The case against ADC Thresh

KFCeytron··4 votes·1,295 views

I see this build occasionally, either as a "for fun" setup or for another ADC in ARAM. It's a niche but long-standing staple of off-meta Thresh builds.

The problem is that it is so bad that it should never be used and should be considered trolling on the level of e.g. six-Deathcap Garen.

First, we have to take into consideration a nerf that most people probably won't remember, especially as it's a mechanical distinction not listed in the tooltip. Thresh's autoattack "steroid," such as it is, is a stronger autoattack after time spent not attacking. It takes several seconds to build, and the nerf was that it only starts building after Thresh's autoattack timer is complete. This means that if you autoattack constantly, you will get zero bonus damage. Another nerf that impacted this steroid (although not as directly) was moving that passive from its original ability, Q, to E. Q is usually maxed first as a strong initiation tool, so moving the passive to E took away Thresh's free poking power: now he has to choose between ranking up his hook or Flay. It's been a while so I don't recall exactly, but I think these changes were specifically intended to curtail ADC Thresh and solidify him as a support and nothing else.

Second, Thresh was never intended to be anything but a full support, so his animations are long and cumbersome. In fact, if he hooks someone with his Q, he literally is unable to autoattack them while tugging them around. That's right, it's like a self-blind. Rather than using his abilities to strengthen his autoattacks, his abilities prevent and preclude his autoattacks. It doesn't matter when he's a support, but it demolishes his value as an ADC.

Third, his intended playstyle of initiation and disruption relies on tanky support items. If he builds things like Shiv and IE, he doesn't have the durability he needs in order to fully use his kit (which traditionally involves using Q to dive into an enemy team and ult). Instead, he simply dies before putting his mediocre damage to bear.

Fourth, if ADC Thresh somehow becomes popular again, I don't doubt that Riot will nerf Thresh again in some way to put a stop to it. I don't think anyone who actually enjoys playing Thresh wants that to happen.

Fun builds are cool, but ADC Thresh isn't one of them.

10 Comments

Naymliss2 votes

I see this build occasionally, either as a "for fun" setup or for another ADC in ARAM. It's a niche but long-standing staple of off-meta Thresh builds.

The problem is that it is so bad that it should never be used and should be considered trolling on the level of e.g. six-Deathcap Garen.

Literally just no. Just no. Garen has 0 scalings with AP whatsoever, while thresh has an extremely crisp auto attack animation. He does have a buff to his aa, which is why most ad thresh's go dark harvest + shiv + ie to burst. Also- it's aram. As long as you're not going ap on a champ without ap ratios, it really shouldn't matter as long as you're playing to win.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Same can be said for volibear he has no ad scaling yet people build ad on him? E and ult scale ap and w scales off of hp so answer that

Naymliss3 votes

I shouldn't have to? AD gives you damage on your auto attacks, and voli is built to aa a lot. On the other hand, building AP on champions who do not have ap ratios provides no benefit.

Hotarµ3 votes

Volibear is incredibly auto-reliant. Autos scale with AD.

And besides, at most he'll usually just go full tank after buying a Titanic. Sometimes with the occasional Sterak's.

It's not like he's constantly going full AD with Bloodthirster, Youmuu's, Maw, and the like.

KFCeytron4 votes

{quoted}

Literally just no. Just no. Garen has 0 scalings with AP whatsoever, while thresh has an extremely crisp auto attack animation. He does have a buff to his aa, which is why most ad thresh's go dark harvest + shiv + ie to burst. Also- it's aram. As long as you're not going ap on a champ without ap ratios, it really shouldn't matter as long as you're playing to win.

Incorrect. Thresh has a buff to not autoattacking. If he doesn't autoattack for several seconds, he can poke a bit. If Thresh actually uses his autos, he has no autoattack buff. If he uses his kit, he stops autoattacking, and probably dies. Far from playing to win, it's a good way to make a match a 4v6 and force a loss. Did you even read the thread beyond what you quoted?

Naymliss1 votes

Did you read .... the rest of the sentence that you were quoting?

