Have a feeling it is, but just wanted to check to not hope on a revert anymore and move on knowing there's nothing we can do as players about it. Just looking to start maining different champs if it's not considered anymore. Waste of 1m+ mastery points dedicated, though. Planned to get 2m, but rework isn't enjoyable as before.
DarkPh0enix7 votesRito be like:
New Rengar is totally an assassin!
That you know is coming from half the map away
Whose biggest source of damage cannot be prepared before he comes for yoU
Who has a %damage taken heal
Get this
His W is a defensive skill that you should (ideally) wait 1.5 seconds before using to make the most of it but if you use it early and then use your empowered Q (you know, your fucking "assasination tool") you will no longer have an escape or a sustain
If you keep it, you will not kill the target fast enough and it will probably escape so good luck
WHAT THE FUCK?!
Astoreth5 votes[{quoted}](name=FK LANA,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJ6dQEJ0,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-12-30T17:01:33.819+0000)
Rito be like:
New Rengar is totally an assassin!
That you know is coming from half the map away
Whose biggest source of damage cannot be prepared before he comes for yoU
Who has a %damage taken heal
Get this
His W is a defensive skill that you should (ideally) wait 1.5 seconds before using to make the most of it but if you use it early and then use your empowered Q (you know, your fucking "assasination tool") you will no longer have an escape or a sustain
If you keep it, you will not kill the target fast enough and it will probably escape so good luck
WHAT THE FUCK?!
Wait, you gotta make a choice? not just blindly use empowered Q?
DarkPh0enix4 votesA choice that says either kill your target and die or get away and not kill your target?
Eedat5 votesEvery experienced Rengo main I've talked to really likes the new Rengo. He still 100-0 one shots people and actually has a means to escape afterwards.
Dreadlocks2 voteswell u just met 2 who dont.
Al Pochino1 votesMake it 3.
ReZisT Lust4 votesId like his q to be changed back
WatchThePower1 votesNo idea why there is so much circlejerk. New Rengar will be healthier than old rengar once riot balances numbers. Old Rengar was the most binary champion in the game. His W and Q feel so much more interactive than before and his skillcap has increased dramatically. He's not even clunky people are just fucking bad at the champion and haven't gotten used to his animations yet.
Astoreth2 votesNo idea why there is so much circlejerk. New Rengar will be healthier than old rengar once riot balances numbers. Old Rengar was the most binary champion in the game. His W and Q feel so much more interactive than before and his skillcap has increased dramatically. He's not even clunky people are just fucking bad at the champion and haven't gotten used to his animations yet.
I love you for understanding the state of current Rengar. The circlejerk is mostly because they are afraid of the nerfs it might get that could send him down the drain.... But trial and error, we will get there eventually n.n
Dreadlocks1 votesYou have no idea what you are talking about lol.
WatchThePower1 votesUnlucky that boards is full of retards that don't know anything about the game. Wish there was an elo filter on boards x)
Rengar Top Lane5 votesNo idea why there is so much circlejerk. New Rengar will be healthier than old rengar once riot balances numbers. Old Rengar was the most binary champion in the game. His W and Q feel so much more interactive than before and his skillcap has increased dramatically. He's not even clunky people are just fucking bad at the champion and haven't gotten used to his animations yet.
You are clueless if you believe tweaking his numbers is the problem. If there are people that think as you do on the development team, he will eventually be olaf'd because you only care for his numbers. Old Rengar was not the most binary champion... I assume you play League in a universe where even more binary champions such as Mundo, Blitz, Jax, Tryn, Annie, etc exist. His skillcap hasn't increased dramatically. Just have to get used to ganking without ferocity or manage to stack ferocity on a scuttle, ward, or previous enemy, delay ferocity decay, ganking with no stacks at 6, and rest is pretty much braindead. Just build bruiser and abuse cc immunity and 50% heal. Q to kill and E to bola when neccessary. He's far more clunky than the bola change they did on Rengar a while back. You haven't played Rengar if you don't believe he isn't clunky. At this point, I'm assuming you're an adc main, but most likely just a confused player. I tried not to reply to most on this thread and just get Riot's attention. But I disliked seeing an ignorant post such as this when you know nothing about Rengar before and after.
