While i was scheming through the season's resume i fell on jhin's resume little catch phrase. "Only champion who's sad about a pentakill."
It was funny indeed. But that also made me realise something very important..
...HOW IS IT THAT JHIN DOESN'T HAVE A QUADRAKILL VOICE LINE?! [sg-ahri-1] rito pls
RiotWAAARGHbobo43 votesWould be cool to add.
I can say why we didn't do it though. The On_EnemyChamp_Kill lines were brand new then and untested by our team. So we weren't entirely sure how/if they would work and more importantly how they would be received by players.
So we didn't want to compound our bug risk and player perception risk further (For example by having the potential- quadra kill line playing over the pentakill line, the standard kill line, and announcer- line- All playing together at the same time 1% of time-- AND we couldn't even be sure players wouldn't prefer the announcer alone vs Jhin's voice!)
Our VO system is a bit byzantine and hacky -esp at that time -- and Jhin was made very, very quickly (about 75% of the time a normal champ takes)-- so there was going to be less bug fix time for him. It was brought up as a cool idea-- but dropped because of the time/risk ≠ the perceived reward.
[sg-soraka]
ShadowParker4 votesWait, why was Jhin made so quickly?
Also, what would have been different/ would you guys liked to have spent more time on had he taken the whole time?
Infernape10 votesIIRC he just came together incredibly quickly. Riot ships out champs as soon as they're ready to be released. So if Riot was working on a champ in the same time frame as Zoe, they'd probably end up being released around the same time.
Skorch5 votesHey WAAARGHbobo, Why was Jhin made so quickly? He has a very flushed out kit and also had IMO one of the best teasers.
Aside from being my favorite champion in the game it is surprising he was made so... perfect in so little time.
Did all the pieces just fall into place or was there another reason he was made so fast?
RiotWAAARGHbobo8 votesWe had a hole in schedule for releases because Aurelion Sol got pushed back.
Jhin came out well, but he was stressful, and involved more drama than many champs-- also because the schedule we collapsed it meant I was working on three champs simultaneously-- not great for my personal homelife or stress level. (I exploded a couple times)
For example most champs we write about 250 to 300 lines for them. Jhin had over 600 recorded and about 800 written-- because I couldn't be sure about the final kit and animations. So-- I just wrote lots and lots to cover every base I could see us exploring. Then I and Kyle (sound designer) went through some long, rough days of cutting and figuring out what would work and where. It worked. But I can't help but feel he could have been even "more perfect."
--side note: I still miss the scary haiku's I wrote for him and we recorded-- but they didn't fit anywhere in his VO.
ChuShoe4 votesDo you think we could listen to the haiku's that were recorded but never put in? They sound super neat.
Quality Content1 votesGive us Jhin haikus ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Glory ln Death2 votesA proper "Jhin haiku" is properly referred to as a "Jhinku", and consists of four lines of four syllables each. The most perfect form uses four words in each line, and less perfect forms may contain four words per line with more than four syllables.
hoyohai1 votesEach word also must have four lett erss
Gear5Luffy2 votesyou cant drop that haiku bomb and not let us hear it or read it
Cbrainz1 votesI was working on three champs simultaneously
So close to perfection..
But yeah by working that hard it's only normal things like a quadrakill voice line got dumbed. Also i saw over the previous dev comment that Jhin were fully created in 75% of the time it takes to create a champ normally, and frankly speaking i find that to be amazing.
Jhin is to my eyes one of the best designed champ of the game. The story, the voice, the gameplay, everything is just really well done. And if ya'll were stressed to death while making him i can only say WELL PLAY MATE. Producing such a well designed champion under such stress almost feels like a miracle.
[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
No really, i mean that. Well done.
-> Also well done for kled. My lizard riding bandito is just as amazing as well lol. Ya'll are doing one hell of a job.
