[Champion Discussion] Teach Me How to Nidalee

MrBuffington·Jul 20, 2014·2 votes·386 views

Hey Everyone

So, Nidalee has long been one of my favorite champions. She's probably among the most flexible champions as far as builds go, able to be built as both an AD Bruiser or an AP Poke Mage/Assassin and perform spectacularly in both roles. She could probably honestly play all five roles on the team with decent success if she wanted (though I haven't seen much ADC Nidalee, my guess is that she'd play a lot like Quinn). I've always played Nidalee as an AP Poke/Assassin, though, with recent popularity in AD Bruiser Nidalee following the rework, I'm starting to wonder if the rework did to Nidalee what it did to Gragas; push them out of mid lane into top lane. Basically, I'm asking a few things;

Is AP Nidalee mid still viable, or did she take too much of a hit from the rework? I think a large factor that pushed Gragas out of mid lane was the fact that his Barrel Roll didn't do quite enough damage, not to mention his close range ability got buffed with his %HP damage on W. Nidalee likewise saw nerfs to her Javelin Toss damage, as well her melee ability being buffed with her improved Cougar Form.
For champions like Tristana and Kog'Maw, who have high AP ratios, they are able to excel also at ADC because of their great attack range. For a champion like Nidalee, who has all AP ratios, not to mention all magic damage besides her autos, what are the advantages of building her as an AD Bruiser?
What is your opinion on AP Bruiser Nidalee (ie. Trinity Force -> Nashor's Tooth instead of BotRK. You lose the lifesteal, but gain greater sustain through your Primal Surge due to the increased AP. Also thoughts on spellvamp on Nidalee? Both her Qs and her Bushwhack are single target, at the same time Spell Vamp isn't the greatest stat in the game)

Thanks!

15 Comments

WorgslargJul 20, 20141 votes

I love her as an ap assassin, but i get better results going triforce> BT> randuins.

I feel that she is unviable in midlane due to troubles laning against assassins/mages.

I have not tried much of an ap bruiser build on her yet, but it's on my list.

MrBuffingtonJul 20, 20141 votes

I'm confused as to why you build BloodThirster on Nidalee; she has no AD ratios?

Could you elaborate on her difficulties in mid lane? I actually think she has a very strong laning phase, the only drawback being she doesn't have any ranged waveclear. In terms of dueling though, I think she's incredibly powerful.

Thanks for your response!

WorgslargJul 20, 20142 votes

I'm confused as to why you build BloodThirster on Nidalee; she has no AD ratios?

Her cougar form q deals up to 250% ad based upon missing health.

add a 33% bonus on hunted targets, and a triforce to that, you get some insane burst at 2 items.

Takedown's ad ratio is the only thing that makes ad nidalee viable instead of an ap bruiser build.

I have tried her as AP nid top, and while fun, I felt that I had a much harder time ramping up to deal damage, and you didnt have enough survivability.

My thoughts on her in the mid lane are that she is completely outclassed when facing other assassins. She must leap through hoops to land the hunt on the enemy, all to gain her enhanced pounce and takedown for a quick trade.

To compare, all fizz has to do is rush onto you, and leap away before you can react, Katarina hits her dagger and then shunpo's to you for extra damage, et cetera.

In toplane, she has a nightmarish kit by maxing her E first. Just auto them with spears, then run into brush to drop creep aggro, rinse and repeat. land a spear at level 3 and the enemy suddenly has less health.

It is exactly every melee's nightmare

MrBuffingtonJul 20, 20141 votes

Now that I look at her wiki page again, her AP ratios aren't exactly fantastic (not bad, but the only one that really justifies building huge amounts of AP is her spear). I'm wondering whether it's more efficient to build BotRK for the extra AA damage, or just build damage like BT or IE (I was also thinking ER, due to her high mana costs on maxed E). Looking at Probuilds, most NA pros build BotRK, but Expression over in Korea builds BT (Expression also maxes Q first)

I only have two rune pages, so do you think I should prioritize AD/ArmorPen or AP/MagicPen? I feel like the AD would help a lot, but because all her spells do magic damage, magic pen may be better.

