What a dick move. Oh, sorry, don't sue me.
Also, did she REALLY write down every time her colleagues used the word "dick" in conversation? 500 times? ... Really?
What a weird thing to put in a suit.
https://i.imgur.com/fnMc42w.png
Bonus meme:
https://i.imgur.com/Ef2CFND.png
Actually putting fart jokes in a lawsuit
AugustHeatHaze13 votesyou conveniently ignored the part on page 7, point p.
Glaricion11 voteshttps://www.scribd.com/document/392530487/Complaint#from_embed Page 7 for anyone that wants to see it, would probably get banned for posting it directly due to its nature.
I knew from the original news article that the workplace environment at Riot was bad, but holy hell... Also, not just the rank and file and a few team leads, but also a co-founder and a VP?
I am so glad to have lived a life where I am genuinely surprised and disgusted whenever I hear that people actually think this sort of behaviour is fine and actual ATTACK the victims.
GripaAviara11 votesBad how? Half I'm reading here is bullsh . I don't how USA is, but it seems women in your country are way too easily offended. Look, I'm not saying it's ok in the majority of cases here, but definitely not that bad to sue. Just move on and go to another company if this one is full of "dicks", all 500 of them and away from the "bro culture" (like wtf??)
And it's all illuminated down: "Ms X was in the process of being promoted [...] senior leadership". Then she lost the promotion. It happens, a lot. Even to "males". Looks like bhurt , if the things where that bad and insuportable within the company she wouldn't be so close to a so high position
Gall14 votesI am so glad to have lived a life where I am genuinely surprised and disgusted whenever I hear that people actually think this sort of behaviour is fine and actual ATTACK the victims.
1). You're putting yourself in a position higher than others. Braggart statements make you seem like more of a prick than a good person. 2). I'm not discrediting other portions of the suit. I'm just poking fun at some of the more trivial things that are put in there to fill in space. 3). Innocent until proven guilty. Don't want to get into politics with this one.. but there was a lot of coverage of a recent Justice being sworn in.. 4). I don't condone sexual misconduct. Especially page 7, point p. Very few would if this is a true statement. 5). In our current climate, suits are thrown against everyone and half of them are rubbish. We don't know definitively if this has much merit to it other than personal anecdotes. Many are tired of seeing such wrongs, whether than be wrongful accusations or wrongful actions against women. Because of this, humor is a nice way to cope with either of such wrongs.
I'm not discrediting your position, and I didn't downvote you. I just felt the need to explain the reasoning for humor.
Glaricion2 votes1). You're putting yourself in a position higher than others. Braggart statements make you seem like more of a prick than a good person. 2). I'm not discrediting other portions of the suit. I'm just poking fun at some of the more trivial things that are put in there to fill in space. 3). Innocent until proven guilty. Don't want to get into politics with this one.. but there was a lot of coverage of a recent Justice being sworn in.. 4). I don't condone sexual misconduct. Especially page 7, point p. Very few would if this is a true statement. 5). In our current climate, suits are thrown against everyone and half of them are rubbish. We don't know definitively if this has much merit to it other than personal anecdotes. Many are tired of seeing such wrongs, whether than be wrongful accusations or wrongful actions against women. Because of this, humor is a nice way to cope with either of such wrongs.
I'm not discrediting your position, and I didn't downvote you. I just felt the need to explain the reasoning for humor.
Pyro, it seems as though my comment is coming off to you WAY different than I had intended. I am wondering if you wouldn't mind helping me with my writing for future reference?
On 1, how did I come off as bragging? Being okay with more sexually explicit conduct in the workplace seems class-neutral. On a values level, it seems like a neutral "prudes" vs "bros" thing. Am I missing something?
Lv60 Retri Pala7 votesI am so glad to have lived a life where I am genuinely surprised and disgusted whenever I hear that people actually think this sort of behaviour is fine and actual ATTACK the victims.
Ok Chantalle, calm down, no one is attacking the victims here and no one is saying raping someone is ok.
Jerry SeinfeId21 votesNoone here is attacking victims.
If people use the word Dick 500 times that's not attacking anyone that's just padding your lawsuit with petty bullshit that takes away from actual problems.