....BUT NERF LETHALITY YOU PIECES OF ùù^* [darius-angry]
Niyume4 votes... you teased Jhin for like five months, and you call that rushed? What in the world do you do at work all day?
One, single model does not take 5 months to make. Hell it wouldn't even take one month to make a good one - maybe a week or two at best. You've only got (at max) 4 abilities, so that would be relatively easy to do -- especially considering the basic movements the models do. And then when you consider how microscopic League is compared to other games that put out more content than you do... I really don't see the excuse, especially when you're pulling in billions a year.
Are you working on like 8 games at a time? I could see it taking a while then. But otherwise... I have to wonder at what the hell you do all day.
SpecterVonBaren10 votesYes, clearly all that's involved in making a game is making a 3D model.
Niyume2 votesCome up with an idea (no definite time frame)
Start a basic story and visual concept (no definite time frame)
Make abilities (a day or two, maybe)
Make a model (few days to a week MAX)
Animate abiliites (a day or two)
Add sound (a day or two)
Add voice (depending on actor availability, no definite time frame, but usually within a week)
Finish story (a day or two)
Release
Roughly in that order.
Does that add up to 5-8 months? Especially for reworks, which already have an established role and lore identity.
AgentBlack17 votesYou think they can make a functional kit in 1-2 days, just like that? And animate that kit in 1-2 days? And that all the sound design and voice recording takes just another 1-2 days? You are soooooo ignorant about these processes, it's actually crazy.
Niyume4 votesYou think they can't? You have ENTIRE TEAMS of people working on the champ. A lot of it is even done simultaneously.
They'll take old champs and throw the abilities on them and test them out while the model is being made (like, Kled was Gnar riding Hecarim for a while)
They usually bring in the VA while they're doing all the work on animations so the VA can take a guess at the tone and everything.
The sounds are usually made along with the animations.
The writer doesn't just sit there and pick their ass while everyone else is working.
And think about it: They're working full-time, 8 hour jobs. In college I was expected to make a fully functional model (of good quality) in two weeks when I had 1 hour classes.
And I also did intern work at Nintendo, and did a bit of work at other companies in the area. You know what they would tell me if I said I wanted to spend the ENTIRE summer making one model? I'd be laughed at, or fired on the spot.
hoyohai7 votesOk sure. Let's have you make a fully functioning champion that interacted appropriately with the other champions in the game in one month.
If you can everyone will believe you
underscores2226 votesOn the one hand, I totally agree that the champion creation process, as Riot currently does it, takes a significantly longer period of time than the estimates listed above (I believe the stated time frame is 6 months per champ).
On the other hand, I remember a time in league where a new champion was released almost every patch, and I am fairly sure that Riot was a smaller company then, with a presumably smaller champion creation group (though I'm sure they had more than one team creating champs).
Granted, some of those champs were notoriously broken upon release - but usually just numerically rather than technically (obvious exceptions exist, like Azir, though I do believe he came after the champ ramp was over with). It is also worth noting that champions were simpler then, with few of them adding new mechanics, effects, or technology to the game, so developing a kit was done in terms of what was already possible, not what would be cool to realize or expand on (Zoe has at least 2 new mechanics - sleep and walls adding length to skillshots. Not sure if re-casting pladdlestar counts)
So yes, Riot has shown that, in the past (with an arguably lower production value - fewer VO lines, very few new things, etc) a team can churn out a champion much faster than currently. I think it still took a team more than a few months to make a champ though.
hoyohai2 votesI suppose, but now since there's so many champions and they have to code interactions with each champion for every new champion, as well as coding interactions with the new champion for every other champion, I think it makes sense that it takes longer for each champion. Add that to the fact that each champion has to be different from each one before it and it ends up taking a long while
Glory ln Death5 votesThe reason they were able to pump out champions that fast is because they were basically doing things at the speed the other guy was talking about. However, they sacrificed a lot of quality and depth for that speed. Most of the champions released during that time were very simple and pretty similar within classes. Lots of basic dashes, empowered auto attacks, etc.
