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Voice? Why's it this way?

Gotei 13 Aizen··4 votes·1,138 views

Nobody needs an in-game voice program in League for their parties.

We have Discord for that.

The entire notion of putting voice into League to begin with is so that you can communicate with RANDOMS in your matches without having to stop and type or illustrate points outside of just pinging.

I'm sure someone is going to whine about "But someone could say something mean!" That's great, there are ways to handle that.

There can just be an option to disable voice chat altogether and you'll be playing just like the past 7 years or so.

You can have mute buttons for each player in case someone gets out of line.

But this is the one function it needs to serve, otherwise what was the point of implementing it at all?

62 Comments

Chermorg7 votes

So... Riot should implement a feature like Overwatch that would increase toxicity, be virtually impossible to police, and in a game like League would be basically expected to participate in lest you be blamed for a loss due to "he wasn't in voice chat so I couldn't scream at him"?

No thanks.

Many people can't run Discord at the same time as League - be it due to computer limitations or internet connection problems. In game voice chat limits the number of active connections that the computer is managing and thus may open it up to more people. Further, it's easier to just say "yo lemme talk to my friend" instead of having to switch to discord and set that up - unless you're playing a long time.

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

{quoted}

So... Riot should implement a feature like Overwatch that would increase toxicity, be virtually impossible to police, and in a game like League would be basically expected to participate in lest you be blamed for a loss due to "he wasn't in voice chat so I couldn't scream at him"?

No thanks.

Overwatch suffers from toxicity but they don't ban people who take hundreds of reports since they aren't looking them over, clearly. Riot if they implemented this properly would have audio logs and if a standard to putting in reports is to add a time when the toxic chat in voice started or if they put an in-game report option when there's problematic voice chat it would work out fine. Overwatch has an awful player behavior system in general.

Also who's getting banned in LoL for not participating in chat as is? The summoner's code doesn't change just because they added voice, the only change that needs to happen is to the report system.

Mig895 votes

{quoted}

Overwatch suffers from toxicity but they don't ban people who take hundreds of reports since they aren't looking them over, clearly. Riot if they implemented this properly would have audio logs and if a standard to putting in reports is to add a time when the toxic chat in voice started or if they put an in-game report option when there's problematic voice chat it would work out fine. Overwatch has an awful player behavior system in general.

Also who's getting banned in LoL for not participating in chat as is? The summoner's code doesn't change just because they added voice, the only change that needs to happen is to the report system.

They would be out of their minds recording every audio file from games. The sheer server space required for that would be nuts and maintaining it all would accumulate costs very quickly. If they did this you could expect low play rate champs to get even less skins, less work on RGMs, and other features would suffer. Businesses dont add cost without either cutting it elsewhere or the expectation that the cost will pay for itself in the future. With discord and other versions of voice chat theyre not going to bet on voice chat bringing in a ton of new players.

Chermorg4 votes

{quoted}

Overwatch suffers from toxicity but they don't ban people who take hundreds of reports since they aren't looking them over, clearly. Riot if they implemented this properly would have audio logs and if a standard to putting in reports is to add a time when the toxic chat in voice started or if they put an in-game report option when there's problematic voice chat it would work out fine. Overwatch has an awful player behavior system in general.

Also who's getting banned in LoL for not participating in chat as is? The summoner's code doesn't change just because they added voice, the only change that needs to happen is to the report system.

The issue is not that players would be banned for not participating in voice, but they'd be blamed by their teammates for not participating in voice.

Further, there is no reliable way to automate voice punishment. Thus all cases would have to be manually reviewed, and given the number of games per day is simply impossible to do, even with timestamps.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

{quoted}

So... Riot should implement a feature like Overwatch that would increase toxicity, be virtually impossible to police, and in a game like League would be basically expected to participate in lest you be blamed for a loss due to "he wasn't in voice chat so I couldn't scream at him"?

No thanks.

Many people can't run Discord at the same time as League - be it due to computer limitations or internet connection problems. In game voice chat limits the number of active connections that the computer is managing and thus may open it up to more people. Further, it's easier to just say "yo lemme talk to my friend" instead of having to switch to discord and set that up - unless you're playing a long time.

If they're not going to open it up for public games, they shouldn't have bothered to waste man-hours on it in the first place because it's the only reason to have implemented it.

If you don't run Discord and League at the same time there are other VOIP programs that focus primarily on low performance and bandwidth impact.

If you can't be mature enough to click a button to "battle toxicity," your opinion should not matter in the first place.

Busty Demoness4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-03-27T13:42:33.528+0000)

If they're not going to open it up for public games, they shouldn't have bothered to waste man-hours on it in the first place because it's the only reason to have implemented it.

If you don't run Discord and League at the same time there are other VOIP programs that focus primarily on low performance and bandwidth impact.

If you can't be mature enough to click a button to "battle toxicity," your opinion should not matter in the first place.

Riot isn't going to hire the manpower required to police thousands of hours of audio for in-game VOIP.

I'm not letting that backdoor window for toxic behavior to be opened up.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-27T13:57:00.768+0000)

Riot isn't going to hire the manpower required to police thousands of hours of audio for in-game VOIP.

I'm not letting that backdoor window for toxic behavior to be opened up.

So people can grow up. It doesn't need to be policed.

That's what mutes are for. It really is that simple.

Chermorg3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-27T13:59:56.494+0000)

So people can grow up. It doesn't need to be policed.

That's what mutes are for. It really is that simple.

I play League to enjoy League. I don't enjoy League when people are flaming me - be it in text, or voice.

Virtually all of the playerbase (minus the very small percentage of toxic players) agrees with me there. Riot is not going to add a feature that they won't police that would cause most of the playerbase to experience more toxicity.

As others say, your right to free speech does not have some magical overarching power over others rights to their liberties and the pursuit of happiness. Or in League, your desire to flame does not somehow trump the desire of everyone else to enjoy League without flame.

Busty Demoness4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-27T13:59:56.494+0000)

So people can grow up. It doesn't need to be policed.

That's what mutes are for. It really is that simple.

"A mute button is not an excuse for you to be toxic." - Riot

Growing up means you're mature enough to not be a raging asshole over something you can't control (teammates playing badly, for example). Voice cannot be policed (as has been explained) and I sure as hell get enough of the raging children (of all ages) when I play CoD. The only reason COD is more tolerable is because I'm not stuck with those kids for more than 10 minutes and I can leave with minimal penalty. I don't get either of those with League.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00000001000000000001,timestamp=2018-03-27T14:27:29.354+0000)

"A mute button is not an excuse for you to be toxic." - Riot

Growing up means you're mature enough to not be a raging asshole over something you can't control (teammates playing badly, for example). Voice cannot be policed (as has been explained) and I sure as hell get enough of the raging children (of all ages) when I play CoD. The only reason COD is more tolerable is because I'm not stuck with those kids for more than 10 minutes and I can leave with minimal penalty. I don't get either of those with League.

Growing up means you're mature enough to understand that people have outbursts when they're emotionally charged and being able to compromise and work through those issues.

Not to treat an entire populace like they're victims and orchestrate an entire socio-political movement to safeguard everyone on the planet against the potential risk of being exposed to bad manners.

League's community has been toxic since its inception.

It's remained toxic regardless of what you and people like you, including Riot, has pretended to achieve over the past 4 or 5 years of imposing on players for legitimately rational and human responses to bad situations.

So spare me with quotes from ANYONE working at Riot in regards to ethics or player behavior because they don't know what they're talking about and they're pretending that their left-leaning pseudo science has merit. It doesn't, not philosophically, not psychologically, not objectively, not scientifically, and certainly not practically as demonstrated by this little experiment they've had running that has produced absolutely no positive results whatsoever.

Busty Demoness2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-27T14:41:27.361+0000)

Growing up means you're mature enough to understand that people have outbursts when they're emotionally charged and being able to compromise and work through those issues.

Not to treat an entire populace like they're victims and orchestrate an entire socio-political movement to safeguard everyone on the planet against the potential risk of being exposed to bad manners.

