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Instant burst one-shot ruining a strategic game

KFCeytron··82 votes·14,530 views

When you can be obliterated in an instant with targeted burst that can't be dodged, it basically precludes the possibility of a deep, strategic game. Look at this sequence of screenshots showing a ridiculous one-shot. First, everything is fine:

https://i.imgur.com/CkbutQc.png

Then we see someone deciding to move up from bot.

https://i.imgur.com/6FbvskX.png

And now the opponent moving down from top. Keep in mind this unit is basically a minion at this point in the game, while the one moving up from bot is considered strong, with good mobility:

https://i.imgur.com/0LxZNT7.png

Our extremely mobile unit thinks it's a good idea to move here now, trying to get a shot at an important objective. Should be fine, right? I mean, the nearby enemy is very weak.

https://i.imgur.com/GkNxZGV.png

BUT

https://i.imgur.com/EEGffhF.png

BOOM DOESN'T MATTER EXPLODED INSTANTLY.

This game would be much more strategic and thoughtful if you could make a series of stupid mistakes to get into a dangerous position and yet get away scot-free by mashing all your buttons and right-clicking your fountain.

 

######WTB middle ground

40 Comments

Woodakoodashooda22 votes

For a moment, I thought this was memes and games when I went through the post.

Seriously, is this satire? Because it's funny as hell.

boomstick271 votes

So damn funny I spit up my coffee.

BigFBear1 votes

No it's not satire, you know? He is dead serious.

....

Wtf is that question?

Rouwhorst16 votes

Hold up, in chess you have a lot more time to think about every move. In league this time shrinks down enormously to sub second decisions.

Z3Sleeper3 votes

Not if you play with a 5 second move timer.

Rouwhorst3 votes

optional

PB4UAME2 votes

In blitz you usually have a match clock of 5 minutes total, and you get to spend as much or as little time per move as you want, with the risk of getting clocked if you take too long.

Usually, since openings are memorized, its only in the mid game that people start spending much time, as they like to use as little as possible on the moves they already know the best response to. Honestly though, even 5 seconds is about twice as long as a League teamfight, and in standard blitz, that would give you time for 60 moves.

KFCeytron11 votes

{quoted}

Hold up, in chess you have a lot more time to think about every move. In league this time shrinks down enormously to sub second decisions.

You have a fraction of a second for "micro" or "mechanical" decisions, like dodging skillshots. You have much more time to consider "macro" or "strategic" decisions like leaving your team to farm under turret while the enemy has a fed Diana and you don't know where she is. The point of this thread is that - contrary to something I've been seeing people throw around on Gameplay - one-shots increase the importance of large-scale strategic decisions, because there's less opportunity for micro-level counterplay.

Rouwhorst1 votes

ahhh curse it. had a whole essay written only to make it disappear by accidental history browse...

Fair point!

But over I fear the excessive focus on micro has lowered the macro options/decision making. Some tools have been removed for the macro play, other tools have been granted plentifully. Think of... Vision: sacrificing 1/2 slots and some gold // free trinket slot Jungler pathing: on could extrapolate the taken path from cs // every camp gives same cs Waveclear (later game): specific champion assignment to clearing waves // everyone can clear waves Damage pattern: Poke, dps, burst // burst Winning tactics: sieging, grouping or splitpushing // deathball Or more general time assingment: certain task take less time to do, which means less is sacrificed and decision making goes down. If one can quickly and simply dispose of a turret then one needn't make a strategic plan to do so.

And even then, the increased focus on micro means less focus on macro which makes it a lot worse when the micro gets taken away by a one-shot. If for example the focus distribution before was 35% micro/65% macro and now 70% micro/30 macro, being rid of the micro feels a lot worse. Less focus on macro makes it more undervalued and underused.

PICKLE RICK REEE1 votes

[deleted]

KFCeytron3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Soraka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cz0kHKoi,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-07-21T20:37:02.398+0000)

So you're saying the super strong mobile piece is an idiot?

I don't understand.

I wouldn't say that piece is an idiot, but I would say they made a series of unsound tactical decisions and were unable to escape the consequences.

