Are meta champs overated?

Ultimate Deadpoo·Jul 30, 2016·1 votes·710 views

Personally, I never understood why people swear by what is meta and what is not meta so much at all. This is true especially in pro play and honestly it makes champions that honestly are good, reliable, and powerful go on the way side to champions that are meta. Plus, all meta is just what overall we consider to be the best choices, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily going to be the best champion for a certain play style. I love playing champions that I consider really strong but no one else really does, them being Warwick, Shyvana, and Nocturne, and I make them work, even against meta champions. So in my opinion, you are better off playing champions you enjoy and are good with than what everyone else consider "good".

19 Comments

NinjaGuy69Jul 30, 20162 votes

Whether we like it or not, there's always going to be a meta. That meta changes depending on which champs, items and objectives provide the most value. At the same time though, I believe that any player that's playing a non-meta champ can outplay a player that's playing a meta champ if that player if more mechanically skilled and has more game knowledge than the person playing the broken champ. The meta is just a result of constant balance changes and additions that are made to the game so instead of questioning it, we should understand it and be able to play with it (or around it).

Ultimate DeadpooJul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Whether we like it or not, there's always going to be a meta. That meta changes depending on which champs, items and objectives provide the most value. At the same time though, I believe that any player that's playing a non-meta champ can outplay a player that's playing a meta champ if that player if more mechanically skilled and has more game knowledge than the person playing the broken champ. The meta is just a result of constant balance changes and additions that are made to the game so instead of questioning it, we should understand it and be able to play with it (or around it).

Yeah, totally agree, if you just play champions that are the flavor of the day you are always going to lose against someone who plays a champion they enjoy and play well with him/her/it.

moonbornJul 30, 20161 votes

meta can be "broken". of course there is a different in off-meta picks, and troll picks. like soraka jungle.. could be consideren a troll/fun pick. ADC annie would also be a troll pick. but playing something unpopular, like karthus jungle, or ahri support. or even just picking yorick top, is all viable and fine.

a lot of picks that are considered "meh" today, in a few months will be considered very powerful just because various other champions will get nerfed, or maybe a new item will be released, etc.

Ultimate DeadpooJul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

. ADC annie would also be a troll pick.

I'd like to argue that an ADC annie while being a troll pick would probably be the most terrifying thing in the history of league.

Too TonJul 30, 20161 votes

Non-meta urgot. If you are equally skilled I think he will lose to any adc

Ultimate DeadpooJul 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Too Ton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xt7UPqLd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-07-30T21:58:31.434+0000)

Non-meta urgot. If you are equally skilled I think he will lose to any adc

Urgot isn't an ADC though

Swiftstrike4Jul 30, 20161 votes

The "meta" are just the game strategies, item paths, and champion pool that are the "best practices" of the game. Best practices give you a better chance to win a game than not.

These change a lot.

Meta matters more with itemization, how to play roles, than champion pool.

Most matchups are skill-based in probably Plat and lower. Non-meta picks in low elo typically doesn't effect game outcome at all.

I think the role of "jungle" is probably the the most important where meta champions are most useable. And it isn't because those junglers are superior in map control over others, it is largely because the early clears are really hard with off-meta picks. For example I saw a Sona jungle recently.

She got executed doing a camp.

However, Sona mid is viable probably in most Elos. She just has really bad wave clear, and typical mid laners have good wave clear. So it makes it hard for her to in the later game to clear waves of minions quickly.

Ultimate DeadpooJul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think the role of "jungle" is probably the the most important where meta champions are most useable. And it isn't because those junglers are superior in map control over others, it is largely because the early clears are really hard with off-meta picks.

I would like to argue that Shyvana, a non meta pick has really fast jungle clears. Warwick, while not having quick jungle clears is able to keep in up CS as he is able to continue to stay in the jungle and farm for longer in the early game than his opposing jungler. Nocturne's Umbra blade passive allows him to pretty efficiently clear jungle camps fairly quickly.

Swiftstrike4Jul 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ultimate Deadpoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xt7UPqLd,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-07-30T22:10:59.510+0000)

I would like to argue that Shyvana, a non meta pick has really fast jungle clears. Warwick, while not having quick jungle clears is able to keep in up CS as he is able to continue to stay in the jungle and farm for longer in the early game than his opposing jungler. Nocturne's Umbra blade passive allows him to pretty efficiently clear jungle camps fairly quickly.

I still consider both those "meta" picks though. Not the top of the tier, but they are considered "junglers" over other positions. Champions like "corki" or "braum" is what I am referring too.

Ultimate DeadpooJul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I still consider both those "meta" picks though. Not the top of the tier, but they are considered "junglers" over other positions. Champions like "corki" or "braum" is what I am referring too.

Did not know that was what you were referring to.

