Taliyah, Struggles Against:

A Superb Villain·May 3, 2016·92 votes·5,819 views

http://i.imgur.com/XjpULpl.png

Who doesn't?

100 Comments

ViashinoWizardMay 4, 201630 votes

Chogath

Zed : "Alright, time to poke this guy down so I can-"

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/23/Carnivore.png

Zed : "Right, well, at least he'll have to choose between farming and harassing m-"

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/3/3b/Feral_Scream.png http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/7/79/Vorpal_Spikes.png

Zed : "Ow, okay, well now I'm level 6 so I can ult him and-"

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/3/38/Rupture.png

Zed : "Q_Q"

rtbf225618241May 4, 20164 votes

Honestly, i think once Cho misses his silence, there's nothing he can do against Zed's poke.

ViashinoWizardMay 4, 20161 votes

If Cho misses his silence he has done something horribly wrong. It acquires targets as soon as the cast starts, so Zed gets hit even if he shadows out before the animation finishes.

rtbf225618241May 4, 20162 votes

It's instantaneous but it doesn't make baiting it out impossible.

ViashinoWizardMay 4, 20161 votes

True. Still, Cho should generally be at or near full HP from his passive, so as long as he doesn't over-commit into a bad position he can just passively farm and out-sustain Zed's poke. And once Cho hits 6, he starts getting increasingly tankier from his ult, making it even more difficult for Zed to kill him.

rtbf225618241May 4, 20161 votes

Unless Zed is not an idiot and farms instead of poking early. It takes a missed Q or W to be outmatched by Zed's damage at lvl 6 when he ults.

ViashinoWizardMay 4, 20162 votes

Cho'gath gets a guaranteed Q on Zed when he ults. Cho'gath has the advantage in both harass and farm. It's entirely possible for Zed to win the match-up, but he's still at a significant disadvantage.

rtbf225618241May 4, 20161 votes

A guaranteed Q? I said if he misses one of his abilities (Not counting E it's more of a passive).

If he tries to hit Q from afar and misses Zed can go in. If he misses silence, sure Cho can hit Q but Zed does a lot more damage than Cho considering he has an easier time hitting such a large champion.

In my opinion, it's a pretty equal matchup unless one of them is fed so they would cancel each other out in that case.

ViashinoWizardMay 4, 20162 votes

Cho'gath doesn't need to fish for Q against Zed in lane. He can just harass with W and E while farming. It's much easier for Cho to land W than it is for Zed to land Q unless Zed is staying outside of W range, in which case he's missing a lot of farm. Zed can only win the lane by outplaying Cho at all times: any time a damage trade goes evenly, Cho still wins because he has massive innate sustain while Zed has none. This gets even worse once Cho buys Catalyst/hits level 6, as his tankiness and sustain increase even further.

The lane isn't and auto-loss for Zed, but it is heavily favored against him if the Cho'Gath knows how to play the match-up.

rtbf225618241May 4, 20161 votes

Why do you think his E even does anything considering it only works if the minion is at a good angle and the Zed is (again) dumb enough to go for melee farm. Farming from a range is pretty easy with him.

And i'm not talking about some Master I Cho'Gath, i'm pretty sure he will fish for Q sometimes and miss from which Zed could take an advantage from.

Cho's sustain comes from his measly passive that gives him 20 - 71 hp from kills and structures.

Considering how broken Zed's itemization is, he would outscale with AD alone.

Not to mention Drakhtarr.

ViashinoWizardMay 5, 20162 votes

Because I know from a lot of first-hand experience with the match-up that it does. E's hitbox is deceptively large, and Zed will be in range to get hit by it occasionally unless he's only farming with Q, in which case he's missing out on farm. No matter how good Zed's itemization is, he has to be farming evenly with Cho for that to matter, and the reality is that he can only do so by being close to the minion wave where Cho'Gath can abuse him.

The harass from the occasional E and W and the sustain from Cho's passive might look small, but in reality it adds up quickly. At level 1, that's a free 120 HP per minion wave, 140 if there's a siege minion- almost an entire health potion. Meanwhile, every time Zed gets grazed by Vorpal Spikes that's another bit of free damage he only has his base HP regen and finite supply of HP pots to deal with on top of the big chunk he loses whenever he eats a Feral Scream.

