How come Dead Man's Plate can be a tank item that gives movement speed but

Netroq·Oct 22, 2015·45 votes·4,658 views

we can't have Force of Nature?

81 Comments

JbelsOct 22, 201583 votes

Gonna be honest, my mind subconsciously filled in the rest of the question with "But Graves can't have a cigar?"

L RayquazaOct 22, 201511 votes

Same here, I'm happy I atleast patched my computer to use the cigar artwork

RolldembonesOct 22, 20152 votes

I assumed this would be the comment.

FantasySniperOct 23, 20152 votes

I came for that, but got disappointed.

rtbf37907892Oct 23, 20152 votes

I think most of us came here expecting a good chuckle.

redniwediSOct 22, 201528 votes

Two reasons.

Movement speed wasn't the true problem with Force of Nature.
It's been years. You can't apply ideas from Riot's current philosophy to old items and expect to make a sound argument out of it.

JedenVojakOct 22, 20152 votes

Riot's current philosophy with items is completely wrong, and the route they've been taking has been largely anti-fun.

redniwediSOct 22, 20157 votes

It's literally their game, and their items. How can they be wrong when all they are doing is putting their opinion into their work?

You might not like how things are, but that doesn't make them wrong, and that doesn't make it anti-fun for everyone.

Kuroi86Oct 23, 20154 votes

It's literally their game, and their items. How can they be wrong when all they are doing is putting their opinion into their work?

Dang, didn't think anyone else out there had realized this. >_>

JedenVojakOct 23, 20152 votes

No, this is the internet. Therefore I'm right and everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong.

redniwediSOct 23, 20152 votes

That doesn't actually have anything to do with the internet. People are like that irl.

NightOfLightOct 23, 20151 votes

How about make it the opposite of Dead Mans, get movement speed for spell use and you can auto after a certain amount of spells used to deal good damage. To balance this the spell used needs to be taken from a resource ie mana. Also less mr but add a health stat to it.

TotalJerkOct 22, 201522 votes

Because 76 magic resist.

For CarthageOct 23, 20158 votes

What a really odd number.

Couldn't even just stop at 75. Had to go one over. Wooo, look how special you are, Force of Nature.

Fucking overachiever...

lightdragoon88Oct 22, 20158 votes

But we do.... item 3065 X item 3083

RetillinOct 22, 20151 votes

No movement bonous from those however.

Axis the DragonOct 22, 20151 votes

item 1321 Alacrity Bonus

Ayy

Old Man TeetoOct 22, 20153 votes

They didn't like FoN's stat combination, and efficiency as a single slot MR item after you had your Warmogs, Atma's, Randuins, Merc Treads, or whatever high health build your tank/bruiser used.

They instead chose to go with items that are more early/mid-game friendly and can be rushed by tanks.

You don't need any other item to make great use of Deadman's Plate.

The only item remaining with that stigma is Warmog's -- and it's pretty much a dead item currently.

ahferroin7Oct 22, 20153 votes

Lol, Warmogs is by no means dead. It is a niche item, but it's still used regularly on Mundo, somewhat often on any of Tahm Kench/Garen/Braum/Vlad/Zac, and on rare occasion on Aatrox/Shen/Singed.

JustMyBassCannonOct 23, 20153 votes

To put it explicitly. Force of Nature was making mages irrelevant at the time.

Having a single item grant 70+ MR and 1.75% HP per 5 was making it pretty much impossible for them to be relevant, because Liandry's Torment wasn't a thing, MPen was scaled backwards and their items were more expensive.

To make matters even worse, it was actually massively cost-inefficient. It was worth less than 70% of the gold spent on the stats, yet it was still so strong that it effectively negated an archetype of champions.

There's no reason to bring it back, really. MR itemization has been improved and expanded, and there isn't really a need for an item that provides just MR, HP5 and MS. If Riot ever brings back Force of Nature, it's not going to be the same item it was. It'll be like Aegis of the Legion's multitude of changes.

IcyPepperOct 22, 20151 votes

DMP is more of a bruiser item than a tank item?

BhagswagOct 22, 20152 votes

huh?

Then what's a tank-armor-health item? 400 health Randuin? or the 600 health DMP? Or the 450 health Sunfire?

Oh, DMP has 50 armor,only 10 less than randuin, but more health. Sun fire is behind at 45.

