Does riot think that giving Veigar more AP to stack will fix his gameplay?

Fischen··6 votes·1,950 views

I have been playing veigar for years now and I like that Riot is giving some attention to the little guy because he needs it, but I am concerned that Riot thinks that he only needs to be able to stack AP. To keep it short I see three big issues with the way Riot views Veigar.

  1. Veigar has always been a late game scaling monster with the ability to/almost one shot someone but let me be clear this is not something that happens very often. In an earlier post from a rioter about the MYMU they stated that no one likes it when Veigar can flash and one shot you. That view point is such and extreme case that it makes no sense. To get to that point you need to farm for 40-50 mins and get near 1K AP and to be honest by that point why shouldn't he be able to one shot you? Does anyone complain that Nasus can farm and almost one shot you with a Q not really cause they see that he has farmed. The second part is bringing up the example of flash ulting is such a bad example because that is just a terrible way to look at a champion in a balance sense. A lot of champions in league can burst down targets if they get onto them. Lissandra can in one combo almost do that but are we nerfing her because she has the ability to flash on them? No we are not.

  2. This leads into my next point though I see where riot are going with Veigar and I look at it like Koggles. In the recent patch they wanted to curve his power so its not lose early wreck late. I think you are trying to shift power for him as well so he isnt the worst laner early on and isnt the most oppressive champ later as well. I see what you are doing with Veigar with making his ult more of a traditional execute as opposed to a big burst execute. I dont have an issue with this but my main concern is that his new passive isnt going to help him survive the early game any better. Is the damage you are losing on the ult equal out to the the AP you get with your passive? I spend most of my laning phase farming and ignoring the other champion because it more beneficial for me to farm and get big then worry about the other champs. I look at it like this would you rather waste the mana and cd of your Q to try and poke a champion to get one AP maybe if you hit them or hit one or two minions get more AP and gold along with it? I am also being serious that landing your W on a champ in lane is impossible without the use of your E so are you going to waste more mana and Cd's trying to get a few extra AP when you might leave yourself open to get engaged on?

  3. My third issue is that Veigar never had an issue with stacking AP. After the rework he was able to do it so well that it made him better but at this point I dont understand why you want to give him more ways to stack AP. He doesnt need it he needs a way to have a healthier early game. If you are curving power from his Ult so he cant one shot you which I will say again rarely happens you need to make him do better in the early game. Giving him a passive to stack more doesnt make is already sub par laning phase better. He needs something to be him more survivable in the early game to offset the ult not being as bursty as it used to be.

This is what I think and I would love to hear what you think not only from Rioters but from people as well the more the better. I dont want to see veigar go through another period of being sub par. - Fischen

13 Comments

BerserkGoldfish2 votes

ya know? I never understood the hate towards mages being bursty, like Draven 2 shotting someone due to random RNG is okay, Khazix being able to do 1.5k damage in a matter of how fast they can go ewq(hydra) is acceptable, both innate things you really cant do much about other than avoid them, in his current state Veigar can only 1 shot you if you say "screw defenses, I need to be the only one doing any damage" like oh, I'm a mage, I only build AP, well, that's cool and all but they could easily just not lose to veigar by itemizing item 3001 item 3174 item 3157 are all oddly effective vs veig as an ap, ad have item 3156 and item 3139 with merc scim also offering a cleanse from his stun. Speaking of cleanse try taking summoner 1 , hes not sustaining, hes veigar. Its like due to dynamic queue people seem to forget that pick counters and itemization exist (at least in the swamp I play in.)

Fischen2 votes

{quoted}

ya know? I never understood the hate towards mages being bursty, like Draven 2 shotting someone due to random RNG is okay, Khazix being able to do 1.5k damage in a matter of how fast they can go ewq(hydra) is acceptable, both innate things you really cant do much about other than avoid them, in his current state Veigar can only 1 shot you if you say "screw defenses, I need to be the only one doing any damage" like oh, I'm a mage, I only build AP, well, that's cool and all but they could easily just not lose to veigar by itemizing item 3001 item 3174 item 3157 are all oddly effective vs veig as an ap, ad have item 3156 and item 3139 with merc scim also offering a cleanse from his stun. Speaking of cleanse try taking summoner 1 , hes not sustaining, hes veigar. Its like due to dynamic queue people seem to forget that pick counters and itemization exist (at least in the swamp I play in.)

