When you see a Darius main complaining about having a terrible laning phase
http://www.themichaelteaching.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/karma.gif
There are still matchups where Darius will get completely stomped early. None of them are ranged champs but still.
Edit: Gnar and Kennen are problems if you don't know how to deal with him so technically there are some raged champs that counter him.
Most of them are ranged. He gets shit on by ranged champs hard, and tends to bully all melee ones
beats him due to early sustain.
I personally think it's (ironically) a skill matchup and it's also based on what the Trundle and Darius have (masteries and summoner spell wise). I have played both sides of the matchup and have done fine. That's one of the reasons why I like ignite on Darius especially in a meta where everyone and their mother has lifesteal or health-regen in almost all stages of the game.
He has trouble with ranged match ups until you get items like what Tychusfindlay919 mentioned. He has problems with melee champs as well that either out maneuver him or are able to stick to him early.
Yea of course but generally Darius is to other Top Laners what Ranged Champions are to Darius. He is a massive lane bully, most of the time the best you can do is just try to survive him.
Not as a general rule, there are a bunch of top laners that actually bully Darius hard and give him a hard time. Darius and how you play him is MUCH more complicated then at first glance. I learned that the hard way after they mini-reworked him last season when I fell in love with him (nu humu).
I wouldn't say a bunch, like i said you generally just survives against him, only a few melee champs can actually bully him.
Renekton, Illoai, Riven, Fiora, Jayce, Pantheon, Tryndamere, Wukong, Kled.
There are a considerable amount of counters to Darius.
But I wasn't complaining, I was talkin bout how I stomped all ranged matchups when I played Darius, thus the Sans dunk meme.
: i'd like to have a word
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: i'd like to have a word
The manaless equivalent of iceborn guantlet ezreal.
the only difference is that
gives you actually good damage and better sticking power.
the only difference is that
gives you actually good damage and better sticking power.
It's a good thing people in NA never caught on to frozen mallet+rylais+botrk kennen.
Megalo
ia plays
Megalo
ia plays
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Rush either
or
after or before 
Force all ins. Respect their range otherwise. Another thing you can do is use decimate heavily push the wave and have them choose between poking or farming perfectly.
gives more kill pressure.
Also Stormraiders is better then Grasp because most likely you will be unable to trade with them frequently enough to use it.
[{quoted}](name=Goon Platoon,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=y73Ah9or,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-11-03T16:32:38.677+0000)
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gives more kill pressure. Also Stormraiders is better then Grasp because most likely you will be unable to trade with them frequently enough to use it.
gives a lot of kill potential. It also scales way better than ignite. In fact, unless youre facing vlad or something, ignite is probably one of the shittiest scaling summoners in the game. You have to take more than just early game into account. Besides, mobility is always kill pressure, and flash is mobility.
Also I usually run SoTA regardless of matchup, but SoTA is especially good in ranged matchups because unless if you are all ining youre usually just doing your best to safely farm and scale up to those ultimate powerspikes 6, 11, 16.
[{quoted}](name=Goon Platoon,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=y73Ah9or,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-11-03T16:32:38.677+0000)
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gives more kill pressure. Also Stormraiders is better then Grasp because most likely you will be unable to trade with them frequently enough to use it.
Yet you have to trade with the enemy to even proc storm raider's... What?!
You don't trade with it. You go in with the intent to proc it and go for the kill.
[{quoted}](name=Goon Platoon,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=y73Ah9or,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2016-11-03T19:11:15.321+0000)
You don't trade with it. You go in with the intent to proc it and go for the kill.
You still have to hit the enemy champion with your AA or abilities to proc just like Grasp. Hence you have to trade to get use out of it. What you said doesn't make sense. You are predicating that storm raiders is more viable because you can't trade with Grasp yet both are used only in trades with other champions so your argument is flawed.
You are implying that you would actually trade with a ranged champion with Darius which makes no sense. You will almost always lose a trade with a ranged champion simply because they are able to outrange you and usually have better DPS/health regen via lifesteal.
