Two Changes I Would Like to See on Kha'Zix

MaizeCraze··40 votes·3,066 views

Hello!

I am uofmman67, and I have been maining Khazix since release. As such, I have been through all the highs and lows with the bug . Hopefully you will take the time to read my two cents on Kha'Zix.

Summary of What I am Posting (tl;dr):

 * Change Q's isolation range to be in the 400-425 range, regardless of whether or not Q is evolved. If needed, damage numbers can be adjusted to compensate.

 *  Revert R's re-stealth time to 1 second from 2, regardless of whether or not R is evolved.

 * Aside from those two main points, I will discuss a few options for evolved R.

For my reasoning and in depth analysis, continue reading.


Taste Their Fear (Q): Back in patch 4.7, Riot increased the radius of isolation to 500 from 350. That amounts to a 42.8% increase. However, isolation is an area. Because the isolation area is a circle, a radius increase of R increases the area of a circle by a factor of R squared. In this case, the range increase of 42.8% increases the area by 104%. That's ludicrous. If Riot wanted to increase isolation by 42.8%, then the radius would be approximately 418.33 units. I would be fine with an isolation radius anywhere from 400-425 (rounding for simplicity).

Void Assault (R): Also in patch 4.7, Riot increased R's re-stealth time to 2 seconds from 1. Their reason for doing so was "As an assassin, Kha'Zix should be looking for windows of opportunity to engage...When assassins can start and end a fight without support, that typically points to an overall lack of tactical weaknesses".

I agree with this balance change. Kha had three two second long 50% damage reduction buffs that he could use with a one second interval between re-casts. 6 seconds of 50% damage reduction while stealthed was not healthy gameplay. The increase of re-stealth time to 2 seconds allowed the enemy team a much bigger window of opportunity to catch the bug if he decided to recklessly engage. This continued to be a problem, however, so in patch 4.9, Riot removed the damage reduction from evolved R completely. The re-stealth time remained the same.

NOW we have a problem. R's re-stealth time was increased solely because the damage reduction present on evolved R lacked counterplay. The damage reduction was removed, so why hasn't the re-stealth time been reverted? There is literally no reason why it should still be two seconds.


Possible (mutually exclusive) changes to evolved Void Assault (R):

  • Instead of having stealth last two seconds up from one, have the movement speed while in stealth increased to 100% from 40%. This means that over two seconds, Kha'Zix travels the same distance (with tier 2 boots), just faster earlier on. Riot originally put a similar change (80% movement speed) on the PBE for patch 4.3, and then they changed it before 4.3 hit on live. This change would allow Kha to be more nimble while chasing or assassinating. This would also, however, allow Kha'zix to escape easier and make it harder to punish him when he jumps into a fight and does not immediately secure a reset.

  • Proposed by Major Trump: Evolved R gives Kha'zix "predator vision", showing all enemy champions within a 1000 or 1200 radius while using a charge of R. Similar to Rengar's, but seeing as Rengar and Khazix are entwined in lore it could make sense for their ults to share a common aspect (e.g. Nasus and Renekton both get health and increased range on ult cast).


If a red happens to drop by (!!), I have two questions that I would appreciate if you answered in a comment to this post.

  1. When the balance team changed Q's isolation radius, did they intend to increase the isolation area by 104%?
  2. What reason(s), if any, justify Kha'Zix having a re-stealth time of two seconds on Void Assault?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post about our favorite jungling bug,Khazix . Feel free to discuss (encouraged!), propose other changes, and upvote for visibility.

47 Comments

Drakylon4 votes

I'd like to see a slightly improved animation on his Unseen Threat autoattack. Currently it feels quite a bit slower than his normal auto, and is often simply cancelled by any other action. Considering his quick skirmishing style, a randomly long animation seems awkward.

MaizeCraze1 votes

Agreed. A faster cast time would be a nice quality of life buff.

Nice icon by the way.

Virgin Ray1 votes

Well the long animation is fine, I think it should be faster when you evolve the Q claws and more dmg with the passive. I mean you have sharper claws, it makes sense to make it more dmg, and when you evolve you do things faster, so it should have a faster animation.

Dreadlocks3 votes

You forgot to mention the %HP he did with his Q.. I think it is important to note this because that damage on top of the 350 radius was pretty huge... if we are NOT going to give the %HP back then why cant we go back to 350? With that being said.. if we DO go back to the %HP we could probably stay at 500...

edit: also i like the changes you have here for his R, reminds me a lot of what they did with Akali's W

MaizeCraze1 votes

I purposely didn't add that because to me, at least, Kha is an assassin who goes after the squishies more than the tanks. With % max HP on evolved Q, a large portion of Kha'Zix players built him as a tanky bruiser, which is how Riot saw him when they implemented the 4.7 and 4.9 patches. Now that Kha is not viable as a tanky bruiser, his overnerfed kit for an assassin is easily seen if you play a game as Him. I guess what I'm trying to say is I would rather have Kha be a sneaky assassin and not a bruiser.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Forsure, I agree.. I just think it is something that really hurt his damage in general. That being said I think 350 Range without it is still very fair...