League's community has been toxic since its inception.

It's remained toxic regardless of what you and people like you, including Riot, has pretended to achieve over the past 4 or 5 years of imposing on players for legitimately rational and human responses to bad situations.

So spare me with quotes from ANYONE working at Riot in regards to ethics or player behavior because they don't know what they're talking about and they're pretending that their left-leaning pseudo science has merit. It doesn't, not philosophical, not psychologically, not objectively, not scientifically, and certainly not practically as demonstrated by this little experiment they've had running that has produced absolutely no positive results whatsoever.

"It is your responsibility to mute anyone else who is being toxic, and not hold them accountable for being disruptive." - Your TLDR

You might have freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean you're free from consequences especially when it comes to misusing it. Riot has deemed that players who abuse their chat privileges will have them revoked, and permanently banned if they do not straighten up.

Is a gun at fault when it is used as a tool for cold-blooded murder? Because your logic suggests that it is the fault of the safety not being on when the gun is used for it. Chat, just like a gun, is a tool and just like any tool in existence it can be misused. If you think you have an undeniable right to use chat however you want, go ahead and test how long you can spam hate speech and "kys" in each game (without punishment) and tell us which games take the longest to punish you. Afterwards, go ahead and repeat the process with various local restaurants/retailers and see how long it is before you're arrested for disturbing the peace.

I'm not denying that regular outbursts are normal. And for those who have the rare outbursts that go over the line take their punishment and reform. Those who are consistently toxic, though, will not reform under "muh free speech". They will never learn until they're given a smite of permaban. And even then, many of them still don't learn the lesson by repeating the process on a smurf account.

Do you think constant outbursts of toxicity are normal? Because I sure as hell don't and I don't want those people in my games. Stop giving toxicity the blanket cover of "muh free speech".

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0000000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-27T15:31:47.109+0000)

"It is your responsibility to mute anyone else who is being toxic, and not hold them accountable for being disruptive." - Your TLDR

You might have freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean you're free from consequences especially when it comes to misusing it. Riot has deemed that players who abuse their chat privileges will have them revoked, and permanently banned if they do not straighten up.

Is a gun at fault when it is used as a tool for cold-blooded murder? Because your logic suggests that it is the fault of the safety not being on when the gun is used for it. Chat, just like a gun, is a tool and just like any tool in existence it can be misused. If you think you have an undeniable right to use chat however you want, go ahead and test how long you can spam hate speech and "kys" in each game (without punishment) and tell us which games take the longest to punish you. Afterwards, go ahead and repeat the process with various local restaurants/retailers and see how long it is before you're arrested for disturbing the peace.

I'm not denying that regular outbursts are normal. And for those who have the rare outbursts that go over the line take their punishment and reform. Those who are consistently toxic, though, will not reform under "muh free speech". They will never learn until they're given a smite of permaban. And even then, many of them still don't learn the lesson by repeating the process on a smurf account.

Do you think constant outbursts of toxicity are normal? Because I sure as hell don't and I don't want those people in my games. Stop giving toxicity the blanket cover of "muh free speech".

This tired ol' argument.

Riot's gotten it wrong and instead of admitting that they're wrong, they're just going to keep doing the same wrong thing until the end of time. Punishing people for being toxic hasn't done anything to combat toxicity.

"You might have freedom of speech"

1 ) We don't have freedom of speech on here because this is a privately owned establishment where the rules are dictated to by its left-leaning overlord, Riot Games.

2 ) IF we had freedom of speech and someone exercised their freedom of speech and the immediate response to something that people don't like is to take away that person's freedom to speak, then no, they didn't have a freedom of speech to begin with. The entire point of having the freedom of speech is to safeguard opinions that might offend others, not to protect overtly popular opinions that everyone already agrees with.

Comparing someone saying "Stop feeding you fucking asshole" in League chat to someone using a gun to murder people. This proves how insane the people on your side of the argument are.

Your inability to distinguish between an inconvenience and a life-altering affair means you're the last person anyone should be listening to in a talk about ethics and morality and how to handle them.

If someone says something you don't agree with in a video game chat, you have the option to talk back to them or mute them.

Reporting them so that the establishment can literally ban out their accounts and cost them hundreds/thousands of dollars invested because you were irked for a few minutes of your day is not a fair punishment. This is the equivalent of someone flicking a booger at you and spending the rest of their life in prison. The punishment needs to fit the crime if you're going to punish them, at all. We have chat restrictions and it's, by definition, the appropriate response to people saying bad things in chat. It doesn't make sense why you'd exacerbate the problem and permanently ban those accounts instead of just chat restricting them.

The offense is harmless, it's a slap on the wrist and you have tools in-place to stop them from constantly harassing you. YOU just think you're entitled to more than that. YOU think that these people need to be punished. YOU are vengeful. That's the point. You're no better a person than they are and you think you're justified because they cast the first stone. That's not how it works.

If you're going to preach to others about how to behave like a human being and that they need to mature ( even though this is a VIDEO GAME and most of the people playing it are kids and teenagers, who coincidentally haven't physically and biologically matured ), you have to lead by example. You don't get to undermine your own position where you try and preach about being compassionate towards others by literally dictating to people how they will behave or else.

I would rather have people cussing in my games than to have more people like you in my communities. This empty slogan and ideology that you and people like you keep passing around has done nothing but ruin society and social interactions between people in and out of the game and it needs to stop. Nobody's allowed to talk if it's not to agree with the hive mind.

Busty Demoness2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T03:40:44.393+0000)

This tired ol' argument.

Riot's gotten it wrong and instead of admitting that they're wrong, they're just going to keep doing the same wrong thing until the end of time. Punishing people for being toxic hasn't done anything to combat toxicity.

"You might have freedom of speech"

1 ) We don't have freedom of speech on here because this is a privately owned establishment where the rules are dictated to by its left-leaning overlord, Riot Games.

2 ) IF we had freedom of speech and someone exercised their freedom of speech and the immediate response to something that people don't like is to take away that person's freedom to speak, then no, they didn't have a freedom of speech to begin with. The entire point of having the freedom of speech is to safeguard opinions that might offend others, not to protect overtly popular opinions that everyone already agrees with.

Comparing someone saying "Stop feeding you fucking asshole" in League chat to someone using a gun to murder people. This proves how insane the people on your side of the argument are.

Your inability to distinguish between an inconvenience and a life-altering affair means you're the last person anyone should be listening to in a talk about ethics and morality and how to handle them.

If someone says something you don't agree with in a video game chat, you have the option to talk back to them or mute them.

Reporting them so that the establishment can literally ban out their accounts and cost them hundreds/thousands of dollars invested because you were irked for a few minutes of your day is not a fair punishment. This is the equivalent of someone flicking a booger at you and spending the rest of their life in prison. The punishment needs to fit the crime if you're going to punish them, at all. We have chat restrictions and it's, by definition, the appropriate response to people saying bad things in chat. It doesn't make sense why you'd exacerbate the problem and permanently ban those accounts instead of just chat restricting them.

The offense is harmless, it's a slap on the wrist and you have tools in-place to stop them from constantly harassing you. YOU just think you're entitled to more than that. YOU think that these people need to be punished. YOU are vengeful. That's the point. You're no better a person than they are and you think you're justified because they cast the first stone. That's not how it works.

If you're going to preach to others about how to behave like a human being and that they need to mature ( even though this is a VIDEO GAME and most of the people playing it are kids and teenagers, who coincidentally haven't physically and biologically matured ), you have to lead by example. You don't get to undermine your own position where you try and preach about being compassionate towards others by literally dictating to people how they will behave or else.

I would rather have people cussing in my games than to have more people like you in my communities. This empty slogan and ideology that you and people like you keep passing around has done nothing but ruin society and social interactions between people in and out of the game and it needs to stop. Nobody's allowed to talk if it's not to agree with the hive mind.

