Facing Ahri is always a free win for me.

Ahris··2 votes·3,127 views

Everytime I play against Ahri she always feed and lose lane and eventually because of her, her whole team loses the game. I usually have difficulty facing other champ, but Ahri is just super easy to play against I just feel like she is soo weak. Since the time I played this game the only time I found her strong was when Ahri could dfg w r r r (season 3). Other than that she was always the weak and the most outplayable champ I have ever faced.

The thing about Ahri that many overlook is her extremely punishing laning phase. Just let your laner get first blood on her and it is basically a done lane for Ahri. Her laning phase is one of weakest from apc, and it is very easily abuseable. She is basically free kill after everytime she respawn once you get first blood on her. Her early is weak, her mid is below average, and her late is weak. When is she ever good?

I probably just know her complete weakness and abuse it everytime I play against her. I just want everyone else to abuse her weakness so that people will realize how much of a weak champ Ahri is. I can play almost any midlaner and shut Ahri down(because ahri don't counter anyone). This one time this Ahri Diamond player argued with me that she is strong. So I 1v1 her (i was silver that time) and got first blood against her. I feel like people are completely not understanding how to play against Ahri. If you are the jungler you got to camp the enemy ahri lane. This will effectively make the game 5v4. Only way for her to do anything is to get fed after she reach 6. Only then would she have some power. But then she is also outscaled anyway. She is outscaled by most apc mid and late game while having a very weak(but i guess safe) laning phase.

Some may say Ahri is not meta, but will she ever return? After her w nerf in which it was basically her meta she suddenly became a lot worse pick. So if she is bad even in her meta when will she ever be good? Imo she is one of the most outplayable champ in the entire game and one of most punishable midlaner.

I really hate it when people call this Ahri state as "finally balanced." How is she balanced when she is so weak to lane against? How is she balanced if she is probably one of most punishable midlaner in game? Does that make every single other midlaner a broken champ? I have no idea. The only other midlaner I found to be as easy as ahri is Lux... but even Lux is not as punishing as Ahri who has to come close to burst. Because of Lux's range she will always be able to dish out even her weak dps.

I will probably get downvoted for this, but I am pretty serious about Ahri being a free win for me almost every time(unless im not a jungler or a midlaner then she still has chance). It is just super annoying to me to see Ahri just become so useless everytime and yet everyone else(not really everyone but still a good amount) will say she is either strong/balanced when in reality she is just a very very weak champ. Why would I ever pick Ahri over any champ? Ahri is already weak and below average in every single phase of the game. She is never "always good" but actually "always bad". Imo.

29 Comments

ModWuks1 votes

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Pie Cubed1 votes

If you previously claimed to having ditched being an Ahri main, why do you still complain? Just play someone else. If it's her lore that appeals, that archetype exists in many different games. Just move on.

Literally the only way you can succeed in giving Ahri buffs is to annoy Riot into submission (and the rest of us). Just play someone else. I've seen Ahri feed, get fed, be in the middle. Her winrate is near perfection in terms of balance at the moment (according to op.gg). If you feel she does no damage, then I once played Zed and failed horribly, did no damage just because of those games, they happen. Does that mean Zed is underpowered needs 1000+ damage ult level 6 to make up for his weak late game to make him etc etc you get the idea.

Just Play Someone Else

That and nobody wants to see your professional shitposting skills.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pie Cubed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xQUAFTr3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-02T06:59:01.114+0000)

If you previously claimed to having ditched being an Ahri main, why do you still complain? Just play someone else. If it's her lore that appeals, that archetype exists in many different games. Just move on.

Literally the only way you can succeed in giving Ahri buffs is to annoy Riot into submission (and the rest of us). Just play someone else. I've seen Ahri feed, get fed, be in the middle. Her winrate is near perfection in terms of balance at the moment (according to op.gg). If you feel she does no damage, then I once played Zed and failed horribly, did no damage just because of those games, they happen. Does that mean Zed is underpowered needs 1000+ damage ult level 6 to make up for his weak late game to make him etc etc you get the idea.