If Cho gets hit by every Q from Zed then yes, he'll lose, but that's because he was playing badly, not because he doesn't have the advantage in the matchup. A decent Cho player won't try to land Q when they know Zed has W. Instead, they'll either wait until after he's already used his W or cast it while he's silenced by Feral Scream.

rtbf225618241May 5, 20161 votes

That E is nowhere near enough range to hit Zed especially when Zed and Cho are both moving around to not get hit with random stuff and not lose farm.

I already said, against Cho, Zed shouldn't try to trade as he will outsustain but will not survive Zed's burst once he makes a mistake.

Feral Scream is easy to bait out, too easy almost..

Cho is like one of the biggest Champions in the game assuming he'll chug down minions as he hits 6 so i want to see him dodging everything when he's cosplaying Godzilla.

Also, wait for what? After Zed uses W, he normally doesn't even approach the enemy to not get snared by some ability or ganked from that.

ViashinoWizardMay 5, 20161 votes

E covers a lot of space, especially when positioned correctly. The only way Zed can be guaranteed out of its range is by losing farm. Additionally, it's not as though Cho has to tag Zed with E all or even most of the times he auto attacks: even if its only 15% of the time, that's still free damage that adds up quickly for a champion like Zed who lacks health sustain.

As an ability that, for all intents and purposes, hits near-instantly, Feral Scream is far from easy to bait out if both players are of similar skill level.

Cho can survive Zed's burst easily because he will usually be at or near full health due to his passive and the fact Zed can't afford to trade with him.

Despite the size of Cho's hitbox, Zed's Q is not an impossibly difficult to dodge skillshot if you're paying attention.

All of your arguments are based on the assumption that the Zed is constantly outplaying the Cho'Gath. That's how Zed wins the match up. It doesn't change the fact the he's at a disadvantage, because he needs to work harder than the Cho'Gath and has less room for error. Zed statistically does worse against Cho'Gath than against most other mid laners.

ViashinoWizardMay 5, 20161 votes

W's delay doesn't matter, because as soon as the cast starts, if Zed was in the highlighted area, he will take damage from it even if he's well away when the actual animation plays. I don't claim to be a particularly good or even above-average player, but I don't get my W baited out easily.

I do play mid lane. I'm familiar with the match-up because I've played it many times. You say I'm ignoring the numbers, and yet the actual statistics show that Cho'Gath is favored. You're trying to argue a point based entirely on theorycrafting despite admitting you don't have any experience actually laning as Cho or against Zed.

Maximum ZileanMay 3, 201622 votes

Lissandra

XeroKimoMay 4, 201616 votes

And starting tomorrow

Annie - Dies while tibbers up? Bruh prepare for your ass to get whopped. Also 18-40% dmg reduction for 2.5 or so seconds

Malzahar - 90% dmg reduction and immune to cc for 1.5 additional seconds after getting hit UMADBRUH!?!

Troll for TrumpMay 4, 20164 votes

RIP item 3140

WheatloafMay 4, 20162 votes

If you've managed to force him to rush QSS first or second item, that's already a small victory.

ShadragonMay 4, 20162 votes

A good Malzahar already destroyed Zed anyway. All it took was proper passive management. Now that his old passive is an active? Zed 0/6/0 DeTHninja98(Zed): gg this jungle no ganks

SonaTitsAndAssMay 3, 201618 votes

Kayle trollface

blueberrypancakeMay 5, 20161 votes

I loved this in season 4, single handedly got me to Silver 2 in my first year

Wukong X AhriMay 3, 201618 votes

http://pa1.narvii.com/5782/d8db9c263d77751db505bdb9de6fdc53ef403d03_hq.gif Banish the shadows

AckelopeMay 4, 20161 votes

what is the name of that website? I visited it once, many years ago, but I can never remember the url... FeelsBadMan

HeadHonchkrowMay 4, 20162 votes

http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/ IN THE NAME OF DEMACIA

Tentacle LoveMay 3, 201616 votes

Malzahar : "Zed, there are things even darker than your shadows."

