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How is Riven doing 1000-1800 damage AAs fair?

Nihilistic Snek·Aug 23, 2018·4 votes·2,018 views

Look at this for her build: https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2851473962/1981846168095008?tab=overview

One auto, literally did 1795 damage. Since that item doesn't have any downsides whatsoever, this could happen every two seconds. This only amplified her dps to complete bullshit levels because her damage sources are in her abilities, so the synergy was perfect. How is that fair? Even before full build, with two or three items, the autos would do 1000 each time stormrazor was up. What's the counterplay to this when she can literally one shot everyone on your team while also having 40% cdr so she can shield every four seconds?

EDIT: Video footage. Also, I'm not claiming Riven is over/underpowered. I'm just making a point about this seeming unfair.

988 Damage: https://vimeo.com/user88717276/review/286283898/0b858720ef

1068 Damage: https://vimeo.com/user88717276/review/286283995/780f1c3862

1795 Damage: https://vimeo.com/user88717276/review/286284036/861b1384f9

34 Comments

Colton147Aug 23, 20183 votes

Riven is a very mechanically intensive champion.

Automated RivenAug 23, 20184 votes

That's not valid reasoning for inbalances.

RexxieeAug 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAYizF0j,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-23T01:45:26.978+0000)

That's not valid reasoning for inbalances.

Yes, but riven has been below average for like the whole season, and she still is.

I dont know how can anyone complain about riven in 2018, when shes like the hardest champ in the game to play while having a lower reward than most of the meta picks.

Automated RivenAug 23, 20181 votes

Riven isn't weak. She just isn't overpowered. She has a stable 50% winrate. That is the definition of balanced. Stop championing for buffs please. Your making us look bad.

GlîtchyAug 23, 20184 votes

{quoted}

is a very mechanically intensive champion.

mechanically intensive behavior is no excuse for over 1K damage on autos especially on a champ who doesn't run on man/energy/HP to help keep them viable but not overwhelming.

MrFawknSunshineAug 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

mechanically intensive behavior is no excuse for over 1K damage on autos especially on a champ who doesn't run on man/energy/HP to help keep them viable but not overwhelming.

yet she scales on bonus damage and a basic auto isnt doing that , its most likely an empowered auto from her passive /q stacks and she has armor pen and storm razor to do crit on the next auto with its passive. so taking all that into account... well

but she wouldnt of been doing that damage if she didnt get fed in the 1st place. look at the team comp

graves, lucian, yas, soraka, mf vs riven, j4, teemo, taric, kai sa

who on his team suppose to stop , cc, and tank the riven from getting to his team

Automated RivenAug 23, 20183 votes

No. It's a bug. Her passive is supposed to give 25-50% AD on hit. But currently that bonus is critting.

~~That same build~~ A simular build without the crit and duskblade would be doing like 800 per auto. Which is fine. Hit an adc for 1600 damage with only an auto is a bit over the top tho.

edited for clarity

MrFawknSunshineAug 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAYizF0j,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-23T01:55:17.941+0000)

No. It's a bug. Her passive is supposed to give 25-50% AD on hit. But currently that bonus is critting.

bug or not. that isnt why they lost.

Automated RivenAug 23, 20182 votes

Ya. I agree with your analysis. However, the absurd amount of damage behind 1 auto is in fact a bug. I just wanted to point that out.

ManslayerAug 23, 20181 votes

That bug wont add 800 damage to her auto attacks. If we consider her passive adds, let's say 250 damage that would 500 more dmg. To it would be more around 1100-1200 dmg then the bug.

Automated RivenAug 23, 20182 votes

No. However a typical riven build won't have stormrazer. Which does add 800 damage. Because it's a crit.

ManslayerAug 23, 20181 votes

Okay but based off what math ever? If you have 800 attack damage than you add 400 on top and that crits, sure that is 400 dmg. But then the original 800 would crit. That would be WAY over 1600 dmg.

So if you have, say 500 attack damage that adds 2502 (2501.6)?. That math wont add up for the numbers you used is what I mean.

Because her passive is half of her current ad so at 500 ad she will ad 250. It doesn't give 50% of her current dmg on auto.

Automated RivenAug 23, 20181 votes

Based on the build riven had 75 ad RH 60ad gostblade 60 AD duskblade 75 ad stormrazer 40 ad LDR

Plus say 20 for masteries and a base of 118

That's 448 + 20% from ult is 537 plus 50% from passive (assuming level 18) is 805 per auto.

A crit on that is 1610 before reductions in armor.

Adding in duskblade makes it entirely reasonable that she would hit 1850-1900 damage on a single aa.

I said her autos would be doing 800 damage. Not her attack damage stat would be 800. Now without the bug her autos would be doing (on a crit) 1309.

IMHO stormrazer should be ranged only. Meaning riven's autos on a full offense build should be hitting around 800 damage before reductions.

Sorry if I worded it poorly and caused confusion.

ManslayerAug 23, 20181 votes

That's what I mean, it would deal like 1200 or w/e with the stormrazor crit with normal passive calculations. Guess I just misunderstood what you meant.

Automated RivenAug 23, 20181 votes

no thats my bad. I specified the same build which would imply the crit. Which means my further comment "without a crit" doesnt make sense. Ima edit it to be more clear.

Sona PingAug 23, 20183 votes

I take it that's how damage she was doing to you. Because it's not a "Riven thing".

It's fair because it's that player who played well in enough in that match to get six and a half thousand gold ahead of you and all the items he built increased his auto attack damage and multiple items had armor pen. while you, on the other hand, were a squishy champion who built no additional armor.

"What's the counterplay to this..."