MaizeCraze1 votes

The only issue with 350 is that Kha's evolved Q has a range of 375. Essentially Kha could stand outside the radius of isolation, say with enemy ranged minions, and still be able to Q the enemy for islolation damage if they strayed too close. That was a frequent occurrence in lane, and that attributed to his high ban rates in seasons 3 and early-mid 4.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Correct me if im wrong, as I didnt play back in season 3.. but wasn't there a period of time when minions and turrets didn't affect isolation?

MaizeCraze1 votes

During season 3 and up to patch 4.7, turrets weren't considered allies, but minions have always been considered allies since Kha's release in September of 2012.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Oh alright. Makes sense then. I hope your ideas go through. I use to main Khazix wen i started this game but ive sucked every game since pre-season 5 with him lol.

Condottiero1 votes

{quoted}

Correct me if im wrong, as I didnt play back in season 3.. but wasn't there a period of time when minions and turrets didn't affect isolation?

Only turrets.

grLKQ9ma0o3 votes

Having also played Kha'zix for a long time, I agree with some of what you're suggesting.

My only issue is that it doesn't give him what I feel like he actually needs.

His R and W evolutions are pretty useless at this point. His Q is necessary for damage, and his E is necessary for the resets, but his W and R give him nothing he needs immediately.

His W was only taken first late in season 4 because of the 50% slow that gave him ganking power earlier. His R gives him absolutely nothing he needs.

IMO, the evolutions need to be given some sort of synergistic utility. Instead of a flat lowering of isolation range, make his evolved W lower the isolation radius on champions it hits by 100-125 range. Towers also should not count against isolation. You are there to protect the tower, not the other way around.

Give his evolvedr R something useful, as well. My thought has been, what if it gave Kha'zix "predator vision", showing all enemy champions within a 1000 or 1200 radius? It actually might be of use to him and his team if he evolved it then.

Just make some of the evolutions actually worth something. You can only have 3 of the 4, so you should have to make an actual choice about it that matters.

MaizeCraze1 votes

So a few things.

I definitely agree that R and W evolutions are outclassed by Q and E. There really isn't anything save a full rework that will change that. What can be done is make the order of evolutions vary based on the in-game situation.

The first time that W was evolved first about 100% of the time was in early season 3 because it applied Unseen Threat on hit. Back then, Kha was more commonly seen mid or top lane instead of in the jungle (top lane Kha main represent!). After patch 3.8, Kha shifted more to a jungle role and players tended to evolve E first.

While having evolutions give some sort of synergistic utility seems like a good idea on paper, in practice it could be very messy and gating. Your proposed change would make taking E less of a priority for damage, but that would significantly hurt Kha's teamfight. If E is taken instead of W at 11, Kha's teamfight is the same as it is live, which is poor.

Technically, isolation is defined as how far away an enemy is from any of their allies. I consider an ally anyone or anything that has a goal of destroying the enemy nexus and preventing the enemies from destroying yours. Since towers are there to halt minion and champion advances in lane, they fall under the ally category. I have a feeling that Riot sees towers this way as well--that's why they counted them as allies in patch 4.7.

The proposed ult change is interesting. Similar to Rengar's, but seeing as they are entwined in lore it could make sense for their abilities to share a common aspect (e.g. Nasus and Renekton both get health on ult cast). I'll add it to the list of proposals.

grLKQ9ma0o1 votes

Thanks for the shoutout.

I guess the reasoning I had behind the W evolution is that it forces you to make a choice. Players will never NOT take the E evolution. It's just too strong with the resets. It will probably always be taken either 1st or 2nd. If my idea on W were introduced, it would likely be taken first over anything else, simply because it would give him better utility to gank lanes and such. Q would be taken later, forestalling his damage. This is the inherent problem with Kha'zix, however. Because of his design and the method with which his damage functions, you either snowball through getting ahead and taking damage (Q-E-W/R evolution path), or you take the utility and get the rest of your team ahead (W-E-Q path). One will always be stronger than the other one. That has been true since his very inception (with the exception of tank Kha'zix and the R evolution priority).

I understand the inherent problem with synergistic abilities in this manner, because it's hard to make synergy without reliance.