Vistha KaiMay 4, 20165 votes

Like space AIDS.

bloodmothMay 5, 20161 votes

Huh, i guess aids won the space race, who knew?

WutsKrakenMay 4, 20169 votes

Zed HAH A jungler as a midlaner? What a freakin idiot

http://orig02.deviantart.net/07f4/f/2014/080/7/8/zed_vs_nocturne_by_racoonwolf-d7b4gon.jpg

http://orig08.deviantart.net/53be/f/2015/161/7/8/zed_vs_nocturne___league_of_legends_by_selutinistar-d8wsfpd.jpg

0/5 Zed Ah...crap

Handin Out NapsMay 4, 20164 votes

I had to play against a nocturne mid as Zed for my first time in ranked. I firstblooded him but then I soon realized why nocturne counters zed so hard. That damn spell shield. Nocturne is actually a ridiculous Zed counter with very good roaming and assassination power.

ku ni chi waMay 3, 20165 votes

Fizz Annie Chogath Ahri Malzahar Lissandra Ekko Bard Kayle Jax Shen in late Game Orianna she over dmg him in all ways. Zed got no counters nooooo OFC....

Sum Wun SpeshalMay 3, 201617 votes

Shen Jax Bard Chogath

really? a bunch of champions that don't even go mid?

I have some others then

Alistar Aatrox Amumu Blitzcrank Braum Darius DrMundo Elise Fiddlesticks Galio Garen Gragas Hecarim Hecarim Irelia Janna

Fuck it, I won't even name them all.

AstôlfoMay 4, 201616 votes

Because the midlaner always has to be a typical midlaner-type champion? Or, you know, if you really hate Zed that much, you could just pick one of those champs and take them mid if you know enemy mid is Zed. lol

KnalxzMay 4, 20164 votes

Most of the time it hurts the rest of your team choosing a champion in an out of a meta position.

The sheer idea that you must pull a champion out of their zone just to be able to fight another because they dominate a certain field and must be counter picked by exotics is terrible for a game's health.

Imagine if an ADC got so out of control in power that you need to play an assassin bot just to stay alive if you didn't pick them. Of course ADC' and supports would be livid for being forced into the DMR or Die meta like in Halo 4.

AstôlfoMay 4, 20162 votes

Um. An assassin bot to counter an ADC really would only work /maybe/ post-6, because most assassins are melee-range on their AAs. So any half-decent ADC would just kite around and consistently poke. Not to mention, bot lane means there is also a support, who could interrupt the assassin's attempts at assassination. Soo... I sort of get the kind of point you were trying to make, but the analogy you used was just bad.

And uh, champions have no specific zones that they must be played in. They're just better in some roles than others, obviously, given their stats/kit/etc. And how would it hurt the team to choose off-meta if said specific off-meta counters whatever champ you're trying to go against and can do it quite well? I mean, the vast majority, if not every single one of the champs you've listed, can deny the assassin in their own lane pretty much entirely through laning phase, and still contribute a great deal in actual teamfights/rest of the game, while still being able to deny the assassin.

Sooooo... What are you even trying to say? Your points make no sense.

KnalxzMay 5, 20161 votes

You have me confused with someone else, I didn't list any champions I just said putting another in an unintended position could isn't conceptually right and shows incompetence in the devs prowess.

Also the point I was trying to make is that on it's own it's silly to HAVE to draw a champion out of their safe zone to fight another.

We shouldn't have to play an Assassin bot to counter an ADC nor should we have to us none mid laners to fight a mid laner.

That's the point I was trying to make. Champions should be designed with their competition in mind, without that you'd just end up with those champions who just go into a different role I.E. old Morg and Swain who were both meant to be mid laners but just got shut out because everyone did what they did but better.

If you end up having to play Vi mid to stop Zed then that alone is a problem. You're basically taking using a line backer as your wide receiver.

AstôlfoMay 5, 20162 votes

Uh, and I'm saying the point you're trying to make is invalid. Sure, you can beat Zed with just about any midlaner, I'm saying it's tough for some matchups obviously. But if people are just going to whine and bitch and moan about the matchup, and completely ignore the fact that you can take any other non-midlaner that completely halts Zed to said midlane, then that's just stupid.