Just Play Someone Else

That and nobody wants to see your professional shitposting skills.

It is not that I play her and doing bad, but other people playing her and doing horribly. There is no way for Ahri to get fed unless the opponent has no idea how to play against her. At that point you shouldn't even pick ahri in the mid lane.

Once you know of Ahri's weakness well, her very weak early, then you will probably see a HUGE drop in Ahri's winrate. But many don't abuse this and end up getting hit by charm some how(one of easiest skill shot to dodge in game) and getting hit by it many times.

People need to learn how to play against Ahri and not continue claiming she is the most balanced mid. Sure maybe for the data, but against me what is her winrate? Probably not even close to 30%(excluding games I was not mid or jungler).

Ahri does do no damage. The only games you see Ahri fed is when there is a horrible midlaner who should not even be playing midlane in the first place. Anyone who has knowledge about the midlane should know about Ahri's weakness and abuse it.

I never stopped playing Ahri, I do play sometimes and do very average with her. But playing with her she feeds all the time and playing against her and she feeds so hard. I don't get what it means for being the safest apc in game if she dies the most everytime.

Zed has one of best early game in the game. Once he is fed he destroys every laner. Then late game he can outduel anyone. Ahri has one of weakest early game. Once Ahri is fed, MAYBE she destroys other laner. Then lategame she is outscaled by everyone.

I don't want to play this game and know the balance is so bad. Riot claims she is FINE, but what is FINE? I play ahri a lot unlike you who only played Zed once and claim that zed is bad from just that. I played Ahri a lot and played against her.

Ofc Ahri may get fed but she is also EXTREMELY easy to shut down. Since her damage is all in her q and e, her aoe damage is horrible and her single target burst is so relient in e landing and even if she is fed she won't be bursting anyone.

If you call a champ that is weak balanced, then every other midlaner is broken.

Viktor Von Lazer1 votes

I know it must feel so terribly hard being a decent above average pick but not number 1 in both pickrate and winrate for a change with 20% playrate and 53% winrate which she had before her nerfs... but do give it rest and let the other mains with real problems get their numbers fine tuned first.

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

I know it must feel so terribly hard being a decent above average pick but not number 1 in both pickrate and winrate for a change with 20% playrate and 53% winrate which she had before her nerfs... but do give it rest and let the other mains with real problems get their numbers fine tuned first.

She is a very easy champ to win for anyone who understands her kit. What are other midlane champs that are bad? Only champs that I can think of are champs that Riot actually plans to rework.

Viktor Von Lazer1 votes

{quoted}

She is a very easy champ to win for anyone who understands her kit. What are other midlane champs that are bad? Only champs that I can think of are champs that Riot actually plans to rework.

syndra and viktor for starters. VIktor got nerfed because of how good rylais was on him and of course as per usual, rylais got nerfed and viktor never got any compensation buffs.

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

syndra and viktor for starters. VIktor got nerfed because of how good rylais was on him and of course as per usual, rylais got nerfed and viktor never got any compensation buffs.

Still used competitively.

Viktor Von Lazer1 votes

{quoted}

Still used competitively.

Hardly any more. only a few who are exceptional at the champs still play them. Bjergsen isn't going to stop playing his most played champion Syndra he has a 70% winrate on just because you remove or shift 10-20 damage here or there. Crown isn't going to stop pulling out Viktor either. Viktor otherwise doesn't see that much play.
They both have lower winrates than Ahri. who sits at 50% at long last. She is balanced. She actually has to work to win now.

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

Hardly any more. only a few who are exceptional at the champs still play them. Bjergsen isn't going to stop playing his most played champion Syndra he has a 70% winrate on just because you remove or shift 10-20 damage here or there. Crown isn't going to stop pulling out Viktor either. Viktor otherwise doesn't see that much play.
They both have lower winrates than Ahri. who sits at 50% at long last. She is balanced. She actually has to work to win now.

Used competetively means that the champ is broken when used in highest of lvl. Highest potential champs are those low winrate in soloq but used in competitive.

