When I hear someone say "Ivern Sucks"

The Aqualious·Oct 9, 2016·28 votes·4,810 views

http://lolproduct.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/grumpy-tree-get-off-my-lawn.jpg?w=614

Realize there's a learning curve people!

67 Comments

JayHog1992Oct 9, 201612 votes

I can't believe that people would flame about Ivern. I'm Stumped!

The AqualiousOct 9, 20162 votes

Shut up Satin

:-p

JayHog1992Oct 9, 20163 votes

https://i.imgflip.com/1c1ly3.jpg

The AqualiousOct 9, 20162 votes

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/016/712/eyeless_jack.jpg

Oh Satin...

:-p

JayHog1992Oct 9, 20162 votes

Quit it now.

ZarvanisOct 9, 20169 votes

But satin is a cool cloth. http://i.imgur.com/e3YTR7k.jpg?noredirect

JayHog1992Oct 9, 20161 votes

Gives a sigh.

The AqualiousOct 10, 20161 votes

We tease you cause we care

JayHog1992Oct 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

We tease you cause we care

The AqualiousOct 9, 20161 votes

Fine

5000000000000000Oct 10, 20162 votes

Fine cloth, indeed

SoundChaosDebugOct 9, 20165 votes

He's just underwhelming damage wise, so if you're team is bad then you won't be able to carry the game himself.

The AqualiousOct 9, 20169 votes

He has tons of cc though, and with his ultimate, you can perma cc someone

And he just has a lot to offer in general

StephenizgodOct 9, 20161 votes

I think what they meant was, its like having a Janna on your team. She offers a ton of utility and survive-ability, but if your team doesn't know how to take advantage of that, she is not super useful as far as impacting the game goes. Ivern is similar, if your team doesn't know how to take advantage of his incredible utility, he isn't going to be useful.... and if you have Janna AND Ivern, well good luck lol

5000000000000000Oct 10, 20162 votes

I think a more accurate comparison would be Bard.

StephenizgodOct 10, 20161 votes

No actually I think Janna is more accurate, Bard has the ability to disrupt or hinder the enemy teams ability to take objectives. Janna at best only slightly annoys them while they are doing it. Bard does bring a lot more to the table then Janna as far as his ability as a Solo champion. Whereas Janna is probably the best at what she does, she is also a lot easier to use and harder to deal with at lower elos.

V The Support VOct 17, 20161 votes

Discussing the release of the champ. Not the actual champ.

StephenizgodOct 17, 20161 votes

No, I am pretty sure he was talking about the actual champ. If he wasn't than his comment wasn't relevant to what I was talking about, because I was not talking about release, i was talking about the actual champ.

King Fury Oct 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He has tons of cc though, and with his ultimate, you can perma cc someone

And he just has a lot to offer in general

Hem... no.

SiytherOct 9, 20165 votes

he is a support. Bringing utility instead of dps. his shield and ulti are great though and that snare is beast. Sure if your team sucks it will be a long game lol. This dude is going to own the jungle in LCS next season

My Waifu VanillaOct 9, 20161 votes

until any competent player just kills him in his jungle since he actually takes the most damage out of every jungler in the game and can't fight anyone before like level 6 (and is level 1 for forever).

Jet SettOct 10, 20162 votes

Ah yes, lack of vision in your own jungle coupled with teammates who don't converge make it very hard, but if the enemy jungler is in YOUR jungle you go to theirs, not to mention Ivern's first clear can't be beat, he WILL be lvl 2 immediately and if the enemy jg tries to stop him they're gonna have a lot more to worry about because Ivern's utility scales harder than most enemies do.

TheHurricaneGamrOct 9, 20164 votes

So sad that he is treeted like this.

The AqualiousOct 10, 20161 votes

It leafs me with great dispair

TheHurricaneGamrOct 11, 20161 votes

Doesn't address the root of the problem.

The AqualiousOct 11, 20161 votes

We'll have to Branch out to find it

TheHurricaneGamrOct 11, 20161 votes

This is just getting sappy.

The AqualiousOct 11, 20161 votes

I think it's pretty oaK-y

TheHurricaneGamrOct 11, 20161 votes

Wood you not?

The AqualiousOct 12, 20161 votes

Not until I succedar

TheHurricaneGamrOct 12, 20161 votes

I pine for a resolution to this altercation.

The AqualiousOct 12, 20161 votes

Well it's a birchden I intend to see through to the the end

TheHurricaneGamrOct 13, 20161 votes

Ok. I'm out of Tree puns.

KillstradoOct 13, 20162 votes

Maybe you should brush up on your dendrology

CatastropOct 9, 20163 votes

I think a big contributor to his suckiness is people building item 1402 , when item 1401 is just way better for him.

SpecterVonBarenOct 10, 20161 votes

It really depends on the matchup. If your entire team decided to pick nothing but glass cannons while the enemy team has someone to be their frontline whether it be a tank like Nautilus or a juggernaut like Darius then go for Cinderhulk, or if the enemy team has a lot of burst. if your team has other champs that can function on the frontline then it can be better to go for Runic Echoes for more movespeed and a bit of burst to give you a bit more punch in teamfights.

I think the bigger problem is people building shit like Protobelt or RoA on him, true blue AP carry items instead of more tanky items like item 3001 or more utility based items like item 3174 . Tank items are good for him but building a bit of AP from certain items is also very good for him.

Mad King HadesOct 9, 20162 votes

http://rsmg.pbsrc.com/albums/v738/LadyFire/Toy%20Box%20Items/tree-face.gif~c200

The AqualiousOct 9, 20162 votes

What's that?

