Really sick of this low risk high reward champs

AZ Frost·Aug 27, 2016·4 votes·2,032 views

Riot quotes something like "we want to have high risk, high reward champs to make your decision making more enjoyable" YET...we still buff the champs that take no skill to play and have them carry games.. i.e Garen. LOW RISK HIGH REWARD. THIS GAME IS FOR THE BIRDS RITO.[zombie-brand-clap] Edit: People think this is a rage at garen bc he beat me post. It is NOT. It's about champs with too much to their kit and having little skill to play with a high reward.

48 Comments

OxyPoroAug 27, 20168 votes

Ekko . 2-3-4 slows? shield, stun, heal, tre hit mechics, %hp execute, ranged harass, ranged slow application, free massive MS boost (you know, so you're actually allowed to trade back), more slows, dash, blink.

This fucker exists and you're trying to tell me GAREN is safe? Garen is low risk high reward?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

AZ FrostAug 31, 20161 votes

Ya this isnt a Garen bash, but a example bc its ez to see it. This about balance and Rito doesn't stick to their guns at all.

Angry MonsterSep 2, 20161 votes

except it is not easy to see. Anyone serious will NEVER call Garen a play maker, high reward, or over loaded.

This is the worst example of a problem champion/type ever.

FioraWillCarrySep 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

. 2-3-4 slows? shield, stun, heal, tre hit mechics, %hp execute, ranged harass, ranged slow application, free massive MS boost (you know, so you're actually allowed to trade back), more slows, dash, blink.

This fucker exists and you're trying to tell me GAREN is safe? Garen is low risk high reward?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Fuck Garen and Ekko....Leblanc exists. Ultimate definition of low risk high reward.

Critmaster GarenAug 27, 20168 votes

i dont see any buffs on PBE notes. the hell is he talking about?

also, garen isnt low risk. he actually has to commit to fights. he isnt a mechanical intensitive champion, but the lack of escape mechanisms and his weakness to kiting makes him as risky to play as squishier champions.

you take longer to die, but if youre making a mistake youre more likely guaranteed to die without having any effect in return.

and high reward is laughable aswell. he has nowhere near the pentakill potential of a lot of hypercarries in this game. those are high reward champions.

AZ FrostAug 31, 20161 votes

build in warmogs...has a silence..a speed boost..armor and MR boost..cc debuffer...true damg hard hitting ult...mega wave clear...and on and on. How is that "fair" for a single kit. Not saying garen is the ONLY champ, but a easy one to point out.

Critmaster GarenAug 31, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=AZ Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xKFGVQj0,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-08-31T23:41:28.097+0000)

build in warmogs...has a silence..a speed boost..armor and MR boost..cc debuffer...true damg hard hitting ult...mega wave clear...and on and on. How is that "fair" for a single kit. Not saying garen is the ONLY champ, but a easy one to point out.

congratulations, you have listed some of his main strengths. that still doesnt make him unfair or low risk in any way.

and his speed boost is 30%. thats one of the weakest mobility tools in the game. even other champions that are generally considered slow have faster movement speed buffs.

i think the only ones slower are morde and olaf, and olaf has his cc immunity and synergy with ghost to make up for it, while morde has at least 1 basic ability that stretches further than auto attack range.

Meep ManSep 1, 20164 votes

Garen's kit is probably one of the least "overloaded" kits a champion can have.

Reworked FioraSep 2, 20161 votes

Believe me if Garen was that strong, he'd be perma picked/banned in the LCS. Hes like a decent laner and has a good early game but thats about it.... after his early game power is gone all he really got to reliable kill people with is his ult and hes gotta get them low first before it would do anything, and its only true damage if its the "Villain". and if hes only building black cleaver like most people do he doesn't have the damage to take out a squishy before they can react and kite backwards. I rarely have problems with Garen, unless I'm playing Riven hes not that hard to fight against.

PermabannedGarenSep 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xKFGVQj0,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-08-27T09:48:08.923+0000)

i dont see any buffs on PBE notes. the hell is he talking about?

also, garen isnt low risk. he actually has to commit to fights. he isnt a mechanical intensitive champion, but the lack of escape mechanisms and his weakness to kiting makes him as risky to play as squishier champions.

you take longer to die, but if youre making a mistake youre more likely guaranteed to die without having any effect in return.

and high reward is laughable aswell. he has nowhere near the pentakill potential of a lot of hypercarries in this game. those are high reward champions.