As you can see, no Riot staff member has replied because they still have no clue what to do with Rengar.
WatchThePower1 votesDude I've literally mained rengar for years, the champion was the definition of binary. Mundo Blitz Jax Tryn aren't what I'd call binary, they are still useful even if they don't have the level advantage/gold to 1 shot a squishy. Blitz needs to land pull, but the fact that he can do that even while behind makes him far from binary, Annie is pretty binary, riot tried to fix that, no argument there, but saying that old rengar, which was a ball of stats that was literally a hypercarry lifesteal tank, wasn't binary, is kind of silly. New Rengar can still be useful even if he's behind by changing his build, and he scales into the late game well as someone who can get into teamfights and deal damage to the backline, not just instant death that can only be stopped via pink wards, stacking, and good reaction times.
Rengar Top Lane4 votesDude I've literally mained rengar for years, the champion was the definition of binary. Mundo Blitz Jax Tryn aren't what I'd call binary, they are still useful even if they don't have the level advantage/gold to 1 shot a squishy. Blitz needs to land pull, but the fact that he can do that even while behind makes him far from binary, Annie is pretty binary, riot tried to fix that, no argument there, but saying that old rengar, which was a ball of stats that was literally a hypercarry lifesteal tank, wasn't binary, is kind of silly. New Rengar can still be useful even if he's behind by changing his build, and he scales into the late game well as someone who can get into teamfights and deal damage to the backline, not just instant death that can only be stopped via pink wards, stacking, and good reaction times.
Assuming you never explored support Rengar nor played Rengar from behind correctly. HIs true vision was still useful and it was the only time you forced yourself into building bruiser to do what reworked Rengar is currently doing. Only difference is lack of cc immunity/cleanse. Rengar is NOT a bruiser, he's meant to be played as an assassin. Not build 2 damage items then full tank and play as if he was an assassin.
Al Pochino1 votesAmen!!!
WatchThePower1 votesI never actually check boards, but uh. I played Rengar support and I was very familiar with playing Rengar from behind. I was challenger when I made the comment about Rengar being healthier than before. Rengar's old ult was probably the most broken spell in the game, true vision for 12-20 seconds on a 42 second cooldown? Yes it was a part of Rengar's kit I enjoyed, but it was broken and there really isn't a counterargument to that............ another thing is that you're arguing that Rengar wasn't/isn't binary, but you're arguing that he should be played as an assassin? What a contradiction. Also guess what, Riot balanced new Rengar without reverting to the shitty champion you so desperately miss.
Rengar Top Lane2 votesI never actually check boards, but uh. I played Rengar support and I was very familiar with playing Rengar from behind. I was challenger when I made the comment about Rengar being healthier than before. Rengar's old ult was probably the most broken spell in the game, true vision for 12-20 seconds on a 42 second cooldown? Yes it was a part of Rengar's kit I enjoyed, but it was broken and there really isn't a counterargument to that............ another thing is that you're arguing that Rengar wasn't/isn't binary, but you're arguing that he should be played as an assassin? What a contradiction. Also guess what, Riot balanced new Rengar without reverting to the shitty champion you so desperately miss.
The true vision was useful if and when you could benefit from it. Other than that, it just served as a "Hey, the enemy is here type of thing. Is enemy doing baron? We have any blue trinkets? No? I'll pop ult type of thing". Plus if you did use it to scout, you put yourself in a shithole if a fight broke out shortly after using it. You were definitely up shit creak if your team couldn't capitalize on your ult when used for scouting. It's not as if it gave true vision of all enemies and nuked the entire team. It's not as if you gained true vision of everyone and instantly teleported in a bush somewhere to cold card, Q, and aa delete a carry.