Nowadays, they take a lot more time in order to make champions more unique and cohesive all around. Each champion has a lot more depth, especially when it comes to how their kit, story, visuals, and VO combine to make them into a complete, cohesive character.
AgentBlack1 votesYou're an idiot and a liar. No way you interned at NINTENDO and have these kinds of misconceptions about game design. This is an entire career field you're blatantly insulting.
Niyume1 votesThe longest part of the process is just thinking through an idea and coming up with a solid design. It could take a couple weeks, or it could take a couple months. There's no set timeframe.
But, when you tease a champ, you already have their identity locked in, and you know what they're going to do. At this point it's all production (modeling, animating, sound design, etc.), and none of that takes several months to do. The only thing that could potentially take a long time is getting a VA in, since they can be pretty booked at times -- and then hiring a VA for other language regions too.
League is a very, very small game, and the models aren't really super high quality or anatomically correct (they're made in perspective, and in the cartoony, stylized thing League does), so animating and programming isn't going to be some monumental undertaking. And Riot has hundreds of people working full-time jobs with a multi-billion dollar profit. So if some little company like Square Enix can pump out new content in FFXIV every 3 months, and if Arena Net can constantly update Guild Wars 2, then I see no reason why League can't rework cancerous old champs in a month or two per -- well, actually, the reason is to build up hype so more people spend money, but hey.
Boobspawn2 votesThere are so many champions that were teased then COMPLETELY REWORKED into other things. Ao Shin, Cee Cee, Avasha, those are just to name a few. Square-Enix, is not a "small company" in any regards. They have so many people working for them, Square and Enix were both medium sized companies that when they merged became what they are today. ArenaNet is an extensive company that does not "constantly update" they do fixes and patches of various things over months.
Riot has multiple groups working on multiple things. they dont have 50 people working on each aspect. you evidently dont know anything yet claim to
KenBates4 votes"League is a very, very small game" should i say more
KenBates2 votesyou know what, just in case https://www.unrankedsmurfs.com/blog/players-2017
hoyohai1 votesThe small game of League has 138 champions which each have to interact with each other
LordofEntropy13 votes
Come up with an idea (no definite time frame)
Start a basic story and visual concept (no definite time frame)
Make abilities (a day or two, maybe)
Make a model (few days to a week MAX)
Animate abiliites (a day or two)
Add sound (a day or two)
Add voice (depending on actor availability, no definite time frame, but usually within a week)
Finish story (a day or two)
Release
Roughly in that order.
Does that add up to 5-8 months? Especially for reworks, which already have an established role and lore identity.
"Make abilities (a day or two, maybe)" LOL LOL LOL.
"Animate abiliites (a day or two)"
LOL LOL LOL.
You've obviously never done game design, animation, or really anything technical in software.
Baron Von Bangin12 votesReminds me of these kids at a summer camp I once worked at. They smashed all the windows on a cabin and when they got caught they had to do chores and stuff around the campsite. At night one of the counselors heard them discussing how unfair it was and how a new window would only cost like $10.
Typical children.
RiotAD Yuumi15 votes... you teased Jhin for like five months, and you call that rushed? What in the world do you do at work all day?
Well I personally prefer to level-up waifus in the various predatory phone games I play.
SpecterVonBaren2 votesYou wouldn't happen to be willing to, uh... share those games with us? cough For research purposes of course.
Cbrainz1 votesMah %%%%%h. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Mysticman895 votesAre multi-kill voice lines a thing even today? Jhin wasn't made that long ago, but you made a lot of references in the past tense regarding the state of kill lines.
If they're not, are special lines for multi-kills of various sizes something that might still be done in a future champ? It seems to me it'll be hard to ever know how players feel on announcer alone versus announcer+champ if all we ever have is announcer alone.
ChuShoe2 votesWould be cool to add.
