[Concept] Changes to Nidalee's Pounce (W) and Javelin Toss (Q)

EpicSmurfAccount·Mar 31, 2014·1 votes·543 views

The context of the following changes is to reduce the overbearing poke coming from Nidalee without directly nerfing the skill. Players facing Nidalee should be rewarded for dodging Javelins. Nidalee players should be punished for not landing Javelins. Nidalee players who consistently land Javelins should not be punished.

Javelin Toss (Q)

Nidalee tosses her javelin, dealing 55/95/140/185/230 (+65% Ability Power) magic damage on impact. If Javelin Toss travels beyond Nidalee's basic attack range, it begins to gain damage, up to 137/237/350/462/575 (+163% Ability Power) (250% of the minimum) total damage at maximum range. Each time Javelin Toss does not connect with an Enemy Champion, Minion, or Neutral Monster Nidalee gains a stack of frustration. For each stack of frustration, the cost of Nidalee's next Javelin increases by 100% of the base mana cost up to 600% (5 Stacks. Each time Nidalee lands a Javelin on an Enemy Champion, she loses 2 stacks of frustration, and 1 stack for an Enemy Minion or Neutral Monster. Frustration returns to 0 stacks after 1 minute or when Nidalee recalls.

Pounce (W)

Nidalee lunges forward, dealing damage to surrounding enemies. Nidalee cannot use Pounce while she has 5 stacks of Frustration.

NOTE: Changes are written in bold text.

11 Comments

SitnoilMar 31, 20142 votes

I find it a bit harsh. I think just the 100% mana cost increase is enough to deny her.

EpicSmurfAccountApr 1, 20141 votes

Javelin toss has such a low mana cost though, and with a Tear/Seraph's and Athene's even at maximum stacks it would still be possible to throw spears but at a lower rate. 5 stacks is 300/360/420/480/540 mana. This is still much less than Kassadin.

SitnoilApr 4, 20142 votes

540 mana is way too much, she's not that OP, man... Like, anyone fed will do a lot of damage and feel OP.

EpicSmurfAccountApr 4, 20141 votes

For it to get to 540 mana means that you've missed 5 Javelins in a row. To not be punished for that much lack of skill is absurd.

MortalboykingApr 6, 20141 votes

What on earth are you talking about. Good players will dodge spears all day. It's one of the easiest skillshots to dodge, so unless the Nidalee you're playing against is Faker, it is more than fair that 1) if you get hit, you will be punished and you deserve it; 2) the Nidalee player doesn't have any drawback as this is her only safe source of damage, and its unreliability makes it so that if you're not good at it, you become basically a healbot for your teammates.

SitnoilApr 6, 20141 votes

Yeah I agree with Mortalboyking, this nerf is not necessary, it would make Nidalee an unviable champion for far too much mana cost. Her costs are already pretty brutal. She's one of the few mid laners that really need the blue buff before running out of mana. If you've played her, you'd understand.

Sure she throws a lot of spears, but what else do you want her to do? Throw traps and heal herself to land auto attacks on the enemy and expect a kill?

EpicSmurfAccountApr 7, 20142 votes

Put it this way - when Riot comes for Nidalee (and they will) they will go after her Q Damage. They will go after her Traps. They will go after her Cooldowns. They will go after her Heals.

Wouldn't you rather they went after her Mana Costs instead? At least these changes are conditional and not straight up nerfs.

SitnoilApr 7, 20141 votes

I just have difficulty seeing her as an overpowered champion. If anything, just increase the cooldown on the heal or the W in cougar form. Her spear is her only source of damage and it is a skill shot. You can't just remove that and expect her to perform. Once you get hit by a spear, you suddenly turn into a sidestep maniac and it becomes difficult for Nidalees to hit a second one on them. Her laning phase is pretty weak, also, meaning you could deny her there. This champion does deal high damage late game, but if you think about it, many others also : Veigar, Leblanc, Gragas, Orianna, Annie, Kassadin, etc can all remove someone from a team fight safely and instantly if out of position in one burst, whereas Nidalee needs at least two spears to land, from far, and it is a skill shot, meaning minions can block the spears.

Sadistic LozerMar 31, 20142 votes

I like this. I didn't even know she was THIS strong tbh, but damn, from what I've been hearing and seeing, i think this'd be a great change to find some sort of balance in Nidalee.

Nice job.

HalcyonDwellerApr 1, 20141 votes

This is hilarious XD This kinda just polarizes her play even more and accentuates the frustration that payers feel. Makes her less fun to play and doesn't do much to change how it works for people who play against her. She will cast spear a lot less, but people will still have a hard time in siege situations against her.

" Nidalee players who consistently land Javelins should not be punished." This is the abuse case where it IS toxic. Playing against a good Nidalee player is extremely frustrating. Your proposal would make her toxicity more akin to Lee Sin's high skill cap "what can't we do?" situation.

What do you guys think of making her spear have extra effects at different ranges in return for reducing its base damage?

For example: Impale if it is close range, slowing or snaring, and a grazing shot at long range, causing the enemy to bleed over time for bonus damage.

What are your thoughts on this?

SitnoilApr 7, 20141 votes

If nerfs ever get done on her damage, that is definitely a cool suggestion to offer for different play styles, but she most likely won't be a mid assassin anymore. Close range spear impale, do you mean that next skills will on the target will do more damage? Like, reduce their defenses or something?