"It's more fair to have 4/9 people having their game disrupted by 1 player than to have 1 player punished for being disruptive." -You

Do you think someone is allowed to keep participating in something if they continually show poor sportsmanship or are consistently disruptive? If you think someone have more right to be disruptive than anyone else does to have an enjoyable experience in the activity, which from your statements appears to be the case, then there is no discussion or reasoning with you.

No more needs to be said. You're unreasonable and using poor logic to justify actions that are undeniably unpleasant to multiple people to protect a single player being disruptive.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000000010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T12:17:55.802+0000)

"It's more fair to have 4/9 people having their game disrupted by 1 player than to have 1 player punished for being disruptive." -You

Do you think someone is allowed to keep participating in something if they continually show poor sportsmanship or are consistently disruptive? If you think someone have more right to be disruptive than anyone else does to have an enjoyable experience in the activity, which from your statements appears to be the case, then there is no discussion or reasoning with you.

No more needs to be said. You're unreasonable and using poor logic to justify actions that are undeniably unpleasant to multiple people to protect a single player being disruptive.

If there's a disruptive person on your team, does reporting him stop him from being disruptive on your team?

When you realize the answer is no, your entire argument goes out the window.

Busty Demoness2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0000000100000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T12:51:33.688+0000)

If there's a disruptive person on your team, does reporting him stop him from being disruptive on your team?

When you realize the answer is no, your entire argument goes out the window.

Instantly? Probably not. If he doesn't learn after a 25 game chat restriction, he lands himself in the 14 day ban. If he still hasn't gotten the message, then he loses his account. And if he wants to blame everyone else for his lack of control, he clearly has not learned the lesson that his behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

The reports say players don't want to tolerate him. If enough are accrued for consistent toxic behavior, they're acted upon. If the player does not heed the punishment given to him afterwards, then he has not shown any maturity. He has chosen to ignore the "slap on the wrist" punishment and will continue to accrue greater punishments up until his account is banned.

You aren't punished for a single game. That is where Riot is lenient for those who have unnatural outbursts. For those who are consistently problematic, they issue the chat restrictions and bans. Those who understand the "slap on the wrist" warnings will know that they need to curb their behavior before they become much more serious.

If you think you, or anyone else, is ENTITLED to being a disruptive asshole, then go find a single player game where nobody can moderate your actions. Because in a team setting, it's not simply you. It's your teammates in each game where you're disruptive and for most solo players, that's a LOT of different people.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T13:07:02.384+0000)

Instantly? Probably not. If he doesn't learn after a 25 game chat restriction, he lands himself in the 14 day ban. If he still hasn't gotten the message, then he loses his account. And if he wants to blame everyone else for his lack of control, he clearly has not learned the lesson that his behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

The reports say players don't want to tolerate him. If enough are accrued for consistent toxic behavior, they're acted upon. If the player does not heed the punishment given to him afterwards, then he has not shown any maturity. He has chosen to ignore the "slap on the wrist" punishment and will continue to accrue greater punishments up until his account is banned.

You aren't punished for a single game. That is where Riot is lenient for those who have unnatural outbursts. For those who are consistently problematic, they issue the chat restrictions and bans. Those who understand the "slap on the wrist" warnings will know that they need to curb their behavior before they become much more serious.

If you think you, or anyone else, is ENTITLED to being a disruptive asshole, then go find a single player game where nobody can moderate your actions. Because in a team setting, it's not simply you. It's your teammates in each game where you're disruptive and for most solo players, that's a LOT of different people.

I yearn for the day this planet gets incinerated by a dying star or something.

It's every single person I meet online that's completely void of any sort of common sense.

It's to the point that I can't even believe we're all part of the same species because you guys have clearly not earned your place in civilized society.

The entire system that Riot Games has put forth is purported to reduce player toxicity. It hasn't.

Let me re-iterate that for you since you're going to just glance right over it.

It. Doesn't. Do. What. It. Is. Supposed. To. Do.

That means every single person who's ever been punished by this system was at the expense of a claim that's completely false. Get it?

The response? Purely SJW rhetoric from everyone in this community about how bad people get what they deserved.

This is the summation of your entire position.

They have irked me and no punishment is too bad for these heinous, vile scum of the earth human beings who are... getting mad at video games.

Because there couldn't possibly be a more ethical and moral dilemma to really nail down than those stupid sons of bitches in video game communities who want to have an opinion about things.

Alright so, your report doesn't stop the player from disrupting your game.

The collective reports of every single person that's identical to you in ideology form doesn't stop the player from disrupting more games.

The system, itself, doesn't stop toxic players from being toxic and making more accounts to be more toxic, etc...

All you have done is given a free pass for one side to act like completely shitty human beings with no consequence. And constantly punished the other side for behaving the same way first.

Now, instead of people playing the video game to play the video game. Every single game is filled with "GG REPORT THIS PERSON FOR SHIT PLAYER" "GG REPORT THIS ASSHOLE ZED PLAYER WOULDN'T SHUT UP ALL GAME" "GG REPORT FIZZ TOXIC" etc...

You're doing exactly to video game communities as you're doing to actual societies.

You're ruining them.

ImTheSideKick3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-27T14:41:27.361+0000)

Growing up means you're mature enough to understand that people have outbursts when they're emotionally charged and being able to compromise and work through those issues.

Not to treat an entire populace like they're victims and orchestrate an entire socio-political movement to safeguard everyone on the planet against the potential risk of being exposed to bad manners.

League's community has been toxic since its inception.

It's remained toxic regardless of what you and people like you, including Riot, has pretended to achieve over the past 4 or 5 years of imposing on players for legitimately rational and human responses to bad situations.

So spare me with quotes from ANYONE working at Riot in regards to ethics or player behavior because they don't know what they're talking about and they're pretending that their left-leaning pseudo science has merit. It doesn't, not philosophically, not psychologically, not objectively, not scientifically, and certainly not practically as demonstrated by this little experiment they've had running that has produced absolutely no positive results whatsoever.

no as stated above "Growing up" means to handle emotions

ragers need to grow up, not the people being raged at

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

{quoted}

no as stated above "Growing up" means to handle emotions

ragers need to grow up, not the people being raged at

You live in a vacuum, clearly. Everyone has emotional outbursts.

You all need to grow up, stop pushing responsibilities off on everyone but yourself.

ImTheSideKick4 votes

let me put it simply

being able to control said outburst is what makes some one "grown up"

raging/complaining/bitching however you want to put it when you have a outburst is childish

the mass amount of players do not wish to deal with childish behavior even if only for a short time before you mute them as a way to keep their own outbursts in check

as you are more likely to get upset when you hear some one complain more then you would if you hear it. and if you happen to get upset you are less likely to mute and more likely to defend yourself, making the issue worse

its a preventative measure

its been stated by the mass majority of the player base that they do not want a traditional VC as they do not want to listen to randoms rage. not only that but Riot would HAVE to police it, they simply cant ignore it, as they have to uphold their own rules and regulations against harassment

meaning they would have to divert MASS QUANTITIES of money into things like storage, reducing money for all other content

there are FAR to many negatives to make up for the minimum positive possibilities

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

{quoted}

let me put it simply

being able to control said outburst is what makes some one "grown up"

raging/complaining/bitching however you want to put it when you have a outburst is childish

the mass amount of players do not wish to deal with childish behavior even if only for a short time before you mute them as a way to keep their own outbursts in check

as you are more likely to get upset when you hear some one complain more then you would if you hear it. and if you happen to get upset you are less likely to mute and more likely to defend yourself, making the issue worse

its a preventative measure

its been stated by the mass majority of the player base that they do not want a traditional VC as they do not want to listen to randoms rage. not only that but Riot would HAVE to police it, they simply cant ignore it, as they have to uphold their own rules and regulations against harassment

meaning they would have to divert MASS QUANTITIES of money into things like storage, reducing money for all other content

there are FAR to many negatives to make up for the minimum positive possibilities

Everyone has emotional outbursts. You're conflating what's happening on League to benefit your agenda.