The issue with it was people got tired of being instant-gibbed from stealth and bringing back his true vision while reverting other Q/W (removing the % heal since you can literally heal for thousands as bruiser) would feel better overall. Of course the removal of crit when Q is active would help as well.
The current Rengar players only enjoy the new one because of how strong he is. Once he's nerfed to the ground (olaf'd), majority of people such as you will turn away from him and complain and bitch about him being weak. And they aren't going to buff him because of how strong the reworked version was after.
Yes, I'm arguing he should be played as an assassin. It's his sole identity to be played as an assassin. Rengar shouldn't have his primary role set as a Bruiser/Tank with a kit designed for an assassin. If you bring up his "W had resistances on it when active plus a heal", only thing to say to that is they had no clue what to actually put there to fit the roar. A fear would have been broken and damage reduction fits tanks. So, what is there to put there? He already has a slow on his E, so can't do double CC. More damage?
Plus the removal of his perks from ultimate being changed to flat bonus attack damage? That's a bullshit swap they made and it only made building bruiser even better. Buy 2 items for ad -> build armor and you're set. You don't have to be afraid of anything because you can delete people AND heal for shit tons of damage, take a beating, and walk away with cleanse. At least reverted tank rengar did not do aoe damage and heal for up to 100% of damage dealt and cleanse off cc.
Also, you had to invest in cdr to achieve that 42 second cooldown by the way. On top of that, you had to invest in damage to do your job. There was no buy a cleaver and start deleting people the rest of the game. As I said before, that ultimate was your bread and butter because once you blew it the enemy team could take advantage of it.
From personal Rengar main to "Rengar main", if you believe the previous version was shitty, you're just another meta slave in my eyes. And I hope that's not your main account since I only see diamond rankings on it.
Hope your binary as hell reworked Rengar gets nerfed to the ground, bud.
WatchThePower2 votesYou're actually retarded. I never said I finished challenger in a season, but this account was challenger 400 lp a few months ago. Look buddy, you don't know shit about this game. If you think old rengar was playable and decent after the 6.3 nerfs from last season, you're kidding yourself, and it's because you've never played above d5. You can play anything in low diamond. You never even got to SEE old rengar's shit viability ceiling. His old ultimate was broken. It was a free baron check, and I have no idea how you don't realize how broken a 42 second cooldown is. It was so easy to stall out a fight and wait on your ult, and even if a fight did break out around baron pit, it didn't mater because most of the area you would be fighting in is within leap range regardless. New Rengar isn't fun because it's busted, it's fun because you have actual counterplay to CC and OUTPLAY potential. Old rengar's outplay potential was a joke. 99% of old rengar's outplays were just lifesteal tanking with crit. Link me your opgg retard, I'd love to see your d5 0lp, 48% wr rengar stats.
Rengar Top Lane3 votesYou're actually retarded. I never said I finished challenger in a season, but this account was challenger 400 lp a few months ago. Look buddy, you don't know shit about this game. If you think old rengar was playable and decent after the 6.3 nerfs from last season, you're kidding yourself, and it's because you've never played above d5. You can play anything in low diamond. You never even got to SEE old rengar's shit viability ceiling. His old ultimate was broken. It was a free baron check, and I have no idea how you don't realize how broken a 42 second cooldown is. It was so easy to stall out a fight and wait on your ult, and even if a fight did break out around baron pit, it didn't mater because most of the area you would be fighting in is within leap range regardless. New Rengar isn't fun because it's busted, it's fun because you have actual counterplay to CC and OUTPLAY potential. Old rengar's outplay potential was a joke. 99% of old rengar's outplays were just lifesteal tanking with crit. Link me your opgg retard, I'd love to see your d5 0lp, 48% wr rengar stats.
Lol, you're still playing ranked with Rengar and think you're some how good? Would trash you anyday top lane with old rengar and most definitely the new one. Keep duo queueing with d5's bud. You know nothing about abusing Rengar to his fullest potential.
