNING of the season and not at the END. Punishing players for what they have done in the past is not productive and does not promote reform.

Atlas The Bird1 votes

{quoted}

The thing that burns my britches the most is that Riot has waited until right before Worlds to announce this new policy. If you want to punish toxic players and take away their rewards, then fine so be it I wont argue with that. But at least make this new rule upfront and clear at the BEGINNING of the season and not at the END. Punishing players for what they have done in the past is not productive and does not promote reform.

Lyte fucked up in making the new changes unclear.

But basically, taking away ranked rewards was always a potential punishment for toxic players and this WAS made clear at the beginning of the 2014 season. (Cant speak for seasons before that.)

Now I'm all for giving players a chance to reform, but losing season rewards was a thing from the beginning.

TurquoiseYoshi4 votes

If they said it at the beginning of the season, it would have been okay. If they said it right before the end of the season (like they did), it's bullshit. And I haven't even been banned/restricted before.

Mr Comet3 votes

This really seems like ex post facto. Latin for "after the fact". It is a law that states that you cannot charge someone for a crime if they committed it before it was ever a crime. I am not saying that being toxic is a crime, but people should be informed of everything that could happen if they do it. Its like charging people for going 50 mph on the road then having the speed limit lowered to 40 and the police charge them for speeding.

S0lShadows2 votes

Yea it is sort of a dumb. I'm cool with the bans and such but if you take away ranked rewards for stuff that happened in the past that's just... no.

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

{quoted}

Yea it is sort of a dumb. I'm cool with the bans and such but if you take away ranked rewards for stuff that happened in the past that's just... no.

Is it really that far in the past though? We are talking about behavior during the current season.

I do think they should have been better about informing people about the policy, but they did this last year so this should not be a surprise.

Swollwonder2 votes

It honestly just gives people more reasons to be toxic. Lets see if I remember my old psych class..

Negative and positive reinforcement comes in the terms of punishments and rewards respectively. So toxic players desire to not be toxic because one they will be punished (negative) and two they get a reward at the end (positive). BOTH of these contribute to the toxic player being less toxic. Therefore taking either away leads to MORE toxicity.

While from a parenting stand point this makes sense it doesn't as far as desired result.

S0lShadows1 votes

Yea but, they should still give people like me the chance to reform and prove that I have changed my behaviour before they take away rewards.

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

{quoted}

Yea but, they should still give people like me the chance to reform and prove that I have changed my behaviour before they take away rewards.

You will have a chance to prove your reform next season. Now you absolutely have to behave to get what you want.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

It honestly just gives people more reasons to be toxic. Lets see if I remember my old psych class..

Negative and positive reinforcement comes in the terms of punishments and rewards respectively. So toxic players desire to not be toxic because one they will be punished (negative) and two they get a reward at the end (positive). BOTH of these contribute to the toxic player being less toxic. Therefore taking either away leads to MORE toxicity.

While from a parenting stand point this makes sense it doesn't as far as desired result.

Sure. Psych 101. Did your class cover what happens when one offers positive reinforcement to persons who engage in the unwanted behavior?

Because what my classes taught me was that this was called "reinforcing unwanted behaviors," and was generally seen as a bad idea - assuming that you're actually trying to discourage a particular behavior.

Swollwonder1 votes

But you're not getting the reward for being toxic. You're getting it from how well you played. At worst they go "I got my border despite being toxic hahahaha". Personally I don't think one person is going to really look back and go "wow if I had just not been toxic I would have gotten that border" for more than a few seconds. But a person WILL think that with better results if theyre being punished in the here and now for their actions.

P.S. despite your statement being right academically it is wrong when put into practice, making your pompus "I know more than you" tone quite silly

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

But you're not getting the reward for being toxic. You're getting it from how well you played. At worst they go "I got my border despite being toxic hahahaha". Personally I don't think one person is going to really look back and go "wow if I had just not been toxic I would have gotten that border" for more than a few seconds. But a person WILL think that with better results if theyre being punished in the here and now for their actions.

Except that - given the requirements applied last season - you're getting it from both.

As of last season, it is required that a player both demonstrate acceptable levels of sportsmanship (which determines whether they receive anything) and play Ranked (which determines which specific rewards they may receive).

If either requirement is not met, rewards are not given.

P.S. despite your statement being right academically it is wrong when put into practice, making your pompus "I know more than you" tone quite silly

My tone was not meaningfully different from yours. And I have to strongly disagree with your claim here. I have found - in my own training exercises - that rewarding an unwanted behavior tends to increase the occurrence of that unwanted behavior. I've seen it in children, in adults, and in animals, which to my mind makes it a fairly universal tendency.

Kãtãrinã1 votes

Riot is debating over the issue and the sort. I'm unsure as to what they are debating but i talked to a rioter in customer support and this is what he said

"Thank you for contacting us about your concerns on this issue. While Lyte posted publicly on the topic of ranked rewards and toxicity, this initiative and its criteria are still being discussed. Everyone has bad days, and I understand you've worked hard all season, not only to earn rewards but on keeping a level head when dealing with in-game frustrations. We don't by any means want to disregard players who are actively making changes to negative habits.

We'll be unable to comment much further on an individual account's eligibility for ranked rewards, as we're still discussing solutions. I know that this may not be the answer you wanted, but we do ask for your patience as work toward the best solution."

Surr20plz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=404Kat Not Found,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Asc07EnY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-24T04:21:29.381+0000)

Riot is debating over the issue and the sort. I'm unsure as to what they are debating but i talked to a rioter in customer support and this is what he said

"Thank you for contacting us about your concerns on this issue. While Lyte posted publicly on the topic of ranked rewards and toxicity, this initiative and its criteria are still being discussed. Everyone has bad days, and I understand you've worked hard all season, not only to earn rewards but on keeping a level head when dealing with in-game frustrations. We don't by any means want to disregard players who are actively making changes to negative habits.

We'll be unable to comment much further on an individual account's eligibility for ranked rewards, as we're still discussing solutions. I know that this may not be the answer you wanted, but we do ask for your patience as work toward the best solution."

Oh great, so this is the form letter I'm going to get.

Are they just placating people so they don't go HAM TROLL in ranked because Lyte accidentally let the cat out of the bag early?

Kãtãrinã1 votes

{quoted}

Oh great, so this is the form letter I'm going to get.

Are they just placating people so they don't go HAM TROLL in ranked because Lyte accidentally let the cat out of the bag early?

Unsure if that is what they are doing or not honestly. In the end only time will tell.

Prismghost1 votes

I think this would have been better if they announced this then said everyone banned/ deemed as toxic at such and such date and past won't get rewards

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