Here's an example of controlling your emotions in real life :

Person A goes to work, something happens that ruins his/her day, and then Person A proceeds to murder everyone at place of employment. Person A goes to work, something happens that ruins his/her day, and then Person A proceeds to mutter the words "Fuck this job, I don't need this shit" and then goes on about their day.

You're somehow equating people in League saying "Stop fucking feeding, shithead" to the first example.

These people are not jumping out of their chair, smashing their keyboards into the window, killing their families in droves, etc... They're just telling you to fuck off in a video game.

This is a perfectly healthy outlet for frustration and you're trying to strip it away because you don't have the intellectual maturity to press a button to silence them but you have the pompous attitude to believe your 5 seconds of being irked is worth their account and all the time/money invested into it.

Rationalize it.

Busty Demoness2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0000000100000000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T13:55:40.086+0000)

Everyone has emotional outbursts. You're conflating what's happening on League to benefit your agenda.

Here's an example of controlling your emotions in real life :

Person A goes to work, something happens that ruins his/her day, and then Person A proceeds to murder everyone at place of employment. Person A goes to work, something happens that ruins his/her day, and then Person A proceeds to mutter the words "Fuck this job, I don't need this shit" and then goes on about their day.

You're somehow equating people in League saying "Stop fucking feeding, shithead" to the first example.

These people are not jumping out of their chair, smashing their keyboards into the window, killing their families in droves, etc... They're just telling you to fuck off in a video game.

This is a perfectly healthy outlet for frustration and you're trying to strip it away because you don't have the intellectual maturity to press a button to silence them but you have the pompous attitude to believe your 5 seconds of being irked is worth their account and all the time/money invested into it.

Rationalize it.

No. We're equating chat flaming to "going over to the next table at the restaurant and screaming profanities no matter who is there after a bad day". And then he repeats the process every couple days. Your argument is that these should never be punished no matter how often they happen.

You don't get punished for one game, which you fail to realize. And in order to punish for consistent toxicity in voice chat, ALL of it needs recorded for every single player and then manually reviewed by a human being.

Grow up. It is not the responsibility of those around you to put duct tape over their ears just so they don't hear you raging like a yeti that just stabbed his own foot. It is not their responsibility to put duct tape on your mouth either just so they don't have to deal with you being a belligerent asshole. If YOU cannot restrain yourself beyond rare outbursts, then you do not deserve to interact with people. We are talking about CONSISTENT toxic behavior and you amount a week of constant flaming to a single game where someone said "fuck you".

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T14:36:11.375+0000)

No. We're equating chat flaming to "going over to the next table at the restaurant and screaming profanities no matter who is there after a bad day". And then he repeats the process every couple days. Your argument is that these should never be punished no matter how often they happen.

You don't get punished for one game, which you fail to realize. And in order to punish for consistent toxicity in voice chat, ALL of it needs recorded for every single player and then manually reviewed by a human being.

Grow up. It is not the responsibility of those around you to put duct tape over their ears just so they don't hear you raging like a yeti that just stabbed his own foot. It is not their responsibility to put duct tape on your mouth either just so they don't have to deal with you being a belligerent asshole. If YOU cannot restrain yourself beyond rare outbursts, then you do not deserve to interact with people. We are talking about CONSISTENT toxic behavior and you amount a week of constant flaming to a single game where someone said "fuck you".

That's a dishonest representation of what's happening and you shouldn't inject yourself into someone else's position as if you know what their thoughts are on the matter.

But if you're equating chat flaming to screaming at random people in a restaurant then I think we found another hole in your logic.

League of Legends forces you onto a team with 4 other people who will make or break whether or not you win that match.

Everything that every single person on that team does plays a role in the outcome. Everything. That's not "only what gets said in a chat box." When you play like shit, it affects their chances of winning. When you don't listen to pings from roams, it affects their chances of winning. When you refuse to play the objective with the rest of your team, it affects their chances of winning. When you play an offensive mage as a support with Ignite, buy no support items, KS your carries, push side lanes so carries can't farm, etc... it affects their chances of winning.

Someone sitting next to you at a restaurant has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you're going to win a match in a highly competitive environment.

And AGAIN, you're talking about a demographic that's primarily teenagers and very young adults and treating them like they just spent the past 40 years of their life meditating in a sensory-deprivation chamber.

Busty Demoness2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-28T12:53:50.860+0000)

You live in a vacuum, clearly. Everyone has emotional outbursts.

You all need to grow up, stop pushing responsibilities off on everyone but yourself.

At what point is it OUR responsibility to tolerate immature ragers?

Answer that, and MAYBE you'll have a valid argument. Because I already explained why it isn't.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000000010000000000010000000100000001,timestamp=2018-03-28T13:10:06.786+0000)

At what point is it OUR responsibility to tolerate immature ragers?

Answer that, and MAYBE you'll have a valid argument. Because I already explained why it isn't.

Why's it smart peoples' responsibility to tolerate stupid people?

Answer that and MAYBE you'll have a valid argument.

Busty Demoness2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0000000100000000000100000001000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-28T13:45:50.212+0000)

Why's it smart peoples' responsibility to tolerate stupid people?

Answer that and MAYBE you'll have a valid argument.

Except I just asked that question to you.

Tell me, how is it smart to be a constant disturbance to everyone around you? How is it smart to be a raging asshole over something you can't control? How is it smart to constantly let your anger get the better of you and lead you into flaming everything that goes into chat?

If anything, this shows that YOU have no common sense. That YOU would rather not hold people accountable for being unable to restrain themselves. That YOU have no idea what you're talking about. And that YOU cannot put responsibility where it needs to be.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T14:30:23.173+0000)

Except I just asked that question to you.

Tell me, how is it smart to be a constant disturbance to everyone around you? How is it smart to be a raging asshole over something you can't control? How is it smart to constantly let your anger get the better of you and lead you into flaming everything that goes into chat?

If anything, this shows that YOU have no common sense. That YOU would rather not hold people accountable for being unable to restrain themselves. That YOU have no idea what you're talking about. And that YOU cannot put responsibility where it needs to be.

Being an asshole or disruptive has nothing to do with being smart and you're the one making the mistake of trying to draw lines that I haven't drawn.

I retorted with a similar question to show you the hole in reasoning for the premise of your question.

You did not earn your disposition. You were born in a completely random time to completely random parents to a completely random household and raised by completely random groups of people in a completely random region under completely random ideologies and were taught completely random courtesies and manners, etc...

Some people are burdened with less ethical and moral fiber than others due to these factors. Some people are privileged with more ethical and moral fiber than others due to these factors.

A genius did not earn his I.Q. He was born in a completely random time to completely random parents to a completely random household and raised by completely random groups of people and inherited completely random genes.

Your question is why should this privileged group tolerate this burdened group, in a nutshell.

So if your logic is good and true then it should apply universally, right?

If I am smarter than you, why should I not ostracize you from my group and society?

Is it ethical to exclude everyone you don't agree with? Are you doing the world or society a favor in doing this?

Bad people still have something to offer to good people. Stupid people still have something to offer to smart people.

You cannot reduce everyone to one facet of their being and use it to treat them like lepers or as if they have no value.

If it were up to me, every single toxic player in this community would be in all my teams in ranked queues and all the good-natured, nice people can be on the opposing teams.

It's been my personal experience that toxic assholes are, on average, vastly superior players to genuinely nice, wholesome people.

Now if I want to have a nice, civilized conversation or just hang out with someone for a good time, I'll call on the nice, wholesome people.

Busty Demoness2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000000010000000000010000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T14:47:59.091+0000)

Being an asshole or disruptive has nothing to do with being smart and you're the one making the mistake of trying to draw lines that I haven't drawn.

You're right. But a smart person knows that you don't just go in being the asshole out the gate. And this is why your entire argument is not only flawed, but entitled drivel that doesn't deserve the discussion it has gotten because you'd rather spout nonsense (which I clipped from your post).

You are not even the slightest bit reasonable or logical in your argument. You continue to spam nonsensical logic that says "the individual matters more than the community!" That is not how things work and you are flat out wrong.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0000000100000000000100000001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T14:55:54.360+0000)

You're right.