I think you're right; most other mid lane assassins are better at forcing engages. This makes me really sad.

EDIT: I was wondering also what you would pick a AD Nidalee into (she seems more like a split pusher, sort of like Jax)

WorgslargJul 21, 20141 votes

Now that I look at her wiki page again, her AP ratios aren't exactly fantastic (not bad, but the only one that really justifies building huge amounts of AP is her spear). I'm wondering whether it's more efficient to build BotRK for the extra AA damage, or just build damage like BT or IE (I was also thinking ER, due to her high mana costs on maxed E). Looking at Probuilds, most NA pros build BotRK, but Expression over in Korea builds BT (Expression also maxes Q first)

I only have two rune pages, so do you think I should prioritize AD/ArmorPen or AP/MagicPen? I feel like the AD would help a lot, but because all her spells do magic damage, magic pen may be better.

I think you're right; most other mid lane assassins are better at forcing engages. This makes me really sad.

EDIT: I was wondering also what you would pick a AD Nidalee into (she seems more like a split pusher, sort of like Jax)

I have thought about trying essence reaver, but never gotten around to it. Botrk seems nice, but she seems to gain more off of the ad from a bt, and the shield that goes with it.

I'd say go AD/ magic pen.

I'd pick ad nidalee with a strong tanky jungler/support, as you miss out on a very tanky toplaner, and against non ap tops. She seems to work best when she can harass the enemy freely, and ap tops like ryze/kayle/swain can outpoke her.

She works very well with a pick/splitpush teamcomp, as in my experience you are very vulnerable in the middle of a teamfight. Her mobility is insanely high, use it as an advantage.

She is weak against tops with a silence ( garen and chogath) as her damage is ability depentant. The thing to beware of is that many glass cannon tops( riven/yasuo/tryndamere) have trouble dealing with your poke, but have stronger all-ins

MrBuffingtonJul 21, 20141 votes

Cool, thanks! I tried AD Nid in a bot game earlier (was jungling, but was still similar), went for elder lizard -> Triforce -> ER. I actually won the game before I could try out ER, so the jury is still out on that, but I had a lot of fun with just Elder Lizard + Triforce + BFSword, her Takedown does a ton of damage. I'll probably have to learn how to split push first before playing Nid though, I'll probably take Gragas into top more often for now. Thanks again!

LittleBlastJul 20, 20141 votes

Nidalee mid hasnt been good since the first rework, actually for a while. Nidalee works well where she can hide her traps, and can get 1 trap for a ward. I havent even dont nid mid since the rework because I know its bad. Also, I just go full ap. Mabye a bit of defenses, but nidalee is a hard counter to so many tops atm. Ex anyone without a reliable gap closer.

MrBuffingtonJul 20, 20141 votes

You play AP Nid Top? Maybe I should try that, thanks

LittleBlastJul 23, 20141 votes

Ap nid top works very well, yes. You have great early harass, and you spear, w-e-q-w for massive poke and lane dominance. And the thing is, it does much higher consistent burst, with your high burst combo up about every 5 seconds. And with the addition to an ap scaling on q, get lichbane first item and your dealing so much more dmg than an ad nid with your q.

MrBuffingtonJul 23, 20141 votes

do you have a build you usually go for? I was thinking trinity force into nashor's tooth, then tank items for a more bruiser build, but I'm not sure

LittleBlastJul 24, 20141 votes

Double farie charm into chalice, then get lichbane, after that athenes, rabadons, any boots, zhonyas, and last item is whatever you want. This build works extremley well vs just about any top laner, with a few exceptions. Max Q-E-W, take w lvl 1, than if your being poked e lvl 2, if you wany more ranged poke q lvl 2. Just remember that you will need a tank jungle or support

MrBuffingtonJul 24, 20141 votes

oh, so you go full AP, that's interesting, thanks!

LittleBlastJul 24, 20141 votes

Yes. Ive always hated ad nidalee, so my point may be a bit biased, but it honestly depends on your style of play what you like more.