{quoted}

First, no one in chess would play 1.f6 into the Reti opening. And absolutely no one would play 2.ng5 after that. That breaks the standard rules of chess:

  1. Never move the same piece twice in a row in the opening
  2. Try to play around the center.

If I saw this in a chess game I would shake my head

Being a Silver chess player didn't hinder my ability to write that chess program. :^)

[{quoted}](name=PICKLE RICK REEE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cz0kHKoi,comment-id=000200010001,timestamp=2018-07-22T05:01:09.212+0000)

are you mentally deficient? according to your retarded logic, nuclear bombs require more strategy than the battle of normandy

You're missing the forest for the trees. You see the push of a button while flying a plane, but you don't see the initial focus on domestic affairs, the unprovoked attack by a warlike nation, the numerous traditional battles, the territory gained and lost, the gathering of scientific minds, the understanding of nuclear fission, the deliberation around such a weapon, the enemy's uncompromising stance, the projection of losses in a protracted traditional battle...

How important are wards when you're invincible?

How important are wards when you're fragile?

PICKLE RICK REEE1 votes

I guess the uncompromising stance and deliberation of such a weapon (champion) exists in champion select? lmfao It's literally picking a fucking champion that ends the game like a nuclear bomb would. Playing the game is just flying the plane A to B "can we morally justify picking such a broken as fuck champion just because the game developers ("scientists") refuse to change it?"

Hawkefire1 votes

Depends on the game of chess, there are varying optional time rules.

Thefrostyviking9 votes

My specialized detector is giving out alarms about extreme levels of satire with a hint of sarcasm and irony.

But having studied the source i find myself amused, have an upvote.

OHminus8 votes

First, no one in chess would play 1.f6 into the Reti opening. And absolutely no one would play 2.ng5 after that. That breaks the standard rules of chess:

  1. Never move the same piece twice in a row in the opening
  2. Try to play around the center.

If I saw this in a chess game I would shake my head

Auroramancer6 votes

Memes and Games my friend

Spank the Fox6 votes

Nerf Pawns.

A pawn should never be able to duel a Knight under any circumstance, fucking shitty game balance.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cz0kHKoi,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-07-22T03:48:27.323+0000)

Nerf Pawns.

A pawn should never be able to duel a Knight under any circumstance, fucking shitty game balance.

Not only that, but they scale into late game and can become queens. too good at all points in the game. Fucking OP nerf pl0x.

Yordle Xayah4 votes

This is weird. It's like grabbing Golf and Tennis and saying they're both the comparable because both are about you hitting a ball trying to get it somewhere specific. It's a really poor comparison.

[sg-lux-2]

KFCeytron4 votes

{quoted}

This is weird. It's like grabbing Golf and Tennis and saying they're both the comparable because both are about you hitting a ball trying to get it somewhere specific. It's a really poor comparison.

[sg-lux-2]

I'm sorry that you don't understand it. Don't worry about it.

Yordle Xayah4 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry that you don't understand it. Don't worry about it.

You're using Chess to make a point about League. Both games play completely different and have nothing to do with one another, other than the fact that both require strategy to be played. It's a really poor comparison that has no place in a serious discussion. If this is intended to be a joke, then you're in the wrong board and I guess I'm stupid for trying to take you seriously.

KFCeytron4 votes

{quoted}

You're using Chess to make a point about League to a game that plays completely different and that has nothing to do with it other than the fact that both require strategy to be played. It's a really poor comparison that has no place in a serious discussion. If this is intended to be a joke, then you're in the wrong board and I guess I'm stupid for trying to take you seriously.

Two strategy games where a strategic error can cost you a unit regardless of your twitch reaction time. Everyone else got it. Thanks for sharing, though.

Vonyalo4 votes

Two strategy games

I'm not saying LoL has no strategy whatsoever, but if you really think lol is a strategy game... [sg-lulu]

Yordle Xayah3 votes

{quoted}

Two strategy games where a strategic error can cost you a unit regardless of your twitch reaction time. Everyone else got it. Thanks for sharing, though.

