Hecarim: Stop ruining jungle versions of champs because of top

Krazikarl··2 votes·952 views

One of the major problems that Riot has with balance and the jungle is that they keep nerfing mediocre but viable junglers because of what they do top. This inability to do targetted nerfs at top lane versions while leaving jungle versions alone is one big reasons why the jungle pool of viable champions is usually so thin (see competitive play, where there is usually a Holy Trinity of 3 champions, most recently Reksai, Gragas, and Elise). SoloQ is usually much better than competitive with respect to depth, but its still not great.

Hecarim is getting another round of nerfs on PBE, presumably because of the top lane version. His jungle version is balanced (51% winrate, will drop because of mana nerfs on recent patch), but the top lane version is probably a bit strong (53.4% winrate, with lower average games played).

So why do we have a round of nerfs that will hit his jungle version at least as hard as the lane version? This will move the jungle version of Hecarim from "mediocre but viable" to "not quite viable" probably, perhaps removing yet another jungler from the jungle pool. That's sad.

Why can't we do a nerf targetted at top Hec? Let me give an example. Instead of hitting HP and the passive, why not hit the W:

For example, you can change the healing cap on Spirit of Dread from 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 / 210 on monsters and minions to 100 / 130 / 160 / 190 / 220 on monsters and 70% as much on minions.

So jungle Hecarim is just as strong (a tiny bit more healing on monsters, if he needs to heal on minions he gets less), but lane Hecarim gets less sustain. Lane Hecarim drops down a bit, but we don't drop a jungler.

I just don't understand why Riot doesn't try and protect junglers more often to do SOMETHING to make more junglers viable given the shallowness of the position. I actually like jungling, but I always feel like there are so few good choices of champions to choose from compared to lanes.

8 Comments

The Bearded Bard1 votes

A moment of silence for Maokai, the first jungler ruined by top lane.

Krazikarl1 votes

I'm not sure if he was the first, but he sure did get kicked out of the jungle because of top. Champion.gg actually has jungle Maokai as almost as popular as lane Maokai...but that's just because they are both almost extinct (both under 1%).

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Maokai was my first main way back in the day. Used to play him jungle, mid, support, and occasionally top. Then they gave him a mini rework, took away his damage on his e for a shitty slow he never needed, % damage instead of his .8 scaling on w. Countless nerds to the damage and cd of ult. All because of his power in top lane.

lee3508523021 votes

interesting. riot basically just cut 100 flat health off level 18 hecarim lol

heh heh heh interesting balancing changes indeed

Renaille1 votes

You balance based on the optimum way to run a champion.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

They did the reverse to Khazix.

They ruined his laning because what he could do on the jungle.

Krazikarl1 votes

I'm not a Kha player, but I think that its gone both ways with him. Didn't he get some of the big healing nerfs on Void Spikes because of annoying lane builds? Kha is just a champ that has been nerfed and buffed in and out of so many positions that I don't even know what is going on with him at any point in time.

BluePolarizer1 votes

Hecarim top isn't a first pick autolock. It is good as a lane bully pick against low sustain melee champs. You can poke them with Q, heal up any sustain they have with W and then wreck them with an ignite all in when they're low.

He isn't that good against other champs and is terrible against champs with good sustain, hybrid damage or strong autoattacks. That's why his win rate is high: you only pick Hec top into the champs he is favored to win.

Hecarim jungle can be first picked but not anymore lol.

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