Garen isn't high risk.

He's just bad, lol.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.deaths&order=descend&roleSort=Top

Very few top laners are statistically as unlikely to die as Garen.

Critmaster GarenSep 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Garen isn't high risk.

He's just bad, lol.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.deaths&order=descend&roleSort=Top

Very few top laners are statistically as unlikely to die as Garen.

i didnt say hes more risky than other top laners to play. i just said hes not a low risk champion.

and he isnt high reward either. his carry potential is nowhere near the same as some of the hypercarry adc, assassins, or some of the other bruisers.

a lot of the low risk, high reward champions are actually mid laners like Leblanc who tend to die less than other champions on average while racking up a lot more kills on average.

which is not surprising with her kit.

PermabannedGarenSep 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xKFGVQj0,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2016-09-01T11:25:43.603+0000)

i didnt say hes more risky than other top laners to play. i just said hes not a low risk champion.

and he isnt high reward either. his carry potential is nowhere near the same as some of the hypercarry adc, assassins, or some of the other bruisers.

a lot of the low risk, high reward champions are actually mid laners like who tend to die less than other champions on average while racking up a lot more kills on average.

which is not surprising with her kit.

No, he is low risk.

I agree, he isn't high reward. He's bad.

I agree, LeBlanc is low risk for an assassin and tends to not die very often while still having huge mobility and damage potential. But guess what? She still is statistically more risky than Garen.

Meep ManSep 1, 20162 votes

Any remotely durable champions will naturally die less than champions that are less durable.

PermabannedGarenSep 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xKFGVQj0,comment-id=00050001000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-01T15:40:35.565+0000)

Any remotely durable champions will naturally die less than champions that are less durable.

Correct, tanky champions are generally less risky.

GULAG 4 USep 2, 20161 votes

and aatrox is high risk no low reward k?

PermabannedGarenSep 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

and aatrox is high risk no low reward k?

archerno1Aug 27, 20166 votes

What high reward? Being kited by anything, not being able to do anything useful? Garen is low risk no reward champion

OxyPoroAug 27, 20165 votes

{quoted}

What high reward? Being kited by anything, not being able to do anything useful? Garen is low risk no reward champion

I'd call him high risk minimal reward, becaue the risk is high that you lose because "Garen" and the ip gains will be minimal.

WoonStruckAug 27, 20166 votes

I was going to upvote this thread due to all of the APs currently building Rylai's+Abyssal and still being able to 100-0 people while being unburstable themselves, and champions like Gangplank...but then you said Garen.

OxyPoroAug 27, 20163 votes

Garen is trash, utter and complete garbage, they could probably massively buff him and he still won't ever see LCS play because he brings practically nothing to the table but damage, which he has no reliable way of applying.

The disorganized nature of DQ is the only reason he even works there and even then he's not doing particularly hot.

Spicy RiceAug 27, 20163 votes

I came in expecting a yasuo hate thread.

I am mildly disappointed...

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Mira Arya EntheAug 27, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=AZ Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xKFGVQj0,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-27T09:14:47.149+0000)

Riot quotes something like "we want to have high risk, high reward champs to make your decision making more enjoyable" YET...we still buff the champs that take no skill to play and have them carry games.. i.e Garen. LOW RISK HIGH REWARD. THIS GAME IS FOR THE BIRDS RITO.[zombie-brand-clap]

Anybody like Garen, Shyvana, Olaf and the like who MUST commit to a team fight because they don't have escape once they go in, are high risk. They also tend to have low rewards. As they don't offer lots of CC, team fight control or easily access offensive power. Just because they are easy to play, doesn't mean they are easy to win with. You have to be a lot more careful with your decisions on Garen and Shyvana than you do on say Ekko and Riven. Because playing both Riven and Shyvana myself. Once I go in on Shyvana, commit to a 'gank'(If you can call what she does a gank) or get into a certain position. I am 100% all in. Riven I can knock some people up, stun people, execute damage(high reward) and if things do not go well can shield and multi-dash out of the fight(low risk).

Meep ManSep 1, 20162 votes

Never knew straight up running into the enemy team with no mechanics to get out was low risk.

Treune81Aug 27, 20161 votes

Lissandra low risk high reward champ.Meanwhile Azir high risk low reward.