What everyone did was take your post as a joke. Sorry for trying to take you seriously. If you're crazy enough to think playing League and Chess is essentially the same, and then I've got nothing.

KFCeytron4 votes

{quoted}

What everyone did was take your post as a joke. Sorry for trying to take you seriously. If you're crazy enough to think playing League and Chess is essentially the same, and then I've got nothing.

Thank you once more for sharing.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Reaper Soraka3 votes

So you're saying the super strong mobile piece is an idiot?

I don't understand.

Thefrostyviking4 votes

The joke here is that the bright knight was so eager to do his thing that he completely neglected to think about the dark peasant, resulting in his intended swift and flashy victory being instantly undone by sheer carelessness in a single short and easy move.

Many league players on the boards like to drop in and be like "champ X retarded/stupid/brainded, here look at this clip for proof".

Then you see a video of the posting person rushing in on their "LcsBigPlays" champ, attempt something flashy and eat a full rotation of enemy skills to the face and killed instantly....

Particular nod towards the assassin "mains" who were so fond of asking for their champs to be buffed to the point where they are stronger than a botlaner+support working together while they themselves are alone, those fellows often uploaded clips of them jumping on a "exposed" target only be exhausted, chain CC'd and swiftly disposed off.

So to answer your question, yes, the bright knight is kind off a.......clueless fellow, and a representation at the same time off some people who appear on the boards at times, this post is kinda satire against that.

PICKLE RICK REEE3 votes

more like the pawn jumps across the board on the first move, takes your queen, goes untargetable for the next turn, then jumps back to its original spot

deadlychuck3 votes

Yeah, part of the problem is that they've been trying to change the game from a game of mitigation. Accepting that you'll take damage, but it's your job through positioning, itemization, and timing to avoid as much of it as possible. To a statistical game, where it's a probability roll on if you're going to die.

Instead of minimizing the damage from a rotation that would hit you for X% of your HP, now, you're expected to try and avoid a Y% chance of instant death. Yeah, net result might be the same, but the experience is completely different.

This is exactly why pro players have been complaining over the past 3 years, about how a single mistake sets you impossibly far behind.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

This. I like this.

lolipopevelynn2 votes

im surprised you didnt make white 1 shot the entire black side because fed.

BigFBear2 votes

Do I really have to explain the meaning of this post? How can people don't get it? Op is making fun of all those people who cry about DMG and oneshots. Because 99% of this complaining results from bad positioning and bad macro decisions.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

Minion Block TM

Drugoth1 votes

Lol, the white player honestly deserved to lose their knight, that was an awful opener...

Taliyah Rocks1 votes

Quite frankly, whether this is a serious post or not, i kinda agree with you. I'm really sick of being in a constant fear of getting one-shot by ANYTHING, fed or not, it's sickenning. If you are squishy and the enemy team has CC/burst, one mistake or unfavorable encounter will probably result in you dying.

I miss old LoL when you could actually afford to make a few mistake without automatically throwing the game. Games were much more fun since you could afford to make riskier plays, and learn from your mistakes, and adjust accordingly throughout the game.

Before: Die twice in lane, play defensively, hope that you'll outscale, or wait for an openning to punish your opponent and catch up. A bad trade probably meant you were forced to back and lose exp and gold.

Now: Die once, lose tower, lose lane, you can't farm, and if you even remotely overextend, you'll be instantly killed by the enemy laner or jungler. A bad trade probably means you died, lost exp, gold, while also feeding your enemy.

Seriously, i think we've all went into matchups we thought we'd win, only to get outplayed and giving first blood. It happens to everyone to underestimate your enemy laner, it's just really lame when you're getting punished so hard from just a mistake or two.

LegitBusinessman1 votes

Literally unplayable.

CrimsonReaperX1 votes

And now I feel like playing a good game of chest over... this.

Malak1 votes

Imagine one piece could kill half your board in one turn.

That’s one shot meta in league.

Disulfiram1 votes

You know, although half-jokingly you actually bring up a very valid point imho.

Who Fed Ru1 votes

I agree nerf pawns

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