Good talk. ( clipped all the entitled unreasonable illogical nonsensical flawed drivel from your post )

brônco1 votes

[deleted]

Busty Demoness2 votes

{quoted}

did you know about the mute function, it really helps

(snip)

Allow me to quote a previous post I made that completely invalidates your post.

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00000001000000000001,timestamp=2018-03-27T14:27:29.354+0000)

"A mute button is not an excuse for you to be toxic." - Riot

Growing up means you're mature enough to not be a raging asshole over something you can't control (teammates playing badly, for example). Voice cannot be policed (as has been explained) and I sure as hell get enough of the raging children (of all ages) when I play CoD. The only reason COD is more tolerable is because I'm not stuck with those kids for more than 10 minutes and I can leave with minimal penalty. I don't get either of those with League.

And I'm being polite to cut out the clear harassment you feel entitled to using.

The Whamboozler2 votes

Dawg, if they put in voice it's gonna be toxic as hell. If they let people disable it, then a shit load of solo players WILL, making it more or less the same as if they'd only put it in for groups in the first place.

Now personally I feel the voice chat is pointless too... but I think they just shouldn't have bothered with it, not that they need to make it more inclusive. At least the slim chance of discord making them lag is one of the few advantages solo players MIGHT have over premades.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-03-28T04:10:50.238+0000)

Dawg, if they put in voice it's gonna be toxic as hell. If they let people disable it, then a shit load of solo players WILL, making it more or less the same as if they'd only put it in for groups in the first place.

Now personally I feel the voice chat is pointless too... but I think they just shouldn't have bothered with it, not that they need to make it more inclusive. At least the slim chance of discord making them lag is one of the few advantages solo players MIGHT have over premades.

This has been a long-standing dilemma when coming to mechanics and other things in video games.

Do we ultimately restrict anything and everything that might have the side-effect of having people mis-use it, so that nobody can use anything?

Or do we allow everyone to use that something and instead, put in-place, tools in which those occurrences can be, for the most part, mitigated by the players themselves?

Personally, I'm for the latter.

The worst parts of a community should not be given the power to dictate what can or can't be put into the game for others to enjoy.

I think everyone needs to recognize that simply by queue'ing up into a game, you've already allotted a great deal of trust towards others to do what they're supposed to do.

Sure, you get people who are assholes from time to time but for the MOST PART, everyone tries to play to win even if they're bad at the game.

If everyone in every game wanted to do nothing but be toxic, you wouldn't win any of your games, because everyone would just be running around playing with their buttholes in random bushes or INT'ing or simply refusing to participate, etc...

Since this is not the case, I don't agree that in-game VOIP would be used primarily for toxicity and I think having a mute button would allow players to circumvent the small amount of cases in which this happens.

The Whamboozler2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-03-28T04:26:52.662+0000)

This has been a long-standing dilemma when coming to mechanics and other things in video games.

Do we ultimately restrict anything and everything that might have the side-effect of having people mis-use it, so that nobody can use anything?

Or do we allow everyone to use that something and instead, put in-place, tools in which those occurrences can be, for the most part, mitigated by the players themselves?

Personally, I'm for the latter.

The worst parts of a community should not be given the power to dictate what can or can't be put into the game for others to enjoy.

I think everyone needs to recognize that simply by queue'ing up into a game, you've already allotted a great deal of trust towards others to do what they're supposed to do.

Sure, you get people who are assholes from time to time but for the MOST PART, everyone tries to play to win even if they're bad at the game.

If everyone in every game wanted to do nothing but be toxic, you wouldn't win any of your games, because everyone would just be running around playing with their buttholes in random bushes or INT'ing or simply refusing to participate, etc...

Since this is not the case, I don't agree that in-game VOIP would be used primarily for toxicity and I think having a mute button would allow players to circumvent the small amount of cases in which this happens.

Yeah, see... I'm gonna say "too little, too late". If league had STARTED with voice chat, that'd be one thing but it's lacked it for years and the game has kinda become a thing based around not having it. Personally, I PREFER not having it, because I would not want to talk to anyone while I'm trying to play the game. I also strongly suspect that if they DID add voice chat for all, people like me who do not want to use it will not only be at a large disadvantage due to our lack of coordination with our team, but that we will be the target of more hate than normal by surly teammates who feel us not listening to them is hurting their chances to win. I don't dislike it because I feel it's bad for the game or even the player base. I dislike it because I do not want to have a new "tool" added to the game that I do not want and will not use, but will likely be hated for opting out of.

I would not have gotten into league in the first place if had voice chat from the get-go. Simple as that. And honestly... I'd rather they put resources towards developing things more useful than "look, you can voice chat with your premade now!". Big whoop... premades already did that. The only change now is that they can do it in-client. So as it stands currently, it's another little advantage given to premades... and if they give it to EVERYONE, it's going to be an advantage given to everyone BUT me... and one more thing I can catch shit over from my teammates.

Can you see why I'm not really enthralled with the idea no matter HOW they do it?

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T06:39:04.174+0000)

Yeah, see... I'm gonna say "too little, too late". If league had STARTED with voice chat, that'd be one thing but it's lacked it for years and the game has kinda become a thing based around not having it. Personally, I PREFER not having it, because I would not want to talk to anyone while I'm trying to play the game. I also strongly suspect that if they DID add voice chat for all, people like me who do not want to use it will not only be at a large disadvantage due to our lack of coordination with our team, but that we will be the target of more hate than normal by surly teammates who feel us not listening to them is hurting their chances to win. I don't dislike it because I feel it's bad for the game or even the player base. I dislike it because I do not want to have a new "tool" added to the game that I do not want and will not use, but will likely be hated for opting out of.

I would not have gotten into league in the first place if had voice chat from the get-go. Simple as that. And honestly... I'd rather they put resources towards developing things more useful than "look, you can voice chat with your premade now!". Big whoop... premades already did that. The only change now is that they can do it in-client. So as it stands currently, it's another little advantage given to premades... and if they give it to EVERYONE, it's going to be an advantage given to everyone BUT me... and one more thing I can catch shit over from my teammates.

Can you see why I'm not really enthralled with the idea no matter HOW they do it?

I can see why you have talked yourself into this box where you believe it's inherently a bad thing.

You're making a lot of leaps and assumptions about what will happen if it gets implemented and how people will treat you, etc...

I'm not saying that you're entirely wrong on any of those assumptions but you should probably question whether or not you're equating a select few extreme cases of asshole-like behavior as the norm.

Even if you choose not to talk to your team-mates through voice in-game, you might get as much entertainment from listening to others ramble on about inane shit as you're under the impression that it'd just be negativity.

You never know. There are a lot of looney tunes out there.

The Whamboozler3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T07:30:27.186+0000)

I can see why you have talked yourself into this box where you believe it's inherently a bad thing.

You're making a lot of leaps and assumptions about what will happen if it gets implemented and how people will treat you, etc...

I'm not saying that you're entirely wrong on any of those assumptions but you should probably question whether or not you're equating a select few extreme cases of asshole-like behavior as the norm.

Even if you choose not to talk to your team-mates through voice in-game, you might get as much entertainment from listening to others ramble on about inane shit as you're under the impression that it'd just be negativity.

You never know. There are a lot of looney tunes out there.

I'm not "talking myself into a box". I'm stating that I don't plan to use the thing so I don't really care if Riot implements it at all... and I wish they'd have put that money and effort elsewhere.

No matter how many looney tunes there are, I will never know because if voice-chat DID become a thing for everyone, I would turn it right the hell off and leave it that way. I do not WANT to hear people rambling while I play the game. Even if once in a while someone says something genuinely funny. I want to listen to my music. Or to the game's VO's. Or to a podcast. I do not care in the LEAST about whatever the people playing the game have to say.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T07:36:13.702+0000)

I'm not "talking myself into a box". I'm stating that I don't plan to use the thing so I don't really care if Riot implements it at all... and I wish they'd have put that money and effort elsewhere.