Old ultimate was a scouting check. You blow it and you put your team in a position where you may or may not be able to enter a fight that breaks out when it goes on cd. Smart enemy team would pressure you before 42 seconds passed. Have fun counterplaying me in lane when I can heal 100% off the damage in our fights then wait 16-18 seconds to do it again or zone you at level 1,2 , 3.
Anyways, off to play ark until this shitty rework gets reverted. Later child that will be hardstuck d5.
Zétanta1 votes+1
The Monado2 votesYou're actually retarded. I never said I finished challenger in a season, but this account was challenger 400 lp a few months ago. Look buddy, you don't know shit about this game. If you think old rengar was playable and decent after the 6.3 nerfs from last season, you're kidding yourself, and it's because you've never played above d5. You can play anything in low diamond. You never even got to SEE old rengar's shit viability ceiling. His old ultimate was broken. It was a free baron check, and I have no idea how you don't realize how broken a 42 second cooldown is. It was so easy to stall out a fight and wait on your ult, and even if a fight did break out around baron pit, it didn't mater because most of the area you would be fighting in is within leap range regardless. New Rengar isn't fun because it's busted, it's fun because you have actual counterplay to CC and OUTPLAY potential. Old rengar's outplay potential was a joke. 99% of old rengar's outplays were just lifesteal tanking with crit. Link me your opgg retard, I'd love to see your d5 0lp, 48% wr rengar stats.
Dissapointed. I came to this thread to look at people's opinions on the new rengar rework. Some discussion. Instead I see a some %%% (you) taking an opinion and responding to it with you're actually retarded and you don't know shit about this game. Glad you have the argument capabilities of a 12 year old. Insulting people instead of bringing up counterpoints. You're a sad honestly.
Zétanta1 votesYou're actually retarded. I never said I finished challenger in a season, but this account was challenger 400 lp a few months ago. Look buddy, you don't know shit about this game. If you think old rengar was playable and decent after the 6.3 nerfs from last season, you're kidding yourself, and it's because you've never played above d5. You can play anything in low diamond. You never even got to SEE old rengar's shit viability ceiling. His old ultimate was broken. It was a free baron check, and I have no idea how you don't realize how broken a 42 second cooldown is. It was so easy to stall out a fight and wait on your ult, and even if a fight did break out around baron pit, it didn't mater because most of the area you would be fighting in is within leap range regardless. New Rengar isn't fun because it's busted, it's fun because you have actual counterplay to CC and OUTPLAY potential. Old rengar's outplay potential was a joke. 99% of old rengar's outplays were just lifesteal tanking with crit. Link me your opgg retard, I'd love to see your d5 0lp, 48% wr rengar stats.
Dude you dont know shit about Rengar. The reworked Rengar is a clunky piece of dogshit and i would trash you anywhere anytime with both old and new Rengar you boosted ape. Go to your duoqueue buddys and suck their cock to get boosted by them.
WatchThePower1 votesI'll actually 1v1 you on EUW with 120 ping just to prove how bad you are at league <3
Dreadlocks3 votesI feel yuh man, I have abt 850k between all my accs and I don't rly play him now... same thing happened with shen for me except I didn't main shen the way I did rengar... I've moved on sadly.. aside from him not feeling as fun or smooth, he's banned too often to really be worth maining.
Teridax682 votesThe problem with Rengar isn't that his rework made him worse, it's that it just didn't improve him enough. By all rights, he was extremely poorly designed prior to the rework, and so the changes were an improvement, but at the end of it he's still an unhealthy champion who can one-shot squishies from invisibility. He needs an additional rework, one that definitively prevents him from bursting his opponents down within the first second of combat, and only then will he start becoming a healthier champion.
flomper2 votesYou can't just act like rengar being able one shot is the problem. Champions one shot this will never change and rengar is only one of many that can kill one-shot. If you just take away rengars burst damage there will be literally be no reason to build damage on him if even pick him at all and he would pretty much lose all his existing fan base that still remains because people play him to be an assassin not a tank with no cc.