As Darius you wait until they mess up and you take advantage of that using stormraiders to keep pace with them (most of the top ranged champs have self peel do you need the slow resistance and extra movement speed).
Grasp does not provide that and it's better when you are actually trading because you are slowly getting a health advantage over your opponent.
In laymans terms, you use Stomraiders to 100 to 0 them quickly because you can't "trade" with your ranged opponent. Once you go in you don't stop until they die or burn something to get away.
[{quoted}](name=Goon Platoon,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=y73Ah9or,comment-id=000300000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-03T19:33:58.477+0000)
You are implying that you would actually trade with a ranged champion with Darius which makes no sense. You will almost always lose a trade with a ranged champion simply because they are able to outrange you and usually have better DPS.
As Darius you wait until they mess up and you take advantage of that using stormraiders to keep pace with them (most of the top ranged champs have self peel do you need the slow resistance and extra movement speed.
Grasp does not provide that and it's better when you are actually trading because you are slowly getting a health advantage over your opponent.
In laymans terms, you use Stomraiders to 100 to 0 them quickly because you can't "trade" with your ranged opponent. Once you go in you don't stop until they die or burn something to get away.
OMG! I am not arguing about the way one is used over the other I am saying you have to damage the enemy champion to proc Storm Raiders same as Grasp... I really don't know how much more clear I can make this. I'm not arguing over the alacrity by which you choose Storm over Grasp just that you must do basically the same thing to proc them IE: Trade, hit, ability, engage on or what ever other word you want the enemy champion to proc the effect....
[{quoted}](name=Lazarus Blade,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=y73Ah9or,comment-id=0003000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-03T19:36:36.377+0000)
OMG! I am not arguing about the way one is used over the other I am saying you have to damage the enemy champion to proc Storm Raiders same as Grasp... I really don't know how much more clear I can make this. I'm not arguing over the alacrity by which you choose Storm over Grasp just that you must do basically the same thing to proc them IE: Trade, hit, ability, engage on or what ever other word you want the enemy champion to proc the effect....
You're Stawmaning, no one was arguing about having to do damage to proc both. The original argument that you tired to refute was that:
"As Darius you wait until they mess up and you take advantage of that using stormraiders to keep pace with them (most of the top ranged champs have self peel do you need the slow resistance and extra movement speed).
Grasp does not provide that and it's better when you are actually trading because you are slowly getting a health advantage over your opponent.
In laymans terms, you use Stomraiders to 100 to 0 them quickly because you can't "trade" with your ranged opponent. Once you go in you don't stop until they die or burn something to get away."
Also I sense you might attempt to strawman this. Stormraiders is good for SOME matchups. It's completely situational and things like Ignite vs Flash and SoTA vs Grasp or Fervor are the persons pref.
Don't believe me? Look up True Noxian Might the Challenger Darius otp. I get 99% of my pointers from him.
Yes, you have to trade with them, but it doesn't require an auto attack to land. In theory you can trigger it with bleed and Qs.
Yes, you have to trade with them, but it doesn't require an auto attack to land. In theory you can trigger it with bleed and Qs.
That just further proves my point! Just b/c one is proc'ed via AA and the other can be proc'ed either way doesn't change the way they get proc'ed in the first place. What are we arguing about here? It's a fact, a representation of information that is unchanging, that both Storm Raiders and Grasp must be used vs an enemy champion, not a minion, not a monster not a Trump and not a Clinton but a freaking enemy champion to be proc'ed and therefore useful. Arguing that Grasp isn't useful over Storm Raiders because Grasp required you to trade with the enemy lane opponent is the pot calling the kettle black! Seriously is reading still a required curriculum in this country...?
I think this is what he's trying to argue:
You wouldn't be able to stay close enough constantly for the auto attack effect to be useful. Stormraider's also doesn't run on a time limit.