Oblivious DenialAug 27, 20164 votes

Azir has a game changing ult that can single handedly win any teamfight. He also has insanely high ranged magic DPS. With a good front line and the right itemization, I can easily destroy an entire team with Azir. Hell, even tanks don't stand a chance against a late game Azir (not even MR helps, since Void Staff is my fourth-fifth item). Azir can also poke nearly anyone out of lane and can deny CS easily due to his nature as a control mage. If you don't know how to play against an Azir, you will get utterly destroyed. He's the antinoob mid laner; noobs can't play him and noobs can't beat him.[slayer-jinx-wink]

Treune81Aug 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hybrid Cub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xKFGVQj0,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-08-27T09:47:25.129+0000)

Azir has a game changing ult that can single handedly win any teamfight. He also has insanely high ranged magic DPS. With a good front line and the right itemization, I can easily destroy an entire team with Azir. Hell, even tanks don't stand a chance against a late game Azir (not even MR helps, since Void Staff is my fourth-fifth item). Azir can also poke nearly anyone out of lane and can deny CS easily due to his nature as a control mage. If you don't know how to play against an Azir, you will get utterly destroyed. He's the antinoob mid laner; noobs can't play him and noobs can't beat him.[slayer-jinx-wink]

Azir is high risk low reward.Azir mains win rate 43%.You may be bronze but

Top Azir's Wordwide

43.58% Win Rate

Analyzing 257 games played by the top 468 Azir players worldwide over the last 7 days. The average rank of the top Azir's was Diamond I.

Taking into account win rate and summoner rank Azir is ranked 92 amongst all champions in the hands of an expert.

Maximum 50 summoners are used per region with a minimum of Diamond V and 50 games played on Azir to be elegible.

Treune81Aug 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hybrid Cub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xKFGVQj0,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-08-27T09:47:25.129+0000)

Azir has a game changing ult that can single handedly win any teamfight. He also has insanely high ranged magic DPS. With a good front line and the right itemization, I can easily destroy an entire team with Azir. Hell, even tanks don't stand a chance against a late game Azir (not even MR helps, since Void Staff is my fourth-fifth item). Azir can also poke nearly anyone out of lane and can deny CS easily due to his nature as a control mage. If you don't know how to play against an Azir, you will get utterly destroyed. He's the antinoob mid laner; noobs can't play him and noobs can't beat him.[slayer-jinx-wink]

This statistic enough for you.Learn Azir's situation.

A little PeepoAug 31, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Lissandra low risk high reward champ.Meanwhile Azir high risk low reward.

You obviously don't play lissandra do you? She is a squishy mage that needs to get in your face to unleash her combo. Azir can technically burst you with his soldiers from a safe distance and will out damage a lissandra any day. Lissandra already has low base values and ratios with some pretty high mana costs and no defensive boosts while she's in the center of a team fight so she basically comes to you. Not saying lissandra is weak because she's a great champion in coordinated game play but I'd rather go against a fed lissandra than a fed Azir any day.

Treune81Sep 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You obviously don't play lissandra do you? She is a squishy mage that needs to get in your face to unleash her combo. Azir can technically burst you with his soldiers from a safe distance and will out damage a lissandra any day. Lissandra already has low base values and ratios with some pretty high mana costs and no defensive boosts while she's in the center of a team fight so she basically comes to you. Not saying lissandra is weak because she's a great champion in coordinated game play but I'd rather go against a fed lissandra than a fed Azir any day.

I played Lissandra.Lissandra is low risk high reward champion.0 risk.Meanwhile Lissandra is op at competitive now.

A little PeepoSep 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I played Lissandra.Lissandra is low risk high reward champion.0 risk.Meanwhile Lissandra is op at competitive now.

How is having to go in into the middle of a team 0 risk? I mean Azir does that as well but at least he gets a shield and can knock back enemies away from him. I can see how lissandra is a strong pick in competitive because she has a kit that rewards her with coordinated team play but fucks her over in uncoordinated solo queue.

Treune81Sep 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

How is having to go in into the middle of a team 0 risk? I mean Azir does that as well but at least he gets a shield and can knock back enemies away from him. I can see how lissandra is a strong pick in competitive because she has a kit that rewards her with coordinated team play but fucks her over in uncoordinated solo queue.

Lissandra's braindead burst and ult.Freekill for every gank.

japan hate accSep 1, 20162 votes

K Level 8.

Treune81Sep 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

K Level 8.

Ok bronze.

japan hate accSep 2, 20161 votes

Yes. I am Bronze. But you're a level eight player; I'm level thirty. I still know much more than you do for now. You don't see me telling Plats or stuff that I know better about game knowledge, because i don't. I know my place, and you need to know your's.