You cannot play a capture-the-flag match and then, when the opponent is four points from winning say: _ "How is that fair? We have to score six times as many points as them to win!"_ Your opportunities to score points existed all through out the game before then but they were not taken. Same as with any champion.

Nihilistic SnekAug 23, 20181 votes

So, because my team feeds her so she gets ahead, it's totally balanced to have zero counterplay and one shot everyone in the game? I don't agree with that logic whatsoever.

MrFawknSunshineAug 23, 20182 votes

all i see is the better team wins.

one team has 3 ranged adcs and yasou /raka vs a proper team comp

who is suppose to stop the riven from getting to lucian? graves? mf? who is to cc her and lock her down?

Nihilistic SnekAug 23, 20181 votes

That's all you see? What about the fact that whenever she would AA, she would do close to 2000 damage? How do you not see that as a problem? This doesn't even take into consideration her abilities, making her dps somewhere in the thousands.

MrFawknSunshineAug 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nihilistic Snek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAYizF0j,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-23T02:15:23.635+0000)

That's all you see? What about the fact that whenever she would AA, she would do close to 2000 damage? How do you not see that as a problem? This doesn't even take into consideration her abilities, making her dps somewhere in the thousands.

like i said BUG OR NOT you had a bad team comp didnt build to face her. and she is an incredible snowbally type of champ if ahead no one can really deal with her.

so lets take that bug out. say it didnt happen. you most likely would of lost regardless due to team comp

Nihilistic SnekAug 23, 20181 votes

I don't care about losing or winning in this situation, I care about the fact that she did, on multiple occasions, one shot me with an auto.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 23, 20182 votes

The downside to the item is that Riven doesn't use AS at all. She has no synergy with it.

She also doesn't buy crit, so it's stuck at the 160% damage, not 200%.

Also, there's now way in hell she was hitting for that much damage per auto, unless she also had Dark Harvest or something.

Nihilistic SnekAug 23, 20181 votes

I can show you the fucking replay. The highest damage auto was 1795, like I just said.

ManslayerAug 23, 20181 votes

She uses attack damage. Saying she can't use attack speed is just a false statement. She boosts her own AD by a lot, and benefits from auto attacking, therefore, attack speed is perfectly fine on her.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 23, 20182 votes

Okay, except just because you build AD doesn't mean you'll ever use AS.

Zed builds AD, but you'll never see him get AS outside of simply having Precision. Same for most assassins.

Riven is a fighter/skirmisher/diver/whatever the fuck, and not an assassin, sure, but she plays a lot like one. 90% abilities, and your primary reason to use autos is to proc other abilities (Talon's passive, Zed's passive, Electrocute early on, and, here, Riven's passive).

ManslayerAug 25, 20181 votes

Riven is a fighter/assassin, similar to Yasuo. Attack speed may not be the most appealing choice of offensive stat but she scales with it better than a mage and better than a support or a tank. Zed being able to get one more auto in his assassination attempt may secure the kill. The AS DOES syngerize with AD and with Riven, just not to the most extreme high levels of synergy. To say it has NO synergy is simply wrong.

Automated RivenAug 23, 20181 votes

Riven likes low levels of attack speed. It makes her animation canceling faster and smoother. Its just not something she wants to pay for, Getting like 10-20% for free is super good on riven.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 23, 20181 votes

So...Pretty much she only really uses the AS from taking Precision as a primary/secondary?

ChallengerSorakaAug 23, 20182 votes

when you dont build armor?

Nihilistic SnekAug 23, 20181 votes

item 3036

Automated RivenAug 23, 20182 votes

tabis still reduces the damage by 10%. That is 179 damage. and aditional armor will reduce it farther. for example, you are effectively at zero armor due to the pen she has. and Armor is the most effective at low levels. So having like 60 bonus armor bringing your effective armor up to like 30 or 40 reduces her damage by an aditional like 20-30% which is another 500 damage.

AlienPrimateAug 23, 20182 votes

It doesn't matter which champion you are playing when you have 28 kills by yourself and your enemy has 23 kills combined.

I could make a thread complaining about how broken Kassadin is after this game too, but I'm not going to because I know it was only because he was absurdly fed.

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2847382221/209287161?tab=overview

Automated RivenAug 23, 20181 votes

Riven currently has a bug which allows her passive damage to crit. ~~So it looks like the riven in your match history had about 350 ad. *20% is 420. And 50% of that is 210 for a total of 630 Ad which multiplied by two is 1260.~~

~~Now this is a bug. So it should be around 600 or something with a zero defense build. And then reducable by armor. ~~

Now that being said you clearly got comboed, you did not get hit for 1700 damage in 1 auto attack. Maybe three over the course of a combo. But without seeing a replay there is no mathimatical rational to claim that.

(My bad I didn't see duskblade. Damn being blind. )

She probably 1shot you with duskblade and the extra AD I didn't account for. That being said, stormrazer is a bullshit item that should not stack with duskblade and the bug in riven's passive will be fixed eventually.

MrFawknSunshineAug 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAYizF0j,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-23T01:50:14.412+0000)

Riven currently has a bug which allows her passive damage to crit. So it looks like the riven in your match history had about 350 ad. *20% is 420. And 50% of that is 210 for a total of 630 Ad which multiplied by two is 1260.

Now this is a bug. So it should be around 600 or something with a zero defense build. And then reducable by armor.

Now that being said you clearly got comboed, you did not get hit for 1700 damage in 1 auto attack. Maybe three over the course of a combo. But without seeing a replay there is no mathimatical rational to claim that.

bug or not look at the team comps. also look at his teams build no one has any armor at all to sustain the damage output of riven. graves had ninja tabs only and yasou had a chain vest.

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