Ahri has 49.70% winrate. She is really weak for being a safe champ. Ahri has to put MUCH more effort than almost ANY apc to win games. Even then Ahri can hardly do anything for how low her damage is to tanks. If balanced is Ahri then every other apc is broken and need nerfs.

Viktor Von Lazer1 votes

{quoted}

Used competetively means that the champ is broken when used in highest of lvl. Highest potential champs are those low winrate in soloq but used in competitive.

Ahri has 49.70% winrate. She is really weak for being a safe champ. Ahri has to put MUCH more effort than almost ANY apc to win games. Even then Ahri can hardly do anything for how low her damage is to tanks. If balanced is Ahri then every other apc is broken and need nerfs.

Wrong, used competitively as a midlaner means that the champion is usually (but not always) 1. safe or lane dominant, 2. reliable 3. great in coordinated organized play which is why orianna is always used competitively, even if shes balanced and far from broken. The only reason Ahri shows up in competitive is because of abnormally high performances in soloQ. Back when she had 53-54% winrate and 20% play rate. Ryze is of course a much stronger champion in the hands of an LCS player than the average one, but its the team wide teleport that allows you to pressure multiple objectives simultaneous which is why he was so popular. Azir, was an enemy team knockup and displacement etc. They are great if you are on voice com with people not so much for SoloQ. Ahri is perfectly balanced for SoloQ but shes not as strong as certain picks for competitive because her intent is pretty clear and obvious - land a charm on a carry everyone know how to react - blow up said carry. Ryze requires communication and in that particular environment you can get a lot more out of him than just a pick. Ahri and other assassin type champions simply dont show up in LCS games that often. The exceptions would be fizz, leblanc and zed and that`s mostly due to overperforming in certain areas for the typical assassin.

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

Wrong, used competitively as a midlaner means that the champion is usually (but not always) 1. safe or lane dominant, 2. reliable 3. great in coordinated organized play which is why orianna is always used competitively, even if shes balanced and far from broken. The only reason Ahri shows up in competitive is because of abnormally high performances in soloQ. Back when she had 53-54% winrate and 20% play rate. Ryze is of course a much stronger champion in the hands of an LCS player than the average one, but its the team wide teleport that allows you to pressure multiple objectives simultaneous which is why he was so popular. Azir, was an enemy team knockup and displacement etc. They are great if you are on voice com with people not so much for SoloQ. Ahri is perfectly balanced for SoloQ but shes not as strong as certain picks for competitive because her intent is pretty clear and obvious - land a charm on a carry everyone know how to react - blow up said carry. Ryze requires communication and in that particular environment you can get a lot more out of him than just a pick. Ahri and other assassin type champions simply dont show up in LCS games that often. The exceptions would be fizz, leblanc and zed and that`s mostly due to overperforming in certain areas for the typical assassin.

Ya a great soloq champ has a winrate less than 50%. A champ also has a high survivability rate. A champ that has safety should always have high winrate as that means balanced(it means easier to play and won't die in crucial times so must have high winrate)

Think about it, if a champ that constantly die have a high winrate then it means those champs are broken. This is because if those champs were to live the fight, as in high skill cap, they will have a lot of damage to carry compared to Ahri and have much higher winrate. Since Ahri is balanced around her safety, her having the lowest winrate from soloq champs show that she is actually a very bad champ. The reason is because even if she skillfully lives through fights, the amount of impact she has is not as much as champs that also skillfully live through fights. Look at Talon who almost always die in teamfight, but he has one of highest winrate. This goes to show that Ahri was nerfed too much for her to do any damage despite living which ultimately also hurt the skill cap of the champ.

Ahri is never rlly used in competitive and even in soloq she has the lowest winrate excluding those I mentioned before. Ahri has no place anywhere rlly. Since she is a midlaner, her only role, and only viable in soloq, and the fact that her safety does not equate to higher winrate, it brings up the idea that she is just not strong enough even if she lives through the fight. In teamfights Ahri can basically be left alone because of how weak her damage is, even then she will probably be on your face to burst, so you can just burst her anyway. For how weak her damage is and how her survivability does not lead to more wins, you can conclude that the nerfs to ahri did too much to her that do not reward her for surviving.

