Gangplank Needs One Minor QOL buff

MaizeCraze·Apr 20, 2015·51 votes·2,685 views

Gangplank's E has a cast time, making the skill feel rather clunky. This is especially noticeable when you have (or any other homeguard enchantment) and cast E when running out of base.

Thematically, he is shooting a pistol in the air---why does he have to stand still to do that?

Back in September of 2012 (championship hotfix patch), Riot removed the cast time on Rengar's W for the same reason---it felt clunky, making chasing down a champion harder than intended. In case you want to see Riot's exact context, here is the patch overview. Start at 0:52.

So...can Raise Morale's cast time be removed? It would make for smoother skill usage and more reliable chase/escape potential.

Edit: I know that a GP rework is in the works; however, this is in very early stages and, according to Meddler, probably won't be seen until Season 6.

38 Comments

Darth ValerApr 20, 20156 votes

I don't think this will happen since he's getting reworked and probably his E will be completely changed. It would really help, though, for current GP.

Fried NoobApr 20, 20153 votes

Honestly, it would make sense to do this. However, Riot is planning on a rework for Gangplank in the future, so it's unlikely (though not impossible) that he'll receive any buffs or QoL changes until that time.

Remlap1223Apr 20, 20151 votes

What are you talking about? Basically Riot starts changing numbers around on champs that they hate once their reworks are coming around the corner. It's their way of saying "IT'S HAPPENING!" Gangplank got his ultimate changed, Darius got his ultimate changed, and sure enough, who's next on the list this year to get reworked? Gangplank and Poppy. The only reason they're not buffing Poppy is because they literally can't. Poppy is absolute cancer to face post-6, and any buff would probably result in her getting nerfed into the ground.

DrCyanideApr 20, 201513 votes

Urgot's getting a rework too, but they still improved his existing Q and W in the meantime.

JamnonApr 21, 20153 votes

Urgot did. (got mana scaling on his shield) No reason Gangplank couldn't.

Demonic KhanApr 22, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fried Noob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nEWttX4p,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-20T15:46:42.062+0000)

Honestly, it would make sense to do this. However, Riot is planning on a rework for Gangplank in the future, so it's unlikely (though not impossible) that he'll receive any buffs or QoL changes until that time.

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MaizeCrazeApr 22, 20152 votes

Nice icon btw.

HawkefireApr 20, 20153 votes

Been suggested hundreds of times, I am not sure why Riot wont do it simply so we have something to tide us over till the rework.

MaizeCrazeApr 20, 20153 votes

Yeah, I've actually posted about this exact issue before, haha. My bankplank games would be much more enjoyable if Riot implemented this change.

Remlap1223Apr 20, 20153 votes

Honestly, if they do do this, I hope it's something that they keep after the rework. Not talking about raise morale specifically, that's pretty much been confirmed to be axed by Riot alongside his passive (rest easy, he's still going eat oranges and be k, and carpet bomb people across the map). A complete removal of the movement penalty on all of his abilities (like Syndra ) would be a great way to give Gangplank some sticking power that will definitely take a hit once his passive and E go. I hope they give him a gap closer to compensate too, but that would be a good start.

Dunkrius2gApr 20, 20153 votes

He needs it. Anything tbh. Its not like he will be SUPER OP. Riot pls

Silents429Apr 21, 20152 votes

Can't put to words what I thought when I actually died from trying to use it to help my escape. Or catch up with someone.

Phoenix Kotori Apr 20, 20151 votes

Cause this skill boosts your MS, Rengar's w doesn't do that and this would be a straight buff not a QoL chance, it's clearly enhancing the champion not adding clarity to gameplay.

And riot said they felt removing it in the current state would lead to GP becoming a "problem" and thus getting nerfed.

DrCyanideApr 20, 20155 votes

Is there another champion with a move speed boost that has a cast time that we can compare Gangplank's too?

Unless I'm forgetting something, not a single move speed granting ability requires the user to stop before getting the speed boost.

Phoenix Kotori Apr 20, 20151 votes

I am pretty sure Sivir ult has a brief cast time.

And most movement speed buffs don't passively give you speed and make your team faster.

And still the point is this isn't QoL, it's adding power.

MaizeCrazeApr 20, 20152 votes

I said it below (you probably read it, you downvoted the comment), and I will say it here.

A Quality of Life improvement makes the champion's ability stronger (adding power); therefore, by definition it is a buff.

Phoenix Kotori Apr 20, 20152 votes

A Quality of Life improvement makes the champion's ability stronger (adding power); therefore, by definition it is a buff.

Again no they don't QoL puts clarity in game play, makes power less restrictive to access, put information in more understandable way to the play, making things more intuitive to uses, making hidden power more apparent for the player to use, and etc.

What you're describing is a minor buff, not a QoL change. And people asking for a buff and trying to call it "QoL" is one of my pet peeves.