Treune81Sep 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes. I am Bronze. But you're a level eight player; I'm level thirty. I still know much more than you do for now. You don't see me telling Plats or stuff that I know better about game knowledge, because i don't. I know my place, and you need to know your's.

You're bronze.Bad player.But I'm 8 lv.Smurf.Difference is this.Cry more.You idiotic downvoter crykid.

japan hate accSep 2, 20161 votes

K buddy.

A little PeepoSep 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lissandra's braindead burst and ult.Freekill for every gank.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "brain dead burst" per say because her damage isn't anything special and champions like lux, Annie, Oriana, syndra, Veigar , viktor, velkoz, ect will deal more damage than she will. I do agree that her ult is a free kill for every gank and wouldn't say her issue lies in damage but rather CC and being ranged.

To be honest top lane is the reject lane where every champion who does less than average on their designated lane goes. Range has always been an issue especially when going up against melee champions who just get fucked against it, that's just something that will not change anytime soon. But the main issue with lissandra is the fact that she has too much CC and essentially fills the role of a support with damage in a team, she has the power to lock down an entire team in place sort of how amumu does or a leona would. The nerfs that were addressed to her would NOT fix lissandra and would just be useless nerfs to her kit for nothing. Her issue isn't really the mana costs because she already suffers from high mana costs because of her somewhat useless passive.

Some adequate nerfs that could be given to her are to reduce the stasis effect on her ult when she targets herself to give her more risk because obviously you think she is 0 risk lol and if her laning phase is too oppressive maybe reduce the base on her Q to something like 80/100/120/140/160 and increase the ap ratio or just increase the damage on her aoe snare to give more risk into her kit.

Over all lissandra has a really weird kit because she has no durability for being an all in cc mage where as Azir does or other all in mages like Diana, ect. Her passive punishes her with high mana costs and a low base mana regen and has a pretty shitty range for going mid lane. The only thing that keeps her viable is the cc and the fact most top layers get destroyed by the all might range.

Treune81Sep 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't go as far as to say "brain dead burst" per say because her damage isn't anything special and champions like lux, Annie, Oriana, syndra, Veigar , viktor, velkoz, ect will deal more damage than she will. I do agree that her ult is a free kill for every gank and wouldn't say her issue lies in damage but rather CC and being ranged.

To be honest top lane is the reject lane where every champion who does less than average on their designated lane goes. Range has always been an issue especially when going up against melee champions who just get fucked against it, that's just something that will not change anytime soon. But the main issue with lissandra is the fact that she has too much CC and essentially fills the role of a support with damage in a team, she has the power to lock down an entire team in place sort of how amumu does or a leona would. The nerfs that were addressed to her would NOT fix lissandra and would just be useless nerfs to her kit for nothing. Her issue isn't really the mana costs because she already suffers from high mana costs because of her somewhat useless passive.

Some adequate nerfs that could be given to her are to reduce the stasis effect on her ult when she targets herself to give her more risk because obviously you think she is 0 risk lol and if her laning phase is too oppressive maybe reduce the base on her Q to something like 80/100/120/140/160 and increase the ap ratio or just increase the damage on her aoe snare to give more risk into her kit.

Over all lissandra has a really weird kit because she has no durability for being an all in cc mage where as Azir does or other all in mages like Diana, ect. Her passive punishes her with high mana costs and a low base mana regen and has a pretty shitty range for going mid lane. The only thing that keeps her viable is the cc and the fact most top layers get destroyed by the all might range.

https://www.twitch.tv/lck1/v/86928938

Watch 01:08:42

Braindead burst.More burst than Viktor.Absurdity.Moreover late game.Every gank free kill I'm sure.

A little PeepoSep 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

https://www.twitch.tv/lck1/v/86928938

Watch 01:08:42

Braindead burst.More burst than Viktor.Absurdity.Moreover late game.Every gank free kill I'm sure.

Any champion with 400 cs by 30 minutes with a full item build and on top of that a protobelt will deal a lot of brain dead burst damage. Also compare the base damages and ratios viktor and lissandra have because lissandra sits at like a .6 to .5 in most of her abilities where as viktor is sitting at much higher ratios, those ratios do matter once u have a lot of ap on your end. That lissandra is sitting with a death cap, zonyas, protobelt, void staff, boots and almost a banshee at 30 fucking minutes xD that much ap while people aren't even sitting at max level, an annie would 100-0 you with a tibbers easily or Veigar would 1 shot u with his ult. Nothing out of the ordinary here, the only thing ur right about is the free gank potential.