I can say why we didn't do it though. The On_EnemyChamp_Kill lines were brand new then and untested by our team. So we weren't entirely sure how/if they would work and more importantly how they would be received by players.
So we didn't want to compound our bug risk and player perception risk further (For example by having the potential- quadra kill line playing over the pentakill line, the standard kill line, and announcer- line- All playing together at the same time 1% of time-- AND we couldn't even be sure players wouldn't prefer the announcer alone vs Jhin's voice!)
Our VO system is a bit byzantine and hacky -esp at that time -- and Jhin was made very, very quickly (about 75% of the time a normal champ takes)-- so there was going to be less bug fix time for him. It was brought up as a cool idea-- but dropped because of the time/risk ≠ the perceived reward.
[sg-soraka]
He could probably just scream "PERFECTION!"
Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votesIt's weird to hear a Rioter call their own system 'hacky'.
But I guess if even a Rioter sees it that way, it makes a little more sense why the skins team will foam at the mouth when people make any sort of custom content for League.
HalcyonDweller2 votesHey if you change something for Jhin, can you make it so that when he gets a penta, the announcer just says "Quadra Kill" again but more emphatically? I feel like this would be hilarious.
Or if it's not done to the champion, and if Riot decides to make announcer packs for players to buy, give us a Jhin announcer pack where he does this!
Edit: Please. Of course this is a request, I would not be so presumptuous as to demand this of you.
Cbrainz1 votesOH BOI YOU SO SMART MATE!!
Having the "Pentakill" anouncer rather become jhin who scream irnocally "quadrakill" again would be AMAZING XDD
That's such a good idea. But who knows how hard that would be to add into the game tho. But that's one hell of a great idea.
XDaAdriX1 votesHoly hell the guy who designed him needs to start back making champs to save us from Zoe (literal cancer), yall made Jhin in 75% of the time and it turned out with such perfection ;)
Cbrainz1 votesFeelsbadman, but as a maker of my own game yeah i can understand the danger of a "rushed champ" , you have no idea if it'll bug and since we're talking about league..
[slayer-jinx-unamused]
Yah. 1% of LoL players having jhin sweet voice would already be insane XD; I can understand it now.
But do you think one day maybe, our dear psychopath will get his quadrakill line? Will the church of the four finally find a voice update in that regard?
[sg-lux]
That be amazing.
XDaAdriX11 votesGenius it should be somthing like "Ahhh 4, never 5 always 4" (laughs) or "Run! while you have the time, (laughs) I don't want you dead. At least not yet"
Cbrainz6 votesOr maybe something along the lines of "I have achieved Perfection! ... But it's still not enough!"
That could be cool.
4 Step Cadence8 votesAs a Jhin main, I can confirm that getting a Penta with him is soul-crushing. A voice line would save me the trouble of yelling 'Perfection!' in all chat as well.
Cbrainz7 votes100% agreed. Spare us typing those words rito.
Spread the good word, let the church of the four raise up to rito headquarters.
LA Losty7 votesWas about to upvote but realise that would put you on 13. I support the idea but the balance must be maintained no matter the cost.
Jinx Hunter7 votesGood luck with riot making that. We will more then likely get more Yi skins and Annie skins. [zombie-nunu-bummed]
Velzard of Koz8 votesNot that adding one voice line would disrupt skin making teams, but don't pretend he'd be somehow ignored by skin teams when he got 3 skins in one year.
Cbrainz6 votesDon't let yer dreams be dreams. One day maybe, We'll get our quadra kill voiceline.
Still, i would have thought it would be natural for jhin. Even more knowing recent champs all have quadrakill / pentakill voice lines.
[zombie-brand-clap]
VoraciousX7 votesBefore reading I thought you actually meant a Quadrakill skin line, like the band Pentakill, lol.
Cbrainz6 votesQuadrakill is beauty, pentakill is brutality.
#QuadrakillRockBandNao