Thank you someone sees how hard it really is to actually one shot someone

Sneakyy XD2 votes

It's not just about giving him more ability power. It's about letting him use abilities on his opponents without being punished for not using his Q on minions. It's also likely he will be able to build other items that weren't usable before.

I suggested this for Nasus a while ago (or I at least have been going over the idea in my head for a while), too, where killing a minion would still give (reduced) stacks, but so would simply dealing damage to an enemy champion with is Q.

Horse Grenades1 votes

Buff him if you want, but point-n-click one shots will NEVERRR be ok

Fischen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xzrqtMtg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-20T19:47:09.422+0000)

Buff him if you want, but point-n-click one shots will NEVERRR be ok

I get that and trust me I have done those before but people are over doing how often it really happens. You need to farm for so long to get to that point and you need to get very close to use your ult anyways. While point and click one shots are bad from a game play perspective everyone over does how often it happens. It so rare for that to happen and hard as well.

Horse Grenades1 votes

I understand that, but even point and click 80% of your hp is unhealthy. I mean it doesn't have to be a pure "one shot" to eliminate you from the fight.

Meep Man1 votes

I think the ultimate change is the biggest thing for him. Also, the Veigar ultimate is a actually a little more bursty early game actually since the max damage it can do, especially when using it to kill, is a LOT more with the 150% AP Ratio and 350 base damage.

Senate1 votes

Honestly, I understand why people are upset that his new ult doesn't define him as 'the anti-mage', but I really don't care. I agree with you, since before bursting down a champion was usually waiting until they had gotten a few AP items before bothering with the ult. Now, there's a lot more flexibility on using it.

BerserkGoldfish1 votes

oh yeah, under 50% hp its an instakill anyway, I still see him bursting people in a second but instead of flash r dead leblanc, ittle be q>auto>r>thunderlord proc

Hinata Rabbit1 votes

at that point in the game hed most likely one shot her if he landed the Q regardless of auto TL. Q alone will bring her close to half around the 25 minute mark where veigars average ap is around 150-200 more than live.

the average 30minute veigar in 6.9 can rack up to 1500 ap making his ulti on champions with 33% or less ap do roughly 3k damage. that would destroy even a tank.

Big Lincoln1 votes

the changes make him more interactive and reward him with more AP gains for doing stuff like trading and landing his spells

Huge buff to support playstyles and a definite benefit to Veigar when playing from behind, now that he can gain more AP on average for participating in teamfights

Linna Excel1 votes

So he's keeping that annoying stun and he's getting more AP? Better ban veigar.

Hinata Rabbit1 votes

Except that buying Tear gives you free sustain. the mana costs have been reduced by 20/10/10/25 iirc (Q/W/E/R) at all ranks and going tear/morello is really REALLY strong on veigar in 6.9. Veigar is now gets stronger as fights are happening even if no one dies hes gained power which is infinity stronger than his current passive.

With that in mind he is designed to be much more active in lane than just a farm bot which is not a bad thing. previously enemys (assassins especially) would zone you from farm and try to make you waste a Q to counter harras with the worst outcome being they take miniscule damage and you lose on precious farm/ap while your Q is on CD. now your opponent has tothink twice about doing that as you now gain free permanent damage just from tagging them as they try to walk up to you. and now Q- hitting a minion into an enemy gives you 2 ap and also doesnt push the wave farm from your turret while dealing harras damage. its a win win

that being said youll definitely have to play much smarter and much more active than a farm bot which im happy about. especially since the average ap for an active veigar at 35 minutes is roughly 1500 which is insane

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