Stormraiders also provides the ability to stick to the opponent for a short time, whereas grasp is bonus damage and healing, meaning if they could break away, stormraider's surge would be more useful than grasp.
It seems like more of a preference thing to me really, and reading isn't actually as simple as it seems since you need to think carefully about what they're saying.
I see what you mean, I'm just saying that the Grasp lifesteal and dmg isn't that great v.s an opponent who can just build their health up again and can beat you in a long sustained fights and trades. Against a ranged opponent like that I like to play passive as Darius until they slip up and kill them quickly using the extra damage in the cunning tree and better securing the kill with Stornraiders. I might not of elaborated this so if that's the case it's my bad. I should also note that that's v.s ADC top laners like Quinn, Vayne, Lucian etc. (Quinn tech. isn't an adc but has similarities). Champs like Gnar and Kennen are a whole other ball game per se.

Here you go buddy. Just walk over their hopes and dreams.
[{quoted}](name=Resonance x LFT,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=y73Ah9or,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-03T12:36:42.357+0000)
Here you go buddy. Just walk over their hopes and dreams.
is better, dead mans staggering blow is repetitive with crippling strike, randuins has a much better anti kite in the form of its active, it also gives way more in terms of combat stats.
I would think you can go both unless the enemy tean is heavy AP.
[{quoted}](name=Goon Platoon,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=y73Ah9or,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-11-03T19:48:52.539+0000)
I would think you can go both unless the enemy tean is heavy AP.
For me personally, it's one or the other.
My typical D man build nowadays is:
/

I wanted to ask you before, why DD?
[{quoted}](name=Goon Platoon,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=y73Ah9or,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-03T21:50:28.700+0000)
I wanted to ask you before, why DD?
It keeps me a relevant damage threat even without noxian might. The omniphysical vamp also empowers my Q healing and introduces healing to my AAs and W.
The noxian guillotine as well as the hemorrhage (bleed) scales off of bonus AD only, so steraks wouldn't make my dunk scarier. Steraks also only grants me equivalent AD to DD after I get chunked to hell and the shield goes off.
DD grants me an anti burst passive and the healing makes up for a lot of the health I otherwise would have had with an item like steraks, while also providing more potency because it's bonus AD.
Finally, unlike an item like steraks, DD completes the final 10% CDR in my build for a total of 40% cdr.
I run SoTA to make up for some of the HP loss, so I still usually end out at around 4k HP without elixir with this build while still retaining a scary 280-290 or so AD late game without noxian might.
Hmm never thought of the omniphysical vamp like that, I gotta try that out.
It is low key the second best offensive Darius item. I like picking this item into Teemo, and then proceeding to go 5/0 as I never leave lane except for more items.
[{quoted}](name=Resonance x LFT,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=y73Ah9or,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-03T12:36:42.357+0000)
Here you go buddy. Just walk over their hopes and dreams.

Whose?

*geeettttttt dunked on!!!
Btw I feel like a total jackass for discussing gameplay on a memes & games post where I literally said in my "Upvote of you find Yasuo mildly irritating" post that gameplay discussions belong in the gameplay section. I take my 4 mains/pocket picks too seriously for my own good sometimes.
I would post a meme of someone putting their hands out to be cuffed but I only found creepy bondage pictures :(
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/12/1215da664abc6c355953d3844d825f43216cb95e6d4c887d15c01ecb123b8a94.jpg
: "Darius? Problem?" Evil Laugh
Lol? Olaf has a very low winrate vs Darius
Really? Huh, I play him against Darius with great success, in fact he's my go to counter if I play against him.
All you gotta do vs ranged is to get stormraiders and lvl 1 cheese them. this forces their tp so you have lane preassure and for items rush Phage and a tier 2 boot and you are good to go. lul People tryna pick Vayne into my dunkmaster and end up 0-4 by 10mins
but what happens when they are good at ranged top lane and do the one thing you should never do when your a ranged top laner come into melee range