EDIT: Additionally people love factoring in playrate so: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats

There are 22 champs that have higher playrate and some having higher winrate than ahri. Obviously those need to be nerfed.

Sujiren1 votes

Ahri is jack of all trades master of none champion.

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

Ahri is jack of all trades master of none champion.

Horrible at everything rlly.

King of Demons1 votes

Ahri is not bad at the moment. Period.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Taku of Rivia,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xQUAFTr3,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-09-03T13:41:42.233+0000)

Ahri is not bad at the moment. Period.

Worse than every other viable apc. I don't know a situation where picking Ahri is the best choice. Even choosing her blindly is bad because she is so easily countered by many champs. Even if picked later because the comp seems right, other apc requires a lot less effort to carry games. Just look at Annie who can stun and kill the entire enemy squishy once fed with particularly no outplay potential.

What does bad mean? What does good mean? It is complicated to say because we need to establish our definition that best define these terms. I'd say a champ is bad if the champ requires much more effort to carry than any other champ. I'd say a champ is good if the champ require a decent amount of effort to carry. I'd say OP if requires no effort to carry. Ahri fits quite well in the bad definition.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

Ahri is actually balanced. There are 139 champions in league, she is objectively better than at least 70 of them with her pick, ban, and win rates.

Okay name them pls, I am talking about midlane balance and not other lane. Ahri opposed to other true midlaners(not talking sup mid)

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not listing 70 champions. Do the research yourself: http://lolalytics.com/champions/ (or use your favorite stat tracking site, they all say the same thing). 10-15% pick+ban rate, 50% winrate.

Also, remember that there is a huge difference between a balanced champion and the 20 meta champion you see on every patch. A balanced champion runs 50% winrate with middle of the pack pick+ban rate. A meta champion is almost always overpowered and are picked because they clearly outclass 70-80% of champions in the game.

Umn, I use Champion.gg and Ahri has the lowest winrate from all midlaners(excluding competitive viable, sup mid laner, and top laners, and veigar is decent)

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

Probably has to do with what champion.gg qualifies as a mid laner. Any champion with a 50% winrate and 10+% pickrate should be middle of the pack. If they are excluding all mid lancers with lower than 50% winrate, that is a problem with the tracking site and not the champion.

Bottom line, a 50% win rate 10% play rate champion is balanced. Manipulating the subset of champions you compare to ahri to make her look weak just makes you look bias (whether or not you are doing so intentionally). Instead, just look at how she is performing against all other 138 champions.

The site do not exclude midlaners less than 50% winrate. The champs with 50% are midlaners such as Syndra, Orianna, Lucian, and etc, champs that are really broken in competitive. Then you also have Brand, Zyra, and etc, champs that are support. You also have Gangplanc and Yasuo which are both stronger in the top lane than midlane. After you remove them you are left with Ahri.

Playrate does not equal champion strength. For some reason people always bring that up, and yes it does have a relation in one direction and not vice versa. If a champ has high winrate, then the champ will have high playrate(usually). This is different for champs that have low winrate and high playrate. It only means that players just find the champ fun and many of them are also practicing for the legendary Ahri skin.

Manipulating the playrate and winrate correlation to justify a champ being weak just shows how biased you are(whether or not you are doing so intentionally). Instead look at and compare Ahri to all other midlaners(champs solely only used midlane). Compare her damage, her winrate, her potential, and etc. You will know of why she is such a horrible midlaner.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

The playrates are brought up because historically they deflate winrates. That usually applies in cases with 20-40 pick/ban which ahri may have come to at some point which is why people may have brought it up (I don't think she is still there). Conversely, there are cases where very low pick rate champions have artificially deflated winrates (a. Sol comes to mind when he had 53-54% winrate but sub 1% pickrate and clearly wasn't as op as his winrate indicated).