No matter how many looney tunes there are, I will never know because if voice-chat DID become a thing for everyone, I would turn it right the hell off and leave it that way. I do not WANT to hear people rambling while I play the game. Even if once in a while someone says something genuinely funny. I want to listen to my music. Or to the game's VO's. Or to a podcast. I do not care in the LEAST about whatever the people playing the game have to say.

Why are you playing online video games if you want absolutely zero interactions with other people?

The Whamboozler2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T07:45:27.066+0000)

Why are you playing online video games if you want absolutely zero interactions with other people?

Well to be fair, I don't play much league anymore. But the answer when I DID was "because I enjoy the gameplay". Don't act like it's so foreign an idea. People play MMO's all the time and don't care to interact with other players. They have entire classes designed to enable that kind of playstyle... like hunters in WoW. Bots are too easy to stomp for the game to be much fun unless you play against other players... and that means I need other players on my team too. It doesn't mean I want to talk to them or hear them rambling about shit the entire game. I want to hear Sion scream "COWARDS" when I press R, not some guy rambling on about whatever the shit he's on about. And that's if we assume no one is going to be rude, offensive or just plain stupid in the chat... which they inevitably WILL. So why bother with it? I don't want what it's selling and there's no reason I can find to EVER turn the thing on.

It's a bit close-minded to assume that just because you want something or enjoy playing a certain way that everyone else does and yours is the only playstyle that should be catered to.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T08:06:01.789+0000)

Well to be fair, I don't play much league anymore. But the answer when I DID was "because I enjoy the gameplay". Don't act like it's so foreign an idea. People play MMO's all the time and don't care to interact with other players. They have entire classes designed to enable that kind of playstyle... like hunters in WoW. Bots are too easy to stomp for the game to be much fun unless you play against other players... and that means I need other players on my team too. It doesn't mean I want to talk to them or hear them rambling about shit the entire game. I want to hear Sion scream "COWARDS" when I press R, not some guy rambling on about whatever the shit he's on about. And that's if we assume no one is going to be rude, offensive or just plain stupid in the chat... which they inevitably WILL. So why bother with it? I don't want what it's selling and there's no reason I can find to EVER turn the thing on.

It's a bit close-minded to assume that just because you want something or enjoy playing a certain way that everyone else does and yours is the only playstyle that should be catered to.

You're sitting here saying a feature shouldn't be enabled on a game that you don't play much anymore because of your certain way of playing and everyone else who would use the feature shouldn't have the feature implemented because of your choice.

How's that not close-minded?

League isn't WoW and there is no "solo playstyle" in League. It's all team-based and teams need to communicate and work together.

The Whamboozler2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T08:11:48.436+0000)

You're sitting here saying a feature shouldn't be enabled on a game that you don't play much anymore because of your certain way of playing and everyone else who would use the feature shouldn't have the feature implemented because of your choice.

How's that not close-minded?

League isn't WoW and there is no "solo playstyle" in League. It's all team-based and teams need to communicate and work together.

Actually sir... I said "I do not care about this feature", and then explained why. I never said "league shouldn't implement voice chat"... I said "I would prefer that money and work be put into other parts of the game". As in... my fuckin' opinion.

It's a moot point though, since Riot DIDN'T implement full-party voice chat. If they do, I will not care. If they don't... I will not care. I never plan to USE the stupid voice chat. Riot will do what Riot wants to do and neither of us is going to change that. All I was doing was expressing my opinion before you got upset by it.

And for the RECORD... the close-minded part was not acknowledging that someone could play the game in a different way than you, not that you want voice chat and I don't. Close-minded referred to you saying "why are you even playing this game?" as if the ONLY reasons to play a game are the ones you personally believe in. "Close-minded" was NOT in regards to you wanting voice chat or me thinking it's an unneeded waste of resources. It was put out there because you pretty much implied that only people playing the game to talk to their team SHOULD be playing the game. And that's close-minded. Well, actually... that's selfish and dickish, but close-minded seemed more polite a way to put it.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T08:25:12.815+0000)

Actually sir... I said "I do not care about this feature", and then explained why. I never said "league shouldn't implement voice chat"... I said "I would prefer that money and work be put into other parts of the game". As in... my fuckin' opinion.

It's a moot point though, since Riot DIDN'T implement full-party voice chat. If they do, I will not care. If they don't... I will not care. I never plan to USE the stupid voice chat. Riot will do what Riot wants to do and neither of us is going to change that. All I was doing was expressing my opinion before you got upset by it.

And for the RECORD... the close-minded part was not acknowledging that someone could play the game in a different way than you, not that you want voice chat and I don't. Close-minded referred to you saying "why are you even playing this game?" as if the ONLY reasons to play a game are the ones you personally believe in. "Close-minded" was NOT in regards to you wanting voice chat or me thinking it's an unneeded waste of resources. It was put out there because you pretty much implied that only people playing the game to talk to their team SHOULD be playing the game. And that's close-minded. Well, actually... that's selfish and dickish, but close-minded seemed more polite a way to put it.

You are playing a game that is team-based. Your entire position has been 'I do not want anything to do with my team. I don't want to talk to them and I do not want to listen to them.'

It is not close-minded to inquire why you would intentionally choose to play a game centered around the very things that you seem to be against.

If I hated pirates I would not, in turn, play nothing but pirate games and complain that there are pirates in the game.

You're taking a public stance against the implementation of a feature and asserting that it will do this, this, and this and you will somehow be victimized and bullied because of it as a means to sway the argument in favor of not implementing said feature.

You've also resorted to calling everything I have to say to you as close-minded, selfish, dickish, etc...

But I would not be opposed to taking the stance that if you're refusing to communicate and cooperate with your team in a team-based environment, maybe what you want isn't conducive to the betterment of the game.

You're behaving in the most counter-intuitive way that one would expect to behave if they're playing on a team.

The Whamboozler2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T08:46:09.259+0000)

You are playing a game that is team-based. Your entire position has been 'I do not want anything to do with my team. I don't want to talk to them and I do not want to listen to them.'

Did I say I wanted nothing to do with them? No. You're putting words in my mouth. I said I don't want to hear their voices while I play. That is all I said. Way to make assumptions tho!

It is not close-minded to inquire why you would intentionally choose to play a game centered around the very things that you seem to be against.

Perhaps these days the game is "centered" around having your team hold your hand every step of the way but for a good while there you used to be able to win your lane and carry the game without your teammates being the anchor that drags you down.

If I hated pirates I would not, in turn, play nothing but pirate games and complain that there are pirates in the game.

If you enjoyed fighting games but hated pirates you might still play a fighting game that involved pirates. This metaphor made no god damned sense, and wasn't even correct at the end of the day!

You're taking a public stance against the implementation of a feature and asserting that it will do this, this, and this and you will somehow be victimized and bullied because of it as a means to sway the argument in favor of not implementing said feature.

Yep. Me on my soapbox here on the boards... preaching my ways to all three people who will see this post.

You've also resorted to calling everything I have to say to you as close-minded, selfish, dickish, etc...

I call 'em like I see 'em. You're getting a good start on earning "condescending" now too.

But I would not be opposed to taking the stance that if you're refusing to communicate and cooperate with your team in a team-based environment, maybe what you want isn't conducive to the betterment of the game.

You're behaving in the most counter-intuitive way that one would expect to behave if they're playing on a team.

Ok... I get that logic isn't your strong point, but let me explain this. If the game does not contain full-party voice chat, then my desire to not use full-party voice chat doesn't hurt my team at ALL, does it? Maybe I just don't want to hear our duo bot having some long conversation for the entire game. But for not wanting to listen to people I don't know rambling... I'm in the wrong? Do you also find people that mute their teammates to be wrong too? After all, they're cutting off that communication. Is the only "proper" way to play to leave everything on? And what about listening to what is said? If someone in chat says "let's baron now" and I think that's a stupid call... am I the problem for not listening to them? What if I'm right and baron is warded and they all die trying to sneak it? Am I in the right now?