The dichotomy with Kha'zix is that his damaging abilities and his mobility abilities function completely separately. Increasing the power of W prioritizes it over Q. Increasing the power of R too much prioritizes it over E. They aren't different enough to really change how it works.

Especially now that Q only has squishy-deleting damage (read: no % health), Q is probably a necessary evolution, at least at level 16. He just deals no damage without it. Unless they amplify his damage through something other than evolved Q, he's going to need it.

I would love to see it where he doesn't rely completely on any evolution, while they all enhance each other. I don't know the perfect answer to that.

MaizeCraze1 votes

I would love to see it where he doesn't rely completely on any evolution, while they all enhance each other. I don't know the perfect answer to that.

That would be a great end goal. I also do not know the answer to that.

If Riot was to change around Kha's evolutions, I think they would stick to mutually exclusive evolutions just because making a champion that mechanically complex would be painful and bug ridden. Personally, I would be okay with that as long as Kha doesn't rely completely on any one evolution. I think we are in agreement that that is the biggest issue currently.

grLKQ9ma0o1 votes

Well, the problem with mutually exclusive evolutions is simply that they have to be too situational to be worth it, otherwise they become a necessity, a la evolved R with damage reduction or evolved W with passive proc.

Elisai2 votes

Hm... It's been a while since I've seen an actual serious good post about Balence and Gameplay. Thank you personally for this xD. I support this Kha'Zix Change. Except his q's damage would have to be slightly nerfed if this would be acceptable to me.

MaizeCraze1 votes

Good point. I'll edit that in

CubedJustice1 votes

I've said this before, but I honestly think that his ult is in a good place. Perhaps the restealth time could be lowered, but as a skill, it's versatile and useful. His isolation, however, sucks.

MaizeCraze1 votes

Evolved ult or ult in general?

CubedJustice1 votes

Both. Clearly, one is better than the other, as that's how it works, but I think that the idea behind his ult is good.

MaizeCraze1 votes

I think the functionality is fine. The only thing that needs to be changed in my opinion is the re-stealth time. It would add versitility back to Kha's ult that has been lost.

SouL1ess1 votes

For evolved R,

Doubling the percentile movement speed bonus while halving the duration is a nerf to mobility because of movement speed soft cap.

It's better to have 40% bonus for 2 seconds and I would prefer the current version. However, the recast time is definitely stupid. It even increases to 4 seconds when you evolve R (and only gets a 1 second CDR if you attack something). Right now it's insane to evolve something that gives you a detrimental effect on your ult.

MaizeCraze3 votes

Are you saying that cooldowns between ults increase to four seconds when R is evolved, and that attacking something reduces the re-stealth cool down by one second???

Good point on the movement speed cap. The idea is that you travel the same distance over two seconds, just faster earlier. I changed the proposed ult to double the movement speed so the distance traveled by the proposal is essentially the same distance traveled currently. (1020 proposed vs 1016 current , a 97.6% increase makes them equivalent).

SouL1ess1 votes

Are you saying that casts between ults increases to four seconds when R is evolved, and that attacking something reduces the re-stealth cool down by one second???

It's how it works on live server, last time I played Khazix this patch.

Edit: Well, I did play him on URF instead of SR. But it definitely wasn't a 2 second recast time. The recast timer began at 4 seconds and if I use it to escape, I needed to wait 2 seconds in between stealths. If I attack someone, the cooldown reduces to 3 seconds; still a 1 second recast delay between stealths.

MaizeCraze1 votes

The timer starts at 4 and counts the two seconds of stealth. Thus, there is a two second re-stealth timer. When you attack someone, it breaks stealth. This reduces the timer to a cooldown of two. Thus, there is still a two second re-stealth timer regardless of whether or not R is evolved. I just tested this on SR.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

my one change that i would like to see on kha zix and the one that would realy benefit his ballance

change his evolutions so he actualy adapts instead of upggrading hiumself as a generalist

if he adapts aka just choses better toolds for the job, he is fine, ofc he cant be able to equip asrsenal big enough to counter everyone

but if its like it is now then he just upgrades himself, this causes loads of counteplay problems and riot wrecks him for that

grLKQ9ma0o1 votes

Well, I mean, they kinda have to keep the same ability ideas. It's the same as Viktor. It IS meant to just be an upgrade.