See how noone is making fun of the "drugged and raped" part? When i read that i have mixed feelings. On one side i'd love to support this lady against the rapist if true. But the fact that she brings up petty things like people using the word bitch and pussy makes me see her as an idiot.
no reasonable person thinks these women have no case to be made. Most of us are just sick of all the bullshit that shouldn't be a part of it.
The Goodest Boy6 votesyour apparent considerations as to whether or not to believe her become a bit null when you mention thinking her an idiot because she mentioned how many times the word bitch was used. the entire point of this massive, extensive list of allegations towards the male employees is to communicate in-depth the atmosphere and "bro" culture that allegedly exists within Riot as a company. things that would by themselves be insignificant and childish (using the word 'dicks,' making fart jokes, pretending to jack off) are included to cement the narrative.
by themselves, many things on the list would be (in my opinion) absolutely fine. but they were all lumped in together for a reason. it would be idiotic to ignore the extremely serious charges brought up here just because you think some of the points are mute. sending around emails talking about which employee is the most fuckable, allowing rapists to keep their jobs, keeping running lists of who is the sexiest, speaking over mostly female employees, and making obscene jokes and gestures despite being asked not to all add up to a very damning conclusion.
some of these allegations are easily verifiable, mind you. emails can be brought up and company records obtained; and I'm sure they either will be or already have been. in the end it isn't up to us to believe or verify the claims of these women, but I think it is our job not to nitpick and slander what are objectively very serious allegations.
im not flaming you, but just try to be a bit more conscious about what you choose to give credence.
(and on a personal note: I dont think "no doesnt always mean no" qualifies as a harmless joke. if the company slogan were "rape is hilarious" that would be far less acceptable, dont you think?)
Jerry SeinfeId7 votesNah, idiots are people too. Obviously this lady is perfectly capable of taking care of herself in her daily life and getting a job. I could worded this better but that's what it comes down to. You wanna be taken serious then only talk about things that are actually serious. Don't bring up your petty bullshit cuz you don't like the word pussy (which still refers to a scared person or even a cat and not just the female genitals). And you can wrap it in whatever "to paint a narrative" package you want, it's still bullshit under that shiny wrapper.
it would be idiotic to ignore the extremely serious charges brought up here just because you think some of the points are mute.
That's my whole point. Putting in all these things that are perfectly fine and don't actually affect anyone outside the conversation in there takes away from the actual problems. People will see those things included and brand her as just another sjw or whatever the fuck.
if i'm talking to ma man george for example and i make a dick joke, that doesn't affect elaine one bit. She has nothing to do with that conversation. If she listened to my private conversation and gets offended, that's her problem. You can't expect a group to accomodate you and only you. There's gonna be shit you like they don't like and vice versa. Some of my friends love fart jokes for example, so i let em do that shit in their house. But in my house you don't. You can ask them to stop, they might, they might not. But nowhere have i read anything about them being asked to stop.
People might talk about who they think looks cute/hot/sexy or whatever. It's normal, and again not limited to guys. Is keeping a list between dudes about it sad? yeah, it's absolutely pathetic and most guys won't even agree on a list. "Easy fuck" lists are messed up and idk what kinda "bros" you gotta be to be down for that one either.
IF true, having a rapist working for you is something else. The dude is an asshole and shouldn't be working there. This ACTUALLY AFFECTED SOMEONE. There is an actual serious victim here. Not just someone who wants to be a victim.
I stand by my comments about the "no doesn't always mean no" joke and comparing it to "rape is hilarious" is simply ridiculous. The joke works by comparing 2 situations. When trying to have sex with someone regardless of their gender no means no, in hiring someone it doesn't.
The Goodest Boy6 votesAnd you can wrap it in whatever "to paint a narrative" package you want, it's still bullshit under that shiny wrapper.
thats the point of their lawsuit, though. to expose the sexist climate and practices of the company as a whole. so they're trying to put down every instance of that they can.