By forcing more and more of this teamplay bullshit into the game, they are ruining the game for people not interested in playing with a fuckin' group... and as much as you may not believe it, that group is larger than just me! Solo players aren't freakin' lepers, even if we are second-class citizens around her as far as riot is concerned. But enjoy your voice chat man. Enjoy two people trying to shotcall at the same time while two others talk about dumb shit and harass the jungler for not ganking for them. If you think giving five people an open mic will make the game LESS chaotic and disorganized, you're NUTS.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T10:05:35.842+0000)

Did I say I wanted nothing to do with them? No. You're putting words in my mouth. I said I don't want to hear their voices while I play. That is all I said. Way to make assumptions tho!

Perhaps these days the game is "centered" around having your team hold your hand every step of the way but for a good while there you used to be able to win your lane and carry the game without your teammates being the anchor that drags you down.

If you enjoyed fighting games but hated pirates you might still play a fighting game that involved pirates. This metaphor made no god damned sense, and wasn't even correct at the end of the day!

Yep. Me on my soapbox here on the boards... preaching my ways to all three people who will see this post.

I call 'em like I see 'em. You're getting a good start on earning "condescending" now too.

Ok... I get that logic isn't your strong point, but let me explain this. If the game does not contain full-party voice chat, then my desire to not use full-party voice chat doesn't hurt my team at ALL, does it? Maybe I just don't want to hear our duo bot having some long conversation for the entire game. But for not wanting to listen to people I don't know rambling... I'm in the wrong? Do you also find people that mute their teammates to be wrong too? After all, they're cutting off that communication. Is the only "proper" way to play to leave everything on? And what about listening to what is said? If someone in chat says "let's baron now" and I think that's a stupid call... am I the problem for not listening to them? What if I'm right and baron is warded and they all die trying to sneak it? Am I in the right now?

By forcing more and more of this teamplay bullshit into the game, they are ruining the game for people not interested in playing with a fuckin' group... and as much as you may not believe it, that group is larger than just me! Solo players aren't freakin' lepers, even if we are second-class citizens around her as far as riot is concerned. But enjoy your voice chat man. Enjoy two people trying to shotcall at the same time while two others talk about dumb shit and harass the jungler for not ganking for them. If you think giving five people an open mic will make the game LESS chaotic and disorganized, you're NUTS.

You seem to be playing word games where you're allowed to say everything that implies you want nothing to do with other people but without literally saying "I don't like playing with other people" as a means to bait people into this assumption about your position so that you can use it to undermine their arguments.

( Most of these are not verbatim ) "I don't want to talk to them." "I don't want to listen to them." "I'd play bot games but the bots aren't hard enough." "They're the anchors that weigh me down." "By forcing more and more of this teamplay bullshit into the game, they are ruining the game for people not interested in playing with a fuckin' group" Etc...

The game is and has always been a team-based game.

If I enjoyed fighting games, I'd play the fighting games that're not centered around the one thing I hate instead of playing that specific one and complaining about it being centered around the one thing I hate.

You also seem to be throwing a lot of adjectives out that you aren't aware of applying to your own posts.

"Condescending" "Ok... I get that logic isn't your strong point" "Selfish" Wants Riot to tailor to your playstyle even though it's completely counter-intuitive to the game's design. "Dickish" Constantly making passive aggressive snide remarks towards opposing viewpoints.

And technically speaking, not having in-game voice chat and not using out-of-game voice chats does have a negative impact on your team.

If everyone on your team is random and can't verbally communicate and you're against a team that has even two people in a VOIP together, you're objectively at a disadvantage.

Now before you go into some rant about how "Pfft, I've 1 v 3'd guys who were in VOIP together." That's great but it has nothing to do with the argument because we're talking about advantages, not whether or not someone can overcome said advantages based purely on differences in skill level.

Verbal communication is an advantage because you can seamlessly shotcall and express deeper strategies almost instantaneously instead of having to stop and type for 10 seconds or make shallow playcalls through pings.

There's a reason ALL e-sports teams use VOIP. There isn't a team in e-sports that's like "Nah, I don't need to hear what they're talking about or say anything, I'm too good at the game by myself." In fact, one of the biggest gripes on professional teams is someone not communicating with the rest of the team.

The Whamboozler3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T11:10:38.012+0000)

You seem to be playing word games where you're allowed to say everything that implies you want nothing to do with other people but without literally saying "I don't like playing with other people" as a means to bait people into this assumption about your position so that you can use it to undermine their arguments.

Dude, who DOES like playing with other people? Unless they're in your premade, no one likes playing with randos. This is such a long-held belief of dozens of games that I'm wondering what your point her even IS. Do YOU enjoy playing with four randoms that are all running around doing stupid shit? Isn't the entire point OF the voice chat idea that random people are uncoordinated as hell and need better means of communication?

( Most of these are not verbatim ) "I don't want to talk to them." "I don't want to listen to them." "I'd play bot games but the bots aren't hard enough." "They're the anchors that weigh me down." "By forcing more and more of this teamplay bullshit into the game, they are ruining the game for people not interested in playing with a fuckin' group" Etc...

Yes. If they could make a single player experience that was even half as challenging and diverse as multiplayer I would play that shit in an instant. I enjoy the gameplay, not the people. If you could make a bot capable of playing like a person would, I would play that shit all the time. HOWEVER, we do not have that. Bots are predictable and easy to beat. They are not fun to play against because they are not challenging. I enjoy playing against a diverse and challenging bunch of opponents, so I play against real people.

But that does NOT mean I want to hear them gibbering away at me through my headset for 30 minutes. Perhaps YOU do not understand the idea of wanting to play a chill game and not socializing with random fuckin' people I've never met and will never meet again, but I assure you there are PLENTY of people who do not want to have to talk to people on the fucking internet during a game they play to relax. Call me anti-social all you want, but do not pull that "well why play at all if you dislike teams?". That's just a long-winded way of saying "like what I like or get the fuck out".

The game is and has always been a team-based game.

It also used to be a game where HotshotGG could go 8/0 as Nidalee in top lane without even SEEING a jungler or roaming once, then carry the game off of that massive lead he'd built. Good fucking luck doing that now. Or are you pretending the game has always been as team-focused as it is now too?

If I enjoyed fighting games, I'd play the fighting games that're not centered around the one thing I hate instead of playing that specific one and complaining about it being centered around the one thing I hate.

If you enjoy how say, Tekken plays... you play Tekken. If you dislike a few of the characters in Tekken, you play other characters because you still enjoy tekken. If they KEEP adding characters you dislike to the game... and taking away the ones that you DO like... THEN you are in my position. Again, you are saying "enjoy how the game is now or fuck off". Which is dickish. The game has changed a lot since it's inception. Are you implying that people who used to like it are no longer allowed to like it or want to play it because it's changed so much? Are you saying that I never really liked it because I don't care so much about the teamplay aspects? That's REALLY god-damned arrogant to tell someone what they do and don't like or what they should or shouldn't do.

You also seem to be throwing a lot of adjectives out that you aren't aware of applying to your own posts.

"Condescending"

You have been.

"Ok... I get that logic isn't your strong point"

It's clearly not. Also you seem to misunderstand a lot of words that you are throwing about to make vital points, but I'll get to that below.

"Selfish"

You've told me multiple times that I shouldn't even be playing the game. Your point of view IS extremely self-centered and fails to acknowledge that people might want to do something despite not liking one or two aspects of it. Yes... because everyone who enjoys swimming enjoys working on perfecting their form and running relays! Everybody that plays basketball wants to play a full game with five man teams, a ref and all the professional rules. NO ONE plays horse or one on one or any of that casual shit.

Wants Riot to tailor to your playstyle even though it's completely counter-intuitive to the game's design.

Ok, here is that word you keep misusing. Counter-intuitive means "contrary to expectations"... which means that by calling the way I choose to play this, you are saying that the obvious, logical way to play that everyone agrees upon by default is to jump into a game full of people you don't know and to attempt to coordinate with them. Now here i thought the obvious way to play was to pick a lane and try to beat the enemy playing that lane too... but apparently I am mistaken. I'm sure people queue mid thinking "wonderful, now to spend all game trying to support my team!" not "Time to stomp mid".