Treune81Sep 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Any champion with 400 cs by 30 minutes with a full item build and on top of that a protobelt will deal a lot of brain dead burst damage. Also compare the base damages and ratios viktor and lissandra have because lissandra sits at like a .6 to .5 in most of her abilities where as viktor is sitting at much higher ratios, those ratios do matter once u have a lot of ap on your end. That lissandra is sitting with a death cap, zonyas, protobelt, void staff, boots and almost a banshee at 30 fucking minutes xD that much ap while people aren't even sitting at max level, an annie would 100-0 you with a tibbers easily or Veigar would 1 shot u with his ult. Nothing out of the ordinary here, the only thing ur right about is the free gank potential.

So her damage is very high and she does a ton damage.Also she has hard CC and a lot things.So she needs more nerf.I don't care Annie.Annie hasn't stupid hard CC and stupid ult.

You haven't counterplay unless QSS.Absurdity.I hope she gets same treatment like Malzahar.

FioraWillCarrySep 1, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather go against a fed lissandra than a fed Azir any day.

Fed Azirs are actually a thing still ?

Reworked FioraSep 2, 20161 votes

lul wot Lissandra is like an zhoyas engage squishy. She doesn't really do a ton of damage but gets picks with her ults and pulls resources in teamfights then ults herself to stay alive more like High risk, decent reward. And Azir is a powerhouse in the right hands, if you can mange soldiers properly, low risk, high reward

Treune81Sep 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reworked Fiora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xKFGVQj0,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2016-09-02T00:58:11.433+0000)

lul wot Lissandra is like an zhoyas engage squishy. She doesn't really do a ton of damage but gets picks with her ults and pulls resources in teamfights then ults herself to stay alive more like High risk, decent reward. And Azir is a powerhouse in the right hands, if you can mange soldiers properly, low risk, high reward

Wtf.She really does a ton of damage.Wait.

https://www.twitch.tv/lck1/v/86928938

Watch 01:08:42. Lissandra's damage is very high.

Azir is high risk low reward right now.Lissandra is low risk high reward!

Also Lissandra's damage is very high teamfight.You must ult yourself.

Treune81Sep 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reworked Fiora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xKFGVQj0,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2016-09-02T00:58:11.433+0000)

lul wot Lissandra is like an zhoyas engage squishy. She doesn't really do a ton of damage but gets picks with her ults and pulls resources in teamfights then ults herself to stay alive more like High risk, decent reward. And Azir is a powerhouse in the right hands, if you can mange soldiers properly, low risk, high reward

Also Azir high risk 0 reward.Evidence.

Top Azir's Wordwide

39.13% Win Rate

Analyzing 207 games played by the top 468 Azir players worldwide over the last 7 days. The average rank of the top Azir's was Diamond I.

Taking into account win rate and summoner rank Azir is ranked 97 amongst all champions in the hands of an expert.

Maximum 50 summoners are used per region with a minimum of Diamond V and 50 games played on Azir to be elegible.

Treune81Aug 27, 20161 votes

Azir is high risk low reward Liss low risk high reward

Top Lissandra's Wordwide

53.82% Win Rate

Analyzing 1048 games played by the top 401 Lissandra players worldwide over the last 7 days. The average rank of the top Lissandra's was Diamond II.

Taking into account win rate and summoner rank Lissandra is ranked 23 amongst all champions in the hands of an expert.

Maximum 50 summoners are used per region with a minimum of Diamond V and 50 games played on Lissandra to be elegible.

l Dárius lSep 2, 20161 votes

Garen sucks. His kit is basically Darius but with one combo and an ult that is really just worse in every possible aspect. Master Yi sucks. He provides nothing for his team and requires a lot of items to do REAL damage, but by that point he is dead as often as a stun hits him. Ekko isn't op what so ever. Pick a champion who punishes getting close to you and you win. The only reason I would call Yas op right now is because of his bugfix last patch. Before that I thought he was underpowered unless you built tank but anyone who plays Yas because he is fun probably doesn't build tank. The only real low risk high reward champions I can think of at the moment normally can kite and have a stun or can get slows off really fast OR abuse Rylais

Treune81Sep 2, 20161 votes

Viktor doesn't make more damage than Lissandra.Viktor's damage is DPS after rework.