As far as what you define as true mids, you have to realize that a lot of those champions are mid champions who are just underpowered and have to find places elsewhere. Brand is a mid through and through but gets pushed to support from time to time because he is underpowered. You can't just simply remove all of the champions under 50% and claim that ahri is weak because of that.

Bottom line, 50% winrate and 10% pickrate puts ahri middle of the 139 other champions. You can't go hand picking what champions to exclude just to make ahri look weak. You have to take every champion in the context of the entire game. Otherwise, you can choose a subset of champions to make any champion besides the god tier champions look weak.

They may have initially been designed as a midlaner, but they are now designed as supports. It is not that he is underpowered, but it is that there was a place where he performed better. This is similar to TF, TF used to be like an adc, now he is an ap burst mage.

I don't remove everyone under 50%, I am saying they have better place to be. It is like bringing in Janna mid, do you think it is fair to compare Janna mid to Ahri mid to justify ahri is a very strong pick? I am speaking from a meta point of view and not what people do for fun. Ahri is a meta in the midlane, and nowhere else is she viable.

I also remove champs under 50% if they have other roles they are better identitified with. For example Yasuo, he was initially designed as a midlaner but now is used more in the top lane than mid lane(also have higher winrate in top lane).

All I am seeing from your argument is you try to justify Ahri is strong by bringing out as many troll and offmeta picks to claim that Ahri is a strong champ, however, in reality, once you remove those offmeta, troll, and competitively viable champs, you are left with Ahri(though Veigar is also with Ahri in this but he is getting a big buff soon).

What do you mean you need to look at 139 other champ to justify Ahri's strength? That argument itself does not make sense. Ahri is a midlane pick, so you compare it with other viable midlaners. You won't compare a midlaner to a support. It is like comparing Apples to Oranges instead of Green Apples. Green Apple is still apple whether it is not just Apple, but Orange won't ever be Apple, you cannot compare them in the spectrum of Apples. You cannot say Apples are bad because it is not juicy because Apples are not juicy as Orange(hypothetical).

Bottom line, if you compare Ahri to other midlaners, as opposed to other midlaners Ahri is extremely lacking and weak. There is no reason to pick her over any other viable midlaner. Opposed to EVERY single other champ put in the midlane, and only midlane viable then sure Ahri may be in the middle of this(which should be very high as it is her only viable role).

Source: http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Middle

Any further discussion about Ahri compared to 139 other champ in the midlane opposed to Ahri compared to only midlane viable champ then I will consider you as going off topic.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

Here is the thing, if I really wanted, I can go through the entire lineup and make up reasons why they should or should not be excluded for balance. At the end of the day, all of that is subjective and a poor way to judge balance. Instead, we need to focus on the objective points. Ahri has a 50% win rate and 10+% pick rate. When compared to the rest of the lineup, that is right in the middle of the pack.

The more you try to manipulate statistics beyond that, the further you get from reality. You can call it off topic all you want, you have to face reality at some point when you talk about balance.

One: Ahri's winrate is below 50% Two: Ahri's pickrate is below 7% Three: Compare midlaners to other midlaners. Four: You are manipulating the data to go further from the reality of what is viable in the midlane. Five: You need to face the reality and look at the truth than the falsehood.

Frightning1 votes

Makes me wonder if the Ahri's you keep facing are just bad with her, if you're actually just playing the matchup well (probably some of both). I have generally found success when I've played her, but I probably don't quite build her the same way most people do (this is true of me regarding most mages, for one, I usually get item 3089 earlier than most people).

Alex h87211 votes

Lol a good bit of ahri in you're match history though, doing pretty well. Biased much?

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Alex h8721,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xQUAFTr3,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-09-03T23:30:09.659+0000)

Lol a good bit of ahri in you're match history though, doing pretty well. Biased much?

Destroyed them all, I dont know what you are talking about lol

EDIT: My history further supports my thread post Lol!!!

EDIT 2: I just faced an Ahri as Ahri, was lagging with 700 ping but still beated her. So yeah, there goes my understanding of her kit.

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