The boards are FULL of complaints from people who are upset that they cannot influence the game from their lanes, even if they get fed... usually people complaining that only bot lane matters. But by your logic, shouldn't the OBVIOUS and intuitive way to play be to be grouping and coordinating the team ALL THE TIME? Why be upset that you don't matter in top lane if individual performance doesn't matter so much and teamplay does? I guess all these people that want to play their lanes and stomp just don't understand the game, eh? I guess they should all stop playing TOO, as you keep suggesting I do if I dislike the game becoming more and more focused around holding hands with your teammates and less and less about personal actions and skill.

"Dickish" Constantly making passive aggressive snide remarks towards opposing viewpoints.

I will admit to this... I am extremely snide. And as we ALL know... intuitively... people who are mean to you are always wrong. Always. No one who has EVER been a bit rude to you has EVER had a point or been right about ANYTHING. I mean, that would be counter-intuitive.

And technically speaking, not having in-game voice chat and not using out-of-game voice chats does have a negative impact on your team.

If everyone on your team is random and can't verbally communicate and you're against a team that has even two people in a VOIP together, you're objectively at a disadvantage.

Yeah... and we've been at this disadvantage for years, because that is how the game works. That premade is ALWAYS going to have an advantage, because they are a premade. They likely know each other and will cooperate better than a bunch of randos. If you were arguing against premades existing, this would be a fair point... but you are not so I fail to see what you're saying here. We NEED voice chat because premades have an edge? I'm certain five random people all struggling to tell each other what to do over a voice line will fix that!

Now before you go into some rant about how "Pfft, I've 1 v 3'd guys who were in VOIP together." That's great but it has nothing to do with the argument because we're talking about advantages, not whether or not someone can overcome said advantages based purely on differences in skill level.

Now you're just making a strawman and gluing my face to it. WE were NOT talking about advantages and I never said any of that.... nor was I planning to.

Verbal communication is an advantage because you can seamlessly shotcall and express deeper strategies almost instantaneously instead of having to stop and type for 10 seconds or make shallow playcalls through pings.

OR, we can have two people having a conversation because they're irl friends... one person trying to shotcall and being ignored... one person endlessly bugging another player to help his lane while the last player ignores everyone on the line because he's listening to music. I feel like this is more likely to happen than people all sitting down and becoming complete fuckin professionals the second voice chat is on.

And the thing you keep ignoring is... what if I WANT to play the game and listen to music and just chill? Now I'm putting my team at a disadvantage because I don't want to turn on the voice chat and listen to four people I don't know tell each other what to do? Whee... what fun. I've always said the only thing more fun than playing a game is playing a game with four people backseat gaming and telling you what you're doing wrong every step of the way. Oh, but I forgot... we're pretending that people won't be rude or toxic over this thing, right?

There's a reason ALL e-sports teams use VOIP. There isn't a team in e-sports that's like "Nah, I don't need to hear what they're talking about or say anything, I'm too good at the game by myself." In fact, one of the biggest gripes on professional teams is someone not communicating with the rest of the team.

If you do not understand that PROFESSIONAL TEAMS and casual players might play the game a bit differently, I think we're done talking here. Some asshole sitting at home playing league for fun is NOT a member of TSM. He is not playing the game at a professional level and only to win. Some of us are playing the game to, counter-intuitive as it might be, HAVE FUN. And some of us don't find having a bunch of people we do not know rambling at us to be very fun. I do not want to feel obligated to talk to people in game. We're not playing this shit professionally! I am playing to enjoy it.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T19:08:22.744+0000)

snip

Yeah, I'm not addressing all of this. After reading through it, it's just more verbal diarrhea about how all the accusations I've made about your position prior to this post were entirely accurate but you want to attach completely irrelevant variables to each situation to try and make the argument about something else so as to avoid acknowledging faults in your logic.

This thread has become a lagoon for 2 or 3 people on your side of the argument to sit here and pat each other on the back to qualify your lack of reasoning and/or logic while pretending that popularity equates to intellect.

Every post you've made has been consecutive concessions to your positions, dishonest comparisons to represent empty slogans to get your way, name-calling, being hypocrites, being disingenuous for the sake of being disingenuous because you can't afford to have an honest discussion with different opinions in play, constant backpacking on each other to to spam downvotes on every comment, etc...

To summarize, you've all been pretty shitty human beings in a short amount of time while claiming to be against shitty human behavior and I'm done talking to you about it.

Data doesn't support your claims. "Feel" your way around that objective truth and sort yourselves out.

Nothing you've said thus far has held up to the least bit of scrutiny and this isn't enjoyable for me anymore.

Enjoy your days.

The Whamboozler2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-28T19:26:05.167+0000)

Yeah, I'm not addressing all of this. After reading through it, it's just more verbal diarrhea about how all the accusations I've made about your position prior to this post were entirely accurate but you want to attach completely irrelevant variables to each situation to try and make the argument about something else so as to avoid acknowledging faults in your logic.

This thread has become a lagoon for 2 or 3 people on your side of the argument to sit here and pat each other on the back to qualify your lack of reasoning and/or logic while pretending that popularity equates to intellect.

Every post you've made has been consecutive concessions to your positions, dishonest comparisons to represent empty slogans to get your way, name-calling, being hypocrites, being disingenuous for the sake of being disingenuous because you can't afford to have an honest discussion with different opinions in play, constant backpacking on each other to to spam downvotes on every comment, etc...

To summarize, you've all been pretty shitty human beings in a short amount of time while claiming to be against shitty human behavior and I'm done talking to you about it.

Data doesn't support your claims. "Feel" your way around that objective truth and sort yourselves out.

Nothing you've said thus far has held up to the least bit of scrutiny and this isn't enjoyable for me anymore.

Enjoy your days.

"You are wrong because I disagree with you". Sound logic, bud. Also... "you've all been"? I haven't spoken to ANYONE in this thread but you, so good of you to lump me in with some other people who you are ALSO arguing with. But I forget, you're a perfectly logical, reasonable fellow that understands big words and so you're clearly right here, even though you can't even seem to recall whom you're speaking to and what points they even made. Just sit on that high horse and scream "you're wrong" at anyone you see who challenges you in any way, right?

Oh, but be sure to be REALLY smug and condescending about it and toss around five dollar words you barely understand when you shout them down... because that will make your point, right? You sure showed me.

Vacus2 votes

There are zero circumstances under which I want to listen to random shits talking.

I don't even care if they're not being toxic, I don't want to listen to it.

But this being the League community, if it existed and I disabled it, my teammates would spend more time whining about how I disabled it than they would actually playing the game, and that would be bad.

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

{quoted}

There are zero circumstances under which I want to listen to random shits talking.

I don't even care if they're not being toxic, I don't want to listen to it.

But this being the League community, if it existed and I disabled it, my teammates would spend more time whining about how I disabled it than they would actually playing the game, and that would be bad.

Do people sit in chat all day talking about how you aren't chatting with them in-game?

Vacus2 votes

It's amazing how somehow, it turned out that the OP who badly wanted voice chat is a toxic raging piece of shit.

Who could have possibly predicted this????

Gotei 13 Aizen1 votes

{quoted}

It's amazing how somehow, it turned out that the OP who badly wanted voice chat is a toxic raging piece of shit.

Who could have possibly predicted this????

Except that he's not.

It's amazing how somehow, the side that has all along, pretended to have the moral highground, has in fact resorted to the very thing they claim to stand against.

Who could have possibly predicted this????

Vacus3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gotei 13 Aizen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7Pu73EMd,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-03-28T19:03:38.512+0000)

Except that he's not.

It's amazing how somehow, the side that has all along, pretended to have the moral highground, has in fact resorted to the very thing they claim to stand against.

Who could have possibly predicted this????

I never claimed to have the moral high ground.

My position is not "people might rage at me".

My position is "I don't care if they rage at me, I don't want to talk to you little shits and I don't want you to expect it to be normal".

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