And no, that's not a problem. Sure, Vi mid isn't conventional. I guess you could say it's a line backer as wide receiver although that analogy is also flawed because no champion is limited to any specific role, they're just better at some. But. If you're playing Vi mid to stop Zed, I assume you know what you're doing with Vi and how to counter Zed with said matchup. So, you'd still stomp on the enemy midlaner. And it's not like Vi suddenly becomes useless past laning phase. So I don't have the slightest clue what point you're trying to make.

KnalxzMay 5, 20161 votes

Yes you do how could you doubt it what I say if you have no clue what I'm saying?

You've just invalidated everything you just said with that last statement. WTF!

So since you don't understand what I'm saying it's that there isn't a reason a mid laner shouldn't be able to fight Zed. If A mid laner is screwed just at the sight of him, then there's a problem. Regardless of if they are a counter at X point in the game if he's so powerful that they are near useless then there isn't a point.

I understand you're trying to protect a champion you enjoy but what kind of thought process is it to have no sympathy for others? Zed either goes even or destroys his fellow laners. Everyone who "counters" him don't really since Zed's and however else all have the same issue fighting those champions.

Regardless Wukong will always jump on and wack you, Vi will always punch and smash you and you will always have to bait out Kayle's ultimate. It's not much of a counter if regardless of who you are they still do what they do.

But I bet you're just going to ignore this and go on about how you do but don't understand what I'm saying. This will end up being pointless I guess so why even bother trying to convince something that doesn't or care to be convinced.

AstôlfoMay 5, 20161 votes

Uh, no, a midlaner is not just screwed at the sight of Zed. And nor is Zed so powerful he makes just about everyone else near useless.

And I'm not trying to protect him just because he's flashy and fun to play, I agree he's a problem too. What I don't agree with is people like you making completely ridiculous statements out of salt or dislike or whatever other reason. Nice assumptions/exaggerations there though.

But if you're so certain I will ignore you and supposedly "go on about how I do" without understanding what you're saying (which, is nothing actually of meaningfulness), then why bother replying? [zombie-brand-facepalm]

At least try to be somewhat intelligent when complaining, will ya?

KnalxzMay 6, 20161 votes

You clearly don't think Zed is a problem you're just lying to yourself. If you thought he was a problem then you'd know that you shouldn't have to bring someone whose not a mid laner to fight him.

You still haven't explained why that makes sense to you. Not every champion can or should be played in X roll just for the sake of a counter.

I refuse to believe that you are so stupid that such a thing is inconceivable to you.

You shouldn't have or get rerecorded to play a non mid laner to counter a mid laner or any other roles.

You say he's a problem but then you make an argument of how he's fine because you can beat him with non mid laners. How aware are you of how crazy that sounds?

You're basically saying He's OP but only when not fighting mid laners.

THAT'S A PROBLEM! He makes an entire lane irreverent because of his power, you've even agreed but at the same time disagreed with this. I don't know if you're unaware of what you're saying or if you are just fucking with me here but you seriously, need to read what you type because it sounds like your mouth is full of your own ass at times point.

AstôlfoMay 6, 20161 votes

Um, I'm not saying he's fine. I'm saying people complaining about him are overexaggerating some things. And why shouldn't counters be played if you know how to play said counter, and can counter said enemy champ because you know how to play the matchup?

And no, that's not what I'm saying. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though. You really sound intelligent right now.

Nice continual usage of ad hom though. It really supplements your shitty argument nicely. They go hand in hand.

KnalxzMay 6, 20161 votes

My argument is Zed is a problem you agree so that means you're just as wrong. Again, check what you say.

Nothing I've said has exaggerated anything about Zed. He's a problem with only a hand full of champions who're all incredibly niche and likely never to be seen in a fight with Zed or broken in some way.

AstôlfoMay 6, 20161 votes

Ugh.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

TonyTonyMordecaiMay 4, 20165 votes

Hey vi and cho can go mid!

AstôlfoMay 4, 20164 votes

Of course not, what heresy! Assassins are totally this uncounterable super invincible instant 0.000001 second 5000 damage nuke super-safe champ that have no counters, counter-items, or counterplay!