People might talk about who they think looks cute/hot/sexy or whatever. It's normal, and again not limited to guys. Is keeping a list between dudes about it sad? yeah, it's absolutely pathetic and most guys won't even agree on a list.
you're right, I think most people at least have a mental ""list"" of what friends they would smash given the chance. i think thats fairly normal, as its just personal opinion yknow? but thats taken to a much more serious level when you start making an 'official company list' of the hottest female employees and forwarding it around the office regularly (which they allege on page 6, point 15: subsections a. and b.) and describing how you would penetrate her.
like... gross. thats horrible.
anyways.
if i'm talking to ma man george for example and i make a dick joke, that doesn't affect elaine one bit. She has nothing to do with that conversation. If she listened to my private conversation and gets offended, that's her problem. You can't expect a group to accomodate you and only you. There's gonna be shit you like they don't like and vice versa. Some of my friends love fart jokes for example, so i let em do that shit in their house. But in my house you don't. You can ask them to stop, they might, they might not. But nowhere have i read anything about them being asked to stop.
I was going to go through and make my own remarks and counterpoints here, but I feel like at that point we would be doing what you're saying the defendant should stop doing.
i'd like to leave you with this scenario: say you've been assaulted by a knife-wielding man on the street at night. he leaves a nasty gash on your arm, roughs you up, and makes off with your purse or wallet that has your important stuff in it. you'd probably want to file a report with the police, right? lets say you do; and they request a report of the crime committed.
imagine that before he started slashing at you and beating you up, he was throwing a barrage of insults and cuss words at you (any youd like to imagine.) being really really explicit. you'd probably include that in the report, right? youd say "before he slashed at me and beat me senseless, he was screaming profanities at me." on it's own, thats not really a huge thing to be upset about. you get insults hurled at you all the time on the internet, and even at some jobs.
but you'd still include it because it was related to the crime, right? maybe, maybe not. but the thing is that you wouldn't have your legitimacy questioned because you 'included something that wasn't even important" in your report.
in the end it isn't up to us anyway, i just get a bit upset at people not taking things like this seriously
Pillar Of SaIt2 votes[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=Vy0ZzAJX,comment-id=000100000003,timestamp=2018-11-07T13:36:26.524+0000)
But the fact that she brings up petty things like people using the word bitch and pussy makes me see her as an idiot.
For real
Most people who frequently use those words had them in their diction long before they even knew what they meant
e.g. I frequently call people %%%%s without any gender-related context or intent whatsoever. The amount of times I use that word on a daily basis could make you think my parents are Australian
Packun Flower6 votesHoly crap. I read that whole thing and there is some pretty hardcore alegations there.
A sex hit list where women are put on a list for men to sleep with.
One alegation states a higher up drugged and raped a female employee then fired her the next day.
Yikes.
Lv60 Retri Pala10 votesDon't forget the "mansplaining", these darn mainsplainers should be hung by the neck I say!!!1
Busty Demoness2 votesHey, I've got a bunch of women guilty of mansplaining (defined as explaining something with a condescending tone).
What do you mean they aren't guilty?
Oleandervine7 votesIt's not just a fart joke though, that line means that someone actually farted and then made a joke about it, in a public workplace. So let's call it like it is.
Granted, I don't think farting and laughing constitutes as a hostile work environment, it's just stupid, uncouth behavior. The lawyers should have done a better job at pruning the actual written lawsuit so it looks more reasonable.
The other part of the lawsuit that I think doesn't help is where it states that the plantiffs were required to play the game online, where they ended up getting harassed by other players outside of the company. Like, you work for an internet game company. It's not an absurd notion that you should be required to play and understand the product you help produce. And furthermore, the actions of people outside of the company have no business being used in conjunction with the lawsuit. That's just people on the internet, and that's the risk of using the internet. I consider encountering bad people online as part of the grind, and if it's that bad and you have to potentially experience it daily, mute everyone and be done with it.
Overall, there are strong points in this lawsuit, but it's peppered with some things that I think drag it down. I think it needed more revisions before becoming public.
The Goodest Boy6 votesan excellent nitpick. you seem to have accidentally read over the other, massively more serious charges and allegations. nice try though
Limrick6 votesHe's just highlighting how silly these minor things look. Especially next to the far more serious allegations that are in the same lawsuit.