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 30, 20161 votes

everything is overrated

but meta champs are overrated because people don't understand how metas work and they will never bother to actually do the math

Ultimate DeadpooJul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

everything is overrated

but meta champs are overrated because people don't understand how metas work and they will never bother to actually do the math

I also think most meta champs are a big reason why we get people who really suck at a certain champion playing it just because its considered "meta" when they would be better off playing an off meta champion that they are actually good at.

Ultimate DeadpooJul 30, 20161 votes

Also, could you guys please upvote this? I think this is an interesting debate that more people need to see.

Slack KingJul 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ultimate Deadpoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xt7UPqLd,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-30T21:44:17.627+0000)

Personally, I never understood why people swear by what is meta and what is not meta so much at all. This is true especially in pro play and honestly it makes champions that honestly are good, reliable, and powerful go on the way side to champions that are meta. Plus, all meta is just what overall we consider to be the best choices, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily going to be the best champion for a certain play style. I love playing champions that I consider really strong but no one else really does, them being Warwick, Shyvana, and Nocturne, and I make them work, even against meta champions. So in my opinion, you are better off playing champions you enjoy and are good with than what everyone else consider "good".

That is kinda the point of Meta, theyre overrated until someone comes into the meta due to them countering the prior pick

Ultimate DeadpooJul 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slack King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xt7UPqLd,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-07-30T23:04:47.776+0000)

That is kinda the point of Meta, theyre overrated until someone comes into the meta due to them countering the prior pick

My point is that meta causes champions that end up getting counters never seen again even though another meta comss up that they could do well in, resulting in champions that are actually good to fall out of favor. Result of this is the same champs being used over and over again.

PermabannedGarenJul 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ultimate Deadpoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xt7UPqLd,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-30T21:44:17.627+0000)

Personally, I never understood why people swear by what is meta and what is not meta so much at all. This is true especially in pro play and honestly it makes champions that honestly are good, reliable, and powerful go on the way side to champions that are meta. Plus, all meta is just what overall we consider to be the best choices, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily going to be the best champion for a certain play style. I love playing champions that I consider really strong but no one else really does, them being Warwick, Shyvana, and Nocturne, and I make them work, even against meta champions. So in my opinion, you are better off playing champions you enjoy and are good with than what everyone else consider "good".

Do you know what all your junglers have in common that meta junglers don't?

Poor ganks before six (Noc to a lesser extent, tbh he's almost meta, he's actually played a lot in high elo solo queue). Shyvana in particular doesn't have particularly good ganks even after six.

Warwick is not reliable in particular because he has almost zero pressure before he hits six, and is pretty underwhelming when he doesn't have his ult.

Compare to Hecarim, who has very powerful early ganks and can snowball a game quickly while scaling into a solid off-tank.

Hecarim is just better at doing what is needed of the jungler right now.

edit: Not that I'm saying you shouldn't experiment and try to counter what's "meta". When assassins meta mid laners I took Cho mid before the LCS players did and dumped on their chests. League is designed around perfect imbalance. Things are made deliberately a little imbalanced so that players of all skill levels can experiment and find ways to play against what's meta.

Ultimate DeadpooJul 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Do you know what all your junglers have in common that meta junglers don't?

Poor ganks before six (Noc to a lesser extent, tbh he's almost meta, he's actually played a lot in high elo solo queue). Shyvana in particular doesn't have particularly good ganks even after six.

Warwick is not reliable in particular because he has almost zero pressure before he hits six, and is pretty underwhelming when he doesn't have his ult.

Compare to Hecarim, who has very powerful early ganks and can snowball a game quickly while scaling into a solid off-tank.

Hecarim is just better at doing what is needed of the jungler right now.

Can heracaim 2v1 a Katharina with 34 kills and a master with GA and both of them on full health? I think not.

PermabannedGarenJul 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ultimate Deadpoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xt7UPqLd,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-07-31T00:00:23.609+0000)

Can heracaim 2v1 a Katharina with 34 kills and a master with GA and both of them on full health? I think not.

No, but frankly who cares? Do you think good players aren't aware that Warwick is a very good duelist? Warwick gets kited in team fights by good teams or, more typically, either gets focused down and counter jungled and put far behind, or has his total lack of early pressure taken advantage of so that Hecarim can put his lanes ahead.

Also, frankly, I'm not so sure that Warwick even beats Master Yi 1v1 if the Yi builds and plays properly.

I'm going to be blunt. You're not playing against good players. You're very low elo, and your Warwick build isn't even very good. What works against people in low bronze does not necessarily work as you rank up. Warwick is a very good duelist and like very good duelists can 1v2 or potentially 1v3. Good players don't let him do that, because he's incredibly slow and shitty without his ult, and even his ult doesn't mean much since high elo players actually build stuff like QSS or save their CC to counter WW.

Hecarim by contrast can also jump on the ADC and kill them, but he's much harder to peel due to his ult.