From a designer's perspective, why isn't Gragas considered unbalanced?

d3mon s t r·3/22/2014, 12:58:28 AM·3 votes·934 views

Noting from the lee sin thread, several fair points about lee sin were detailed about why he was getting balanced, and why his kit offered way too much for free.
Gragas:

-Free Health and Mana sustain in lane

-Free damage reduction from W

-Free AD from W to automatically make his E significantly stronger

-Free mobility/gap closer/lvl2nuke from his E.

-High AOE burst damage from Q;;; I hate this aspect the most of his kit. He can clear a backwave of minions for free at lvl 5 Q, and with some solid items he is easily capable of clearing the whole wave (and body slamming to finish it if he missed some)

-Speaking of which, HIGH waveclear/pushing potential

-Great farmer

-Strong all phases of laning, despite melee due to the threat of his QE combo

-High burst damage late game, still high scalings allowing him to QR 1 shot AOE the ADC or support, AT ZERO RISK TO HIS POSITION.

-Good sieging, and engaging ability due to his utility of his ult

-Good siege defense with those same abilities, especially the utility of his ult

-Hard/impossible to dodge correctly placed barrels, and discern its AOE radius by merely looking at the ability

-His mana/CDs are not punishing to his kit at all; With a little CDR reduction, W is always up, (you can EW to only pause moving for a brief moment), low CD Q E, and R so he's not a "Burst and I'm done" in a teamfight like Veigar

-Miss your skillshots isn't as punishing because of the 40% attack speed reduction from your Q, so in extended fights you have excellent survivability from youre QW passive combo.

-Dodging a barrel creates a small area gragas outzones you from. Dodging his body slam lets him position a Q that you can't dodge. Dodging his ult by sheer mechanics is physically impossible for most mobility-less champs.

-Is in the upperhalf of champion's movement speeds.

-13th Highest HP5 in the game (Pretending his 2% max health passive doesn't exist)

-A safe blind first pick. There is nobody that gragas is afraid of in lane, or as a jungle.

-Overall not fun to play against. Trade in lane? Free HP while he's trading, and farming. Dodge his skills? He'll get mana and just do it again (He still heals, so you still lose the "trade"). You get behind at all? Outzoned for the rest of the game unless your jungler can help (but his lane pressure ensures his jungler to beat yours if he decides to fight, since he's already a strong laner).

Please, I just want to understand why gragas is being ignored by everyone, including the community. He has a strong laning phase, a strong seiging ability, a strong burst ability, a strong AOE in team fights, strong late-game(despite the ult ratio tweaking), and strong zoning. I don't know, it feels like he has so much going for him yet Ziggs and LeBlanc are always the targeted hatred.

Edit; Sorry for the post, I read Solcrushed post about the Gragas rework, I apologize and appreciate gragas isn't being ignored.

11 Comments

Porkcchop3/22/2014, 2:20:28 AM3 votes

Honestly, looking at just a champs kit isn't a great way to judge them. Darius has incredible stats, and his abilities looks extremely powerful.

However, he isn't that great in-game.

Sir ArmaMalum3/22/2014, 1:04:45 AM2 votes

He isn't being ignored, both him and Kassadin got 'band-aid' fixes (nerfs) last patch to bring them a bit better in line while they were working on an actual fix. Kassadin got his turn this patch. He's not being ignored, it's just they're not going to change him too much again until the re-work/re-tune comes in.

tl;dr they're working on it be patient

ModCaptainMårvelous3/22/2014, 3:45:40 AM1 votes

Except he's getting a rework on the PBE.

Lord Graves III3/22/2014, 4:42:11 PM1 votes

He is. They just aren't sure how to nerf him without gutting him. And since they don't like to eve/olaf champions anymore, they are just gonna rework him.

Jingerbeardman3/23/2014, 7:10:34 PM1 votes

to answer your question... he is unbalanced. Which is why he is currently looking at a near future rework.