Here, i'll requote it for you, and bold the parts you missed!

He does have a buff to his aa, which is why most ad thresh's go dark harvest + shiv + ie to burst.

Notice how I acknowledged that it was 1 autoattack by not making the word plural. English is a great language. Another thing to note is how I stated that people build and play around that fact by taking dark harvest and more bursty crit items.

KFCeytron1 votes

{quoted}

Did you read .... the rest of the sentence that you were quoting?

Here, i'll requote it for you, and bold the parts you missed!

Notice how I acknowledged that it was 1 autoattack by not making the word plural. English is a great language. Another thing to note is how I stated that people build and play around that fact by taking dark harvest and more bursty crit items.

And one autoattack (that isn't even that strong) every 10 seconds or so is not a huge contribution to a team. It's about as useful as a roaming support Teemo.

Naymliss1 votes

It's waaay more useful than roaming support teemo since roaming support teemo saps xp from people who need it.

And yeah, you're right. It's not optimal. But it's more enjoyable and has soome viability. If you can't understand that, then play competitive custom ARAMs, since you take the mode too seriously.

L Psy Kongroo1 votes

{quoted}

If he uses his kit, he stops autoattacking

I mean, that's basically every ADC though. Varus has to stop autoing to use his Q, Twitch has to stop autoing to use his W, Caitlyn can't auto during her Q animation, Jinx can't auto while casting W, etc. This isn't really a fair criticism against AD Thresh, since many ADCs have to stop auto attacking sometimes to use their abilities. Furthermore, it could also be argued that Thresh using his abilities over his autos allows time for his E passive to scale back up, so the long windup and cast animation of his Q is actually a benefit in some cases. And it's not like he's required to pull himself into melee range either; he can simply use his Q for the stun or for catching people out the way a normal Thresh would so his team can engage. Lastly, the idea that "if Thresh stops auto attacking he probably dies" is absurd. Good ADCs reposition often mid-fight to keep themselves safe and better acquire targets. All ADCs are squishy and vulnerable. That's their weakness as a class. Thresh is no different if he's built AD.

KFCeytron2 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Psy Kongroo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xVrs4yaR,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2019-12-24T18:13:17.707+0000)

I mean, that's basically every ADC though. Varus has to stop autoing to use his Q, Twitch has to stop autoing to use his W, Caitlyn can't auto during her Q animation, Jinx can't auto while casting W, etc. This isn't really a fair criticism against AD Thresh, since many ADCs have to stop auto attacking sometimes to use their abilities. Furthermore, it could also be argued that Thresh using his abilities over his autos allows time for his E passive to scale back up, so the long windup and cast animation of his Q is actually a benefit in some cases. And it's not like he's required to pull himself into melee range either; he can simply use his Q for the stun or for catching people out the way a normal Thresh would so his team can engage. Lastly, the idea that "if Thresh stops auto attacking he probably dies" is absurd. Good ADCs reposition often mid-fight to keep themselves safe and better acquire targets. All ADCs are squishy and vulnerable. That's their weakness as a class. Thresh is no different if he's built AD.

Every champion has animations, yes... for some skills... that last some amount of time. Skarner's Q doesn't have a cast time or interrupt his autos, Trist's Q is also instant and actually boosts her autos, and so on. Vayne's Tumble prevents her from autoattacking, but the hit to her damage output is compensated with a boost to her next auto, and Tumble doesn't even take that long. Thresh, on the other hand, gets to stop attacking for 2-3 seconds if he hooks someone and then pulls himself in.

I'm sorry, but an ADC not being able to attack will never be a benefit. Actual ADCs find ways to attack rather than avoid attacking.

Thresh doesn't "probably die" because he stops autoattacking; he probably dies because the purpose of his kit is to allow him to engage and assist allies. If he's building glass cannon (did you read that paragraph of the OP?), engaging gets him killed. Real ADCs have kits that make them harder to catch, not kits that lend themselves to diving into the enemy team.

When you get placed as your team's ADC, do you pick Thresh for the reasons you outlined above? Or do you avoid ADC Thresh?

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