"I hate Assassins/Dynamic Q/Riot"

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=1WewE6Jg,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-17T07:33:42.984+0000)

5s also had the worst matchmaking known to mankind. Yeah the queue times were not TERRIBLE, but when you are almost guaranteed as a team to place bronze/silver no matter what you are individually you can face sketchy stuff. Last season I had a team of mostly mid gold place bronze (despite going 4-1) and we went against a team that was half diamond on....a bronze team. People say matchmaking now is bad, but somehow think 5's was better was just someone that never played ranked 5's.

A HUGE portion of ranked 5s' issues came from the fact that not enough people played it.

Also the fact that it should be at least 25, maybe even up to 50 games, before a team can be placed. There are 5 times as many factors determining MMR and performance relative to that, so just using win/loss over 5 games is obviously going to give results inconsistent with player MMR.

Use players' total solo MMR divided by 5 to determine starting MMR for Dynamic, as opposed to starting at 1200 for your team.

I never said the old 5s were better. My point was that if ranked 5s were set up properly and they got enough people to utilize the queue, it would work out just as smoothly as normals or solo ranked always have.

Yes, Ranked 5s before had lots of things going against it, but dynamic queue and the current ranked system both address a good portion of those..

Doing something the wrong way is not an excuse to say its bad.

Its like if you go to knit a sweater and just end up with a mess of yarn. It doesn't mean knitting is bad, it means you need to learn to do it right, and that's something Riot refuses to do, even as a part of their balance paradigm.

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=1WewE6Jg,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-17T17:54:58.270+0000)

What soloQ? there is no soloQ right now. Second," tanks are not meant to do damage, but do actually do quite a bit of damage right now " is exactly the point I'm trying to make. There is no reason a tank should be taking chunks out of a health bar aside from a few special cases ( Ult, W).

DynQ then. Whatever. Exactly, that's why Tanks are extremely strong right now. Tanks can deal a lot of damage and still be considered tanks. And no, this is not the point you were trying to make. You said that it was a possibility to simply ignore tanks - which is not true as they deal a lot of damage.

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=1WewE6Jg,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-17T17:54:58.270+0000)

Just because pros tell you something doesn't mean it's law. There is a reason people hate when others try to copy the pros. Pros and Streamers are just as prone to bias and anyone else. you hear just as many people say it's still the juggernaut meta and plenty more people who say it's the marksmen meta. Hell, I've heard Assassin mains say it's an assassin meta right now since they are able to kill ADC's so easily.

So basically, you are saying that you don't care about the opinion of professional players and high elo streamers? Do you really think that they are biased and thus take suboptimal choices? Have you ever tried Sunfire+Gauntlet? It's effective and easy to pull off. I've provided you with source of several independent proplayers who said that it's a tank meta and that tanks are OP. Source me some relevant assassin main saying that (note: random boards dude is not relevant).

I do agree with waiting on the mage update though, I was just using that as a point to why the class updates are not necessarily class buffs. Honestly there were too many changes to the items to know exactly what they will do and we don't even know if mages will receive a global stat buff yet.

Well all the class updates we've seen have been global buffs so far. That being said, updates are of course not about buffing champion but rather about differentiating the champions within one class and giving them meaningfull itemization options. As I explained assassins are lacking in both departments.

Juggernauts are a tanky subclass of fighter, not subclass of tank http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion/Champion_Attributes

Thanks, that's a great link - I stand corrected.

Also, if you are referring to me saying " there is no reason to pick a juggernaut over a tank" as me saying "juggernaut = tank" then you are mistaken. I'm stating they both fill the same role of damage sponge in teamfights, not that they are the difference. the major difference is that Juggernauts are MADE to deal damage since they are fighters while Tanks are not. Tanks should be able to cc the enemy, preventing them to get close to the damage dealing squishies while being able to take hits when they get focused on.

Uh you said that there is no reason to pick a tank over a Juggernaut - or is that a misunderstanding? Also, you said that Tanks that deal damage are basically Juggernauts. That's not true as they have CC and engage options that Juggernauts can't have - per the definition you provided.

what kind of nerfs? like the nerfs to to the point no one wants to ever build it and gets a huge price reduction that still doesn't make people use it? Should sunfire cape only give 30 armor while it's passive only activates every 25 seconds?
Should they give all offensive items armor/magic pen so tank items offer no protection whatsoever? The problem isn't the items, the problem is the champs who build tank items while not being tanks. If anything should be nerfed, it's items that offer damage and protection cause those are the best of both worlds for a non-tank.

Thornmail is quite the popular item right now (source) that still has a decent winrate. Thornmail is in a really good spot, no reason to complain. I really suggest you take a look at what people build at high elo/in professional. Simply sheeping doesn't make sense as some things don't work well in low elo/unorganized play (eg Azir) but FOTM champions that are simple are usually OP. And everything that builds Sunfire+Gauntlet is FOTM.

You have to be kidding about Riven, she is fine as she always has been (her low win rate is cause of her skill cap). If anything she needs a resource put on her so she can't spam abilities the whole match (which would mean she'd get a considerable buff to her base stats to compensate).

Oh please. How can I take you serious when you say that Riven is fine? Riven mains who have more than 125 games played on her have a 52% winrate. Everyone below that is <50%. Most simple toplaners have a 50% winrate for beginners. Experienced players have a 54% winrate + on most other champions. Many Riven OTPs stopped playing Riven and play something else instead (that doesn't mean they suck - they clearly deserve mastery/challenger as they manage to hold their rating with other toplaners, it's just that Riven is bad on low Elo, high Elo, unskilled players and skilled players). Even LORD MASTER KING (KR challenger who hit rank 1 several times) practically stopped playing Riven.

I can agree with Akali since she really doesn't fit with the game atm. As for Ekko, That is a simple matter of making it more important for him to build AP over building tanky, which can be done with some nerfs/buffs in the right areas of his kit. With the AP nerfs to the mage items, that might not even be an issue soon as he will need to build more AP to compensate.

You could do it with basically any champion that is melee and has Mana.

I'm not saying the don't need help ( ... nuf said) But they don't need to be the next project riot spends half a year working on. If Riot handled the class updates like the Relaunches (where they have a few being worked on at once. I.E. how 's conception was almost finished by the time was released) and we could more than 2 class updates a year, by all means let the assassins go next, it wouldn't be to long till the next update anyway. But there is only one more spot available this year, making the one after that arrive around this time next year. I just don't believe assassins are suffering enough that they should take that spot.

So which class suffers more? The support champions all have their niche and are basically all viable (Taric is getting a rework, Zyra is getting looked at soon aswell) and their items suck, granted. I don't know what bruisers are suffering so hard, care to explain?