DrCyanideApr 20, 20156 votes

Just looking at a few clips of Sivir using her ult, it doesn't look like she stops when she uses it.

The problem I have with Gangplank's E right now is that I get into situations where I'm running away at low health where I don't want to use my move speed boost for fear I'll die while casting it. There have similarly been times where I'm chasing a kill and they're getting close to their tower and I don't want to use it for fear they'll get away if I do.

As for QoL, Riot has used the term in two ways:

This isn't to say she's exempt from further tweaks in the future, but forcing the issue on anything other than quality-of-life changes could very likely cause more problems than it would fix.

Katarina doesn't attack faster, just finishes her attacks faster. No net change, just a nice little touch.

More of a quality of life change, Varus players should feel encouraged to charge their arrows instead of feeling penalized.

Riot uses the term for making Varus's cooldown start faster. According to you, this is adding power to his Q (more Q's in a given time), but according to Riot it's just Quality of Life changes.

I'd consider this a Quality of Life change similar to Varus's Q Quality of Life change. No vast power increase because Gangplank can move an extra 200ish units while it's casting, just a nice little improvement to make him feel less clunky.

HawkefireApr 22, 20151 votes

Trundle is about the only one that I can think of.

MaizeCrazeApr 20, 20152 votes

Rengar's W increases your armor and magic resist on champion hit or large monster hit. What other ability in season 2 that granted armor and MR required the champion to stop before getting the boost?

Also, a Quality of Life improvement makes the champion's ability stronger; therefore, by definition it is a buff.

Can you link the post in which Riot said that about GP?

Phoenix Kotori Apr 20, 20152 votes

No this isn't QoL. QoL is adding claritying to game play not power.

This thread on Skarner is a great example of a suggestion for QoL change. It doesn't buff him in anyway it simply adds clarity to his game play.

Can you link the post in which Riot said that about GP?

I am struggling to find it was on the old forum and riot removed redpost tracking there, so even if I find the thread, finding the post is near impossible :/.

MaizeCrazeApr 20, 20151 votes

Based on your definition above, would you then not consider the buff to Rengar in September of 2012 QOL?

I've read the Skarner post, and one comment says this would be great because it allows him to use skills to stack passive at the appropriate time. As such, this gives him more power (he can stun opponents more reliably).

Again, any QoL change is technically a buff. On the Skarner post is this comment which says basically the same thing I am.

Phoenix Kotori Apr 20, 20151 votes

Rengar thing was a buff no questions, imo.

It doesn't add power, the power is already there, it's just annoying for access for skarner (there is a debuff icon on them showing the stun immunity) so not every player will realize that while people who've played him awhile know to look for it, so it effectively doesn't improve skarner's best case, it just makes knowledge for his best more accessible and easier to read in team fights.

MaizeCrazeApr 20, 20151 votes

Knowledge is power.

doubleguacApr 21, 20152 votes

QoL often just refers to minor buffs that target usability rather than numbers. This would be a usability buff. The Rengar buff we're comparing it to didn't add clarity either--it was a usability buff.

I love GP (he was my most played by a wide margin last ranked season). I think he's in an ok spot, but his E is incredibly awkward. In quick lane trades, you'll often lose damage by casting E, since it can cost you an auto attack. The cast time also pretty much negates the MS boost when it comes to chasing.

The ability isn't bad by any means. The MS boost is nice in team fights, and 120 total free AD for your team is nothing to scoff at, particularly when it comes to taking objectives. But removing the cast time would make it a lot less frustrating to use. And I seriously doubt it would result in GP becoming overpowered. I'm the first to admit that GP's kit is pretty low in counterplay, but that has everything to do with his passive, Q, and W, not his E.

CerbearusApr 21, 20151 votes

They did the same thing to Sivir ult, made her god tier for a while.

MaizeCrazeApr 21, 20151 votes

No, the rework that was not tested properly made her god tier. While the removal of cast time was part of the rework, it was certainly not the issue.

Ronnie LawApr 21, 20151 votes

I actually think it is more balanced right now. I play ALOT of GP, he is probably my favorite champ.

However, his E is an extremely powerful ability.

The passive component and its value should not be discounted.

Often times when I am being chased I cannot hit my E or I have to REALLY think about it, because of the cast time. If there were no cast time, then there would be no choice to using the ability. The offset would be to remove the cast time but to also up the mana cost. And fuck that.

GP is mana hungry as it is. His W is the same way, often times you REALLY want to heal, but you cannot afford the cast time. This means you have to have more awareness and be concerned with exactly how far away certain champs are.

Personally, I see no reason to make GP any more slippery than he already is. The passive move speed boost in conjunction with a boot enchant makes him hard to catch out of position.

His E is best reserved for engages or to reposition your team.

MaizeCrazeApr 21, 20151 votes

If there were no cast time, then there would be no choice to using the ability.

I disagree.