Mad King HadesOct 9, 20162 votes

Nature http://rs633.pbsrc.com/albums/uu55/gardemenchu/817237e8.gif~c200

ZarvanisOct 9, 20163 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/26ufhl5HAsqsabAK4/giphy.gif?noredirect

TheAceInShadesOct 9, 20162 votes

I just can't believe he gets banned so often I mean seriously he is not strong enough for a ban.

The AqualiousOct 9, 20164 votes

The fear of the unknown, is one of the greatests

Golden Tager XOct 18, 20161 votes

The unknown is the source of all fears.

Vellich0rOct 10, 20162 votes

Right now, a good ivern can dominate a game with even somewhat competent allies. He has the best level 1 invade in the game bar none (even shaco) and after you get rod of ages (rush that after the smite item) he takes no damage clearing.

SpecterVonBarenOct 10, 20161 votes

Why are you rushing RoA.....

Vellich0rOct 10, 20161 votes

Health and mana so that you can clear without concern for either. AP for added damage and utility. Since none of the jungle items really fit iverns exact needs (he needs early health and mana badly with some form of sustain for both as well as AP for his ult, q, w, and e. Cinder hulk only provides the health and a wasted passive since he doesn't actually clear and doesn't want to get close. Runic echoes provides burst, which is virtually useless for ivern, and a wasted mana sustain passive since he literally can't use his abilities to proc the passive with monsters for the mana refund. Warrior and blood razor just go without saying) all ivern needs for the jungle is the exp component of the item, so getting that into roa gives you all the things you crave as an ivern with nothing wasted in suboptimal build paths or effects.

SpecterVonBarenOct 11, 20161 votes

Mana and mana regen is a waste on Ivern, outside of his first clear he doesn't have mana issues. If any jungle item fits him it would be Runic Echoes for the AP, burst and movespeed. As for health, taking SoA helps that out or if your team needs a tank then building Cinderhulk is fine too.

You say that you get RoA for the AP for more damage and then say burst is wasted on him. All RoA is is a stat stick which delays you from buying items that could give you more utility or tankiness. It just takes too long to finish and the mana component is a waste on him.

Vellich0rOct 16, 20161 votes

Damage and burst are two different things (technically speaking.) The AP is actually best for his shields and daisy resistances. Runic only gives you the burst passive, which is wasted, instead of the raw AP that he needs for his utility and for the bonus of some damage. He has awful first clear mana, and second clear is meh, but he needs the early health of RoA. Runic echoes gives a lot of wasted things. The mana refund is wasted because he can't use it, trading out raw AP for a poor mans luden proc is suboptimal as he doesn't operate on burst. The early health of RoA is fantastic because he is a supporty ap tank, and it even gives you mana AND health regen in teamfights. Cinderhulk seem good? Wrong. No mana, a poor mans sunfire that DOESNT EVEN GET FULL EFFECT (he can't use it in the jungle) and no raw AP, which means weaker shields, daisy, and you don't get the bonus damage. RoA gives everything runic and cinderhulk would give him when combined and then more with the health and mana regen passive.

SpecterVonBarenOct 16, 20161 votes

Stop listing off mana as some sort of plus, by the time you'd get even Catalyst your mana issues would be gone. Runic Echoes gives 60 AP which is quite fine for a support and the extra burst is valuable early game as it will make your ganks more likely to get a kill. The movespeed is also great for someone that will spend more time just moving around the map instead of actually fighting jungle monsters.

You're thinking about this like a mage player, not a support player which isn't surprising given that you never play support. As a support you don't get to always buy AP to make your abilities scale but that's fine because you have good bases and utility. Sure that Rabadons with its huge AP looks good in theory but in practice just because it would make my heals or shields stronger doesn't mean anything because my first job as a support is to help my team, not indulge in some kind of late game mage fantasy.

If my team needs a tank then I'll build tanky, if someone on my team is super fed then I will shadow them and keep them alive and build items to help them deal more damage. The support motto is to help your team and wasting time building an expensive mage item is time not spent helping your team. This is why I will buy Cinderhulk on him if the situation calls for me being the only durable person on my team because they're all selfish and just want to play glass cannons.

Also, Daisy has HORRIBLE resistance scaling, only 5% armor and MR with your AP meaning that at 500 or so AP you'd still only be getting 25 extra MR and armor which means jack all by the time you'd have that much AP. RoA is a luxury item and as someone that's used to scrimping by on little gold and having to take the bullet and build what my team needs rather than what I want, I'd much rather go for practical items instead of a stat stick.

Vellich0rOct 16, 20161 votes

Mana IS a plus. You don't have the worst mana problems late, but RoA is a top tier item for support tanks like IVERN who like some AP. The runic echoes burst passive is insignificant when compared to the value of 40 more RAW AP, a shit ton of health, mana and health regen passive that can actually be used by ivern, a solid tier of mana which is VERY useful, and all of this for a mere 2,700 gold. Runic echoes has a few passives, sure, but they aren't that great when half of them cant even be used and the other half are sort of meh for Ivern. AND you have failed to consider the fact that daisies health is +50% AP, and her attacks are +30% AP meaning raw AP is much better than 60 damage every 15 seconds or so (especially since you cant charge up the passive very quickly). I also play support fine, I just have my preferences to go elsewhere (I am a top lane tank most of the time.) I rarely play mages anymore, and neither of those things even have anything to do with my point. With runic, you are wasting gold, with RoA you are getting one of the most cost efficient items in the game which has literally everything Ivern would want and more.