My big problems with that idea is that his Q can be upgraded, but the extra damage is only effective in isolation. It gives him 50 extra range, too, but that's not helpful enough to really give him what he needs.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

Well, I mean, they kinda have to keep the same ability ideas. It's the same as Viktor. It IS meant to just be an upgrade.

well the thing is that its not like that

viktor is just upgrading himself, his kit has its flaws and they still remain after upgrades, so in the end he gets power in his areas without realy changing anything about him

but kha zix ? he is 100% diferent, his evolutions are meant to change his gameplay so he can be more effective vs diferent opponents, the thing is that in the current version of the game kha zix just evolwes into a generalist with low counterplay, thats why i think he gets the nerfbat so often, because his kit is naturaly opressive for anything that walks

maybe if his evolutiuons would have some drawbacks to them, so he gets better in certain situations but creates some field for enemy to fight on, im not sure

Poptart Evelynn1 votes

Uhh I do you not max cdr and use 2*(Meant 2) second stealth to re use q on each rotation?

MaizeCraze1 votes

3 second stealth? Also, the re-stealth period of 2 seconds is unaffected by CDR.

Synx71 votes

Looking forward to these changes.. Kha is trash right now and he was one of my favorite champions. If riot would ever notice.. Currently we have 20 more heal on his W on PBE. summoner 3

MaizeCraze1 votes

That is more of a jungle sustain update than a pass at balance. Kha's current first clear is arguablly the worst in the entire game.

thePandev1 votes

I cannot stress how annoying deleting his mid air EW combo was. Has costed me so many kills because I have to either offload my W before I jump (Giving it shorter range then if I could fire it mid air) or after (People usually flash out when they see you jump). Played a great part in his kit's overall flexibility, now he feels so stiff.

MaizeCraze1 votes

To be fair, being able to land a slow plus massive damage via evolved W comfortably from 1500 range (the theoretical max with evolved E was 1900, 1600 without) was some serious bullshit. If Riot were to make W cast-able while mid air again, it would have to function like mini Gnar 's Q cast while hopping. The Q starts at the spot on the ground where Gnar initially casts hop and not where he is when Q is casted.

Nice icon by the way.

thePandev1 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, being able to land a slow plus massive damage via evolved W comfortably from 1500 range (the theoretical max with evolved E was 1900, 1600 without) was some serious bullshit. If Riot were to make W cast-able while mid air again, it would have to function like mini Gnar 's Q cast while hopping. The Q starts at the spot on the ground where Gnar initially casts hop and not where he is when Q is casted.

Nice icon by the way.

Hue hue thank you. But yeah, it was funny sniping people from stupid ranges haha

Stitches is king1 votes

Stop crying, atleast they dident **** Khazix up and chanced almost every good thing about him like they did to Rengar Splitpushing gone, truly assasin with ult gone, bushes gone, early power inv gone cuz of the jungle chances.

Synx71 votes

"" atleast they dident ** Khazix up and chanced almost every good thing about him ""

They actually did that. Whats ur point?

MaizeCraze1 votes

I'm not going to take the time to make a rebuttal for this argument. If you want to have a logical discussion, then reply with probable scenarios, damage numbers, etc.

metaworldpeace101 votes

I really like the new proposed changes to the Evolved R. As it stands right now, the Evolved R is really bad and needs some small QoL buffs. I'd also like to see a %HP dmg on his Q, that would give him a little bit more reliable assassination power, rather than hoping and praying some idiot is within isolation range.

MaizeCraze1 votes

Standard Q, evolved Q, or both? And would it apply only if isolated?

Before patch 4.9, evolved Q did % max HP (6%) when the target was not isolated. This damage was amplified by 45% (total 8.7%) if the target was isolated.

grLKQ9ma0o1 votes

Oh I just thought of something else.

Can isolation please be calculated on cast, not on-hit? It's frustrating because if the animation gets far enough, they can flash away and still get hit, but it does like 500-600 less damage late game. That's pretty significant damage for a window only hundredths of a second long.

MaizeCraze1 votes

From what I've read on the boards about Kha, that seems to be a common grievance. It would be nice to see that change because it happens pretty frequently. However, I think if the isolation range was lowered, this would be much less of an issue because most of the cases where this event occurs is when the enemy is just barely isolated when Kha jumps in.

grLKQ9ma0o1 votes

It would still happen. Probably more often, because the distance they have to flash will be shorter.

MaizeCraze1 votes

if the isolation range is shorter, the enemy will have to travel farther to be in range of an ally. Thus, if the enemy flashes and then had an ally that was 450 units away, currently they would not take isolation damage vs with the proposed change they would.

grLKQ9ma0o1 votes

You're right, I said that backwards. Even so, it's still a problem because it can totally ruin the play of the Kha'zix player. If it was enough time where they could actually do it intentionally, I might understand leaving it in as a strategic element of defense, but you can't really anticipate it.

Synx71 votes

I don't usually do this but.. Bump. This needs to get attention

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