When the active is used, GP has a time frame of 8-13 seconds (depending on CDR) in which E's passive bonuses are disabled. The choice is then whether or not the pros outweigh the cons in the present scenario.

Increasing the reliability of E allows GP to make decisions that aren't based on whether or not a mechanical hindrance will negatively impact the outcome.

GP is mana hungry as it is.

This is an easy fix . Both item 3004 and item 3508 have great synergy on GP in addition to eliminating his mana problems.

His W is the same way, often times you REALLY want to heal, but you cannot afford the cast time.

Most of the time, W should be used either while you are cc'd or safe from champions. When you are not near a champion, there is no repercussion for casting W. When you are cc'd, the cast time is irrelevant because you are shortening the time that you are disabled, which is a net gain of mobility.

Ronnie LawApr 21, 20151 votes

What you are describing is how Taric's shatter used to work. It doesn't work that way anymore. GP's E does not, has not, and never did work that way. You get the passive bonus no matter what, even if the ability is on CD.

The way it is worded is confusing. But you will always get the passive stats at a minimum, whether the ability is on CD, of CD or active in any way. If it is active, you gain an additional boost on top of the passive boost.

I suggest you actually take some time and play GP. The limitation of his E is not hard to work around, and I stand by my assertion that it is fine the way it is. It gates the up/down time based on player choice on how to optimize. If it were not gated by a cast speed, there would be no real down side to using it.

Another way of looking at it is that the way the ability works now, it is generally used in preparation for an action.

Running away, initiating, taking a turret, whatever. You use E and THEN go do something with it.

Without a cast time, it just statballs any fight you get into without any negative action. You would just use it whenever is most advantageous, even if this is simply reactionary. The way it is now, it is not a reactionary ability.

The reason I don't like the statball way you are proposing is that inevitably, for the sake of balance, it would be compensated for elsewhere in his kit, perhaps similar to how blitzcranks move speed steroid was recently adjusted.

It doesn't really suit the health of the champion.

MaizeCrazeApr 21, 20151 votes

Do yourself a favor and read GP's wiki page. In case you don't I will sum it up for you.

"ACTIVE: Gangplank fires into the air, disabling his passive boost but inspiring himself to gain additional attack damage and movement speed for 7 seconds, with allied champions within range receiving half that amount." In other words, he loses his passive bonuses when he uses his E.

Once again. There is a downside for using E. He loses his passive bonuses.

Ronnie LawApr 22, 20151 votes

You are an idiot. His passive is "lost" only while the active is active. When the effect ends, it picks back up.

Therefor, it is never actually "lost".

I know you won't understand simple math but that's ok, I can still make you look like a jackass.

Passively, GPs move speed is +X. Actively, GPs move speed is +X +Y. On cooldown, GPs move speed is still +X.

He never loses +X, EVER. Whether the ability is on cooldown it is always AT LEAST +X.

This is what I meant when I said that it is written weird.

Thus, the way it should read is that PASSIVELY GP gains X move speed. On use, he ADDITIONALLY gains Y. This would clear up the confusion for retards like you that cannot understand math.

MaizeCrazeApr 22, 20151 votes

I'm not going to contribute to this flame war; I will, however, defend my math capabilities. When you learn multivariable calculus and differential equations, come explain to me how you can evaluate a triple integral or solve a 4th degree differential equation.

Ronnie LawApr 22, 20151 votes

The same way you evaluate a double integral or a 2nd degree differential.

Do you like apples?

MaizeCrazeApr 22, 20151 votes

Honeycrisps are my favorite, you? And it is my mistake on GP's E, you are correct that he does not lose his passive bonuses.

Ronnie LawApr 22, 20151 votes

If it makes you feel better, I would agree that it would need a remove of the cast channel IF he did indeed lose the passive.

The reason being, most abilities do nothing when they are on CD. GPs E is an exception to this.

It is always doing something for you. Because of that, you are always "using" it. The actual use is just a "turbo" version.

Because of this, it doesn't compare directly to most abilities, and it doesn't JUST boost move speed. It also boosts AD, and is an aura that affects team mates.

If it were a Wuju Style type ability, I could see a case for removing the channel. As is, the ability is diverse enough to require a gate that limits the usage, and the channel works pretty well.

As I said before, if you remove that, the ability gains a little too much, and the compensation SHOULD come from elsewhere.

It seems like a small change, but really, it isn't. It makes gangplank very slippery and removes almost all the risk from using the ability. And that in and of itself is not all that bad. But GP is already a statball champ, who's main advantage is that he makes use of nearly every stat and does well when he just flat out has MORE stats than whoever he is fighting. His E steroids him into even more statball, and either that needs to come at some sort of cost, or the end effect itself needs to be reduced.

The problem with that, is that then you hurt his major advantage, his stats. Thus, the champion himself really just becomes homogenized and I don't think that is really healthy.

Also, as an aside, I would like to point out that it is contradictory to use an ability called Raise Morale to run away from a fight.