Teridax681 votesIt is a problem when the champion able to one-shot you can also get to you reliably. Despite the changes to camouflage, Rengar can still quickly reach squishy targets without them receiving much forewarning beyond an indicator: that much is fine, but if you combine it with a ton of front-loaded burst, that makes for a very unstable champion who will either kill or die within the first second or so of entering combat. Rengar is part Diver: by all rights, he should be taking more time than other assassins to kill his target, especially since he has so much raw autoattacking power and utility, and so his burst should be mostly back-loaded, not front-loaded. You can't expect a champion to be healthy when you concentrate practically all of their possible interaction within a second of fighting.
Ahristocats2 votesoneshoting is not a design problem
oneshotting from stealth is a problem
rengar rework not only increased the time you need to kill someone, but also gave his stealth a lot of counterplay
Dısdaın4 votesAre you serious? Rengar can still oneshot out of stealth, but now you only need 2 damage items for it without a combo.
Ahristocats2 votesthat must explain why his win rate is 47%
Dısdaın2 votesThe assassin build has a negative winrate, but the bruiser build is strong af and has a positive winrate.
Ahristocats1 voteshttps://gyazo.com/9d1c56fb2736d8bd4a12773756907b44
50% win rate
broken, oneshot with a bruiser build
Dısdaın2 votesThis build got played in only 40 games. Look at op.gg.
Teridax681 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJ6dQEJ0,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2017-01-01T11:21:02.180+0000)
oneshoting is not a design problem
oneshotting from stealth is a problem
"... at the end of it he's still an unhealthy champion who can one-shot squishies from invisibility"
That is what I said. Rengar one-shotting people would be mostly okay if he had trouble reaching his targets, and Rengar just initiating from stealth is mostly fine. Doing both, i.e. having reliable target access and front-loaded burst, does not work, and leads to the exact kind of situation we have now with him. His stealth has more counterplay, but that counterplay is not significant enough to enable sufficient interaction, or make his initiation truly unreliable. In any case, though, that's not what it should do, because the entire point of stealth is to prevent detection while you go for a target. In Rengar's particular case, his one-shot really is the problem, and his rework should have done much more to get rid of it.
Al Pochino1 votesThen i guess Shaco should get Nerfed too?
Ahristocats1 votesif shaco kills you with one hit from Q then you have an other problem
Radiant Wukong1 votesNever used old Rengar (I sucked, even when he was 1st released, I just can't jg with him, too complicated for me), but played with/against him a lot and people who used him normally seemed oppressive.
Can you tell me the differences?
Joseph Gladstone3 voteshonestly the rework was just to try to give some counterplay and to make him more unique i guess, and that goal didn't get achieved at all, i dont play rengar much either
Dreadlocks4 votesthe difference is pretty big. but in short, they made a smooth methodical champ into a clunky mess that abuses high amounts of AD to do similar things as before.
Quepha3 votes[{quoted}](name=0laf Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJ6dQEJ0,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-12-30T17:09:23.633+0000)
a clunky mess that abuses high amounts of AD
That sounds like old Rengar
Dreadlocks2 votesthey made his E clunky forsure but he didn't abuse AD... he abused crit.
NefariousQuack2 votesThat sounds like old Rengar
It's both, but new Rengar also goes against his theme and feels absolutely shit to play.
FairAndBalanced1 voteshigh amounts of AD to do similar things as before.
yup
Dreadlocks1 votesyep
Phoenix Kotori 1 votesIt's almost like being about to do your whole combo in .01 seconds in problematic for game healthy
Dreadlocks2 votesExcept there is no combo anymore.. looool and i still 1 shot ppl in under a second.
Ahristocats1 votesall they had to do is not make him able to use hydra while jumping, was it hard to do? nop, did they do it? nop
FairAndBalanced1 votesLike 90% of champs can use all there abilities all at once. Why is does rengar need to be the exception?
