possible way to rework the current mentality of go tank, go carry or go home

3TWarrior··1 votes·581 views

let me explain. as it is, any champ can build a tank build without consequence and if their base damages are high enough, it can turn them into a monster come late game

well, what if we changed that by changing how the items are designed?

Currently, a bruiser (graves , jax or udyr for example) can build multiple items that grant effective stats for other roles (such as tank and carry)

well, what if we changed it so that there are no "hybrid" items except for carries or the off-shoot build on a tougher champions and with that change, increase the base stats of tanks but require that possible carries (such as bruisers) build multiple items to gain a suitable benefit

for example, if we kept the current system where mages, squishy supports and marksmen gain up to 70 armor (special exclusion for graves who should instead now be considered a bruiser), these classes would be required to build damaging items and then a specialized item if they wanted armor or magic resist instead of a generalist item

for instance, thornmail becomes one of the only available armor items for a carry , bruiser or support position (but not a base armor item), that way, champions have to choose between their intended roles and base stats instead of going all-in with bonuses to other roles

let's take a look at the offenders

item 3742 : if we remove the armor or health, it then becomes a specialized item while still providing bonus damage not cheating the role it is intended for but could be used as a potential pick

for instance, if it offers only health, it is more beneficial to tanks with their high base armors and magic resists but does not contribute as much to a bruiser

if it offers only armor, it then becomes a stronger stat for a bruiser (this is probably the better choice) as tanks do like to cling to their targets, but squishier, more damaging bruisers want to output as much damage as possible

item 3156 : this is commonly used by carries. If we remove the magic resist but keep the passive, it becomes less of a goto item for carries but still useful to them and no longer shrugs off damage from opposing mages

item 3053 : if we remove the base health, this becomes a helpful anti-burst item but is mostly balanced by not allowing the carry to gain a stat benefit

these are only a few of the examples, but it would require a complex analyisis of every item for me to explain the concept fully and for a thread that might go ignored by moderators, I figured it might be a beneficial read

the simple version, by changing how stats are distributed, carries become squishy or sacrifice damage to survive; bruisers are tougher than squishies but do not have the base stats to support overwhelming health; Tanks...tanks become a bit monstrous and their base damages and ratios would have to be looked at, but with hybridization changed, if the tank wants to do more damage, they have to sacrifice their much needed health

thoughts or opinions?

I'll post the full length of the poles here

  1. I'm on the right track
  2. LoL needs a better designer than me to improve upon my idea
  3. League is fine as it is
  4. I'm making mistakes of the past
  5. I have no idea what i'm talking about

4 Comments

3TWarrior1 votes

bump...there were no comments

I am Pacman1 votes

By stripping half of the stats of any of these items it mean either

  1. All these items are weak as fuck and there is no sense buying them (assuming we keep cost the same then they aren't gold efficient at all, reduce cost to fit then they are still shitt items then)

  2. You are forced to buff the other half of the item to compensate. This just means that you are gonna have a 1000 hp deadmans plate giving no armor and the brusier immediatly rushing a frozen heart or a thornmail so they don't get blow up by all the damage (that would now be true after penetration) resulting in pretty much the exact same level of tankyness we have now.

Side note: Any tank has to build damage. That is the nature of the game. If a malphite ults your back line or a garen gets to the backline by flanking or nautilus gets to the backline then the adc needs a reason to hit them instead of just walking around. This is a fine line to walk between tanky enough to not die immediatly but still have enough damage to be a threat.

Also if hp/armor/mr is a tank stat and ad or ap is a carry stat then wtf is a bruiser stat?

Deadmans plate IS a bruiser item as it gives them some armor and hp to stay alive to deal damage and the movespeed to splitpush/catch people out that bruisers need to be able to do.

Also titanic is getting a 15 ad nerf on the PBE currently so that might help against yi and fiora buying it but we shall see.

3TWarrior1 votes

I said that champion stats would have to be changed to match their positions and that items would be a lot of work. This isn't an instant fix you know and requires more than the listed 3 items but they were shown as primary offenders in the current meta

bruisers are champs that would have to build full offense or hybrid, thus depending upon their base stats so that they are not always as squishy as a carry but are not unkillable such as the current problem of jax, yi, fiora, etc

A carry could choose to build tank items, but it would just ensure that they don't die immediately and carry items would be better suited (however, it could work for supports or carries with decent crowd control, just not optimally. Think Tank soraka...your healing is bad, your tanking is bad...but you're still tougher to kill and can perform as you intended)

Tanks would more than likely have to be changed to where they have high base values but low scaling so their damage is relevant agains ttheir intended targets but they are countered by opposing tanks and bruisers

I am Pacman1 votes

This would literally result in having to redesign like half of the game for a couple of offenders which are getting nerfed soon anyways. The current itemization is pretty good for just about every role except mages (its okay and at least it works as a placeholder until the ap update).

Also, deadmans isn't an offender anymore. Its been nerfed to its proper place, a viable pick, but not overpowering if you feel like you need waveclear/aoe damage (sunfire) or crit reduction/slow (randuins). When it first came out it was outclassing everything else. Now its in a good spot.

Steraks isn't a problem on bruisers at all. It does its job of stopping burst damage from fed mid laners from killing you instantly. Unfourtunatly it also worked on squishies so it was nerfed. Now squishies still buy it but you can at least get through it. (if it becomes a problem again then they can just give it more sheild based on bonus hp, nerf the static hp again and compensate with price reduction or more ad)

Maw is commonly used by ad assassins and sometimes if fed then bruisers (usually spirit or banshees is better for brusiers though). Ad carries tend to build steraks to mitigate burst. Ad assasins build it because they need it. If they don't have hexdrinker available then they are going to die. Ap has zhoynas to balance it out (based on avoiding damage rather than mitigating it with a shield)

Additionally, tanks already have high base damage and low scaling. Look at malphite (sure that ulti has a nice ap ratio but majority of the time its impactul because of the knockup not the damage). This already incentivises tackiness over damage. Rammus works the same, volibear as well builds full tank and relies on the fact that his base damage and bite will kill you (or just flip and let team do the work) before you kill him.

I don't understand why you want to change these items. They give exactly what you pay gold for. Building full offense is never a good idea because any amount of cc will get you killed (adc and apc can get away with it because they are ranged or at least can deal damage from range), while full defense is a terrible idea because sure you are gonna get to vayne as jax but you sure as hell aint going to kill her. They already build hybrid using hybrid items. These items split the stats between tankyness and damage/utility (black cleaver/sunfire/deadmans/steraks) while keeping relatively steady gold efficiency between the rest of the items.

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