FilDaFunk5 votesAfter the first 500 is a good time to start counting.
hewhodoesnotcare3 votesDick
DrCyanide2 votes500+ times in a one month period. 4 weeks in a month * 5 working days a week = 20 days. 500 / 20 = 25 times a day.
I could see up to 5 times a day happening in reasonable conversation, but 25? In a work environment? No wonder she started counting.
Lv60 Retri Pala2 votes500+ times in a one month period. 4 weeks in a month * 5 working days a week = 20 days. 500 / 20 = 25 times a day.
I could see up to 5 times a day happening in reasonable conversation, but 25? In a work environment? No wonder she started counting.
Maybe they havea few people working there whose name is Dick?
DrCyanide6 votes[{quoted}](name=Lv60 Retri Pala,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=Vy0ZzAJX,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-11-07T15:43:44.857+0000)
Maybe they havea few people working there whose name is Dick?
Well, according to the Social Security Administration, Dick hasn't been in the top 1000 most popular names since 1968.
I'm going to guess that it's not a common last name either, which would rule out people who's parents gave them a first name of "Suckmy" or "Yoursucha" or "Stopbeinga".
Stars Shaper2 votesIsn't that used as a diminutive of Richard too?
Shiki Ryougi1 votesWhere do they work? Depending on what position is being filled the context could change drastically. For example, those numbers could easily be skewed by people could be reading choice selections of chatlogs that resulted in players being punished for verbal abuse. I'm finding it hard to take the lawsuit seriously in the first place when included in it is a complaint about the fact that Rioters are expected to actually play video games. This sounds incredibly like a people who joined a company that they wanted nothing to do with but a paycheck and then are complaining that the company doesn't match them. I'm withholding judgement on more serious charges because serious charges require serious evidence. But logical inconsistencies shine through on their on merits.
AirKingNeo2 votesYou're conveniently ignoring the fucking concept that EVERYONE knows the thing such as 'being called a dick' and that, if you're suing a company, YOU'D USE SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MEANS SOMETHING.
Therefore, if you believe the party suing Riot Games has common sense, you'll realize that they're citing things such as men talking about their donger.
Need Gold 4 Tent2 votesDick x500 over how many people and how long? Actually sounds pretty darn mild to me.
Eleshakai2 votesWhat's weird is the number of RIDICULOUS things they padded that lawsuit with, as if it would help their case.
Stick to the things that are actually serious. Someone calling someone a dick is not a legal matter. Nor is a fart joke.
Sugardemon1 votesI'm pretty sure I say dick and act like I'm jacking off in public at least 500 times a day
The Anivia OTP1 votesbefore you were born you could choose two classes :
-Male :
Need female to have a child
Weakpoint exposed
x3.5 being killed or someone try to kill you
x2 being attacked in general
x1.8 being robbed
x1.8 killing yourself
shorter lifespan
expected to die before others
judged for not being a "True man"
Have to destroy any genetic leftover(you know what i mean) to not be charged money if used by someone else.
-female :
both women and mens have other malus and bonus , but those are the most occurring. remember , i based myself on facts , and stopped there. i'm not judging
EpicSoap1 votesLook, whether or not you want to admit it these things, if sexual in nature, can be harassment. Just because it's fine for you doesn't mean it's fine for everybody, male or female.
Gall2 votesLook, whether or not you want to admit it these things, if sexual in nature, can be harassment. Just because it's fine for you doesn't mean it's fine for everybody, male or female.
Farting isn't sexual in nature. Using the word dick isn't sexual in most cases. Otherwise we should police calling each other dicks or pussies. In addition, using the word suck is also sexual, since saying "you suck" or "this sucks" refers to something or someone sucking a penis, but I'd gamble that 95% of use the word suck, so that sucks.
Some stuff in the suit is awful (IF TRUE. INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.), but policing language like dick is a dick move.
HalfTangible2 votes"Farting isn't sexual in nature."
Not that I disagree, but I recall a Goblin Slayer meme that goes like this:
Anime fan artists (dead eyes): "You get used to it." New Artists: shocked face 'It': "Could you draw her farting?"
C men Demon1 votesWhere is the proof of any of this. It's just people spewing bullshit without any actual facts to back it up.