What's a better tank item?

ViashinoWizardOct 22, 201516 votes

Randuin's also has two anti-aa passives and an aoe-cc active. So yes, it's more of a tank item than DMP.

SoMNiaOct 22, 20156 votes

Since tanks need to be a threat in order to draw fire, Sunfire and Randuin's are both more "tanky" items (depends whether you have damage and need CC, or have CC and need damage). DMP is for champions who are already a threat and just need to get into the fight, and that generally means fighters more than tanks. Darius loves DMP, but Leona would rather have Sunfire.

ahferroin7Oct 22, 20155 votes

Shen Rammus Galio Not all tanks need to be a threat to draw fire...

WarlockLawOct 22, 20151 votes

Galio isn't a tank tho

PB4UAMEOct 22, 20152 votes

The true definition of a tank is one who forces aggro away from teammates. The only 4 champions in the entire game who can do this are Shen, Rammus, Braum, and Galio. Galio and Shen being the only ones who can reliably get aggro from more than one enemy, and force them to maintain that aggro for longer than 1 attack/skill.

By true definition, Galio is the best example of a tank in LoL.

WarlockLawOct 22, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The true definition of a tank is one who forces aggro away from teammates. The only 4 champions in the entire game who can do this are Shen, Rammus, Braum, and Galio. Galio and Shen being the only ones who can reliably get aggro from more than one enemy, and force them to maintain that aggro for longer than 1 attack/skill.

By true definition, Galio is the best example of a tank in LoL.

By that definition then Sejuani isn't a tank

WimbledofyOct 23, 20153 votes

Where exactly does this definition come from? I've never really heard that specific definition before and tanks in games in general "tank" damage for their team. I don't think aggro is really the core of being a tank. I can tank damage for someone without taking aggro. If cait ults my adc, I can walk in front and tank the damage.

LittleBlastOct 23, 20152 votes

Deadmans is so fun on rammus xD

MelledoneusOct 23, 20151 votes

Except for the fact that there's Fiora who can insta-delete you and laugh as she slaughters your carries.

3tysonOct 22, 20155 votes

{quoted}

DMP is more of a bruiser item than a tank item?

i say its more of a Singed item

Hotlin3 FlingOct 22, 20152 votes

So was FoN

TotalJerkOct 22, 20152 votes

It's currently one of the most efficient tanky items in the game, there's never a reason to not want movement speed, and caster tanks can simply not auto to permanently keep the 60 movementspeed.

IcyPepperOct 22, 20152 votes

Not... quite.

Stat-wise, yes. But if you consider passives, item 3143 item 3110 aren't too shabby either because they lower the enemy's dps. item 3800 is also better for initiating teamfights, since DMP only benefits yourself.

DMP isn't a terrible item on some tanks, but it's more of a bruiser item than a true tank item. It'd be good on, say, Volibear but not as great on someone like Amumu (Sejuani is up in the air, but I'd say it's okay).

TotalJerkOct 22, 20151 votes

Yes, but you build those either as an answer to something on the enemy team or as a way to shore up a hole in your own kit, meanwhile there is pretty much nothing on Deadman's plate that goes to waste on any tanky champion.

I can totally see someone like Amumu building it. He's a relatively slow tank that Autos to proc his passive, plus it allows you to get around in between Qs. The only melee champion I can possibly see being so mobile that they wouldn't make use of the movement speed is Riven.

ahferroin7Oct 22, 20153 votes

Add to the list of Melee champs who are mobile enough not to need it: Talon Zed Kassadin MasterYi LeeSin Yasuo XinZhao MonkeyKing Despite not needing it, it's still scary on Riven, and Wu, and Xin, and really scary on Yasuo.

Sire HippingtonOct 22, 20151 votes

Thats exactly the thing right now, while some champs are kept so immobile that they need it, there are enough that don't need it, but greatly benefit from it. It's prettymuch mandatory on Darius and Garen as both lost alot mobillity with the rework and need it to compensate, while others just can reach overkill status. I love it as first buy after jungleitem on most junglers, it's like better mobi boots that also give tankiness, and it's great as def-option on assasins and bruisers as it makes flanking way better, while improveing map pressence, escape and engagepotential of annyone takeing it....

TotalJerkOct 23, 20151 votes

I'm actually still seeing Dead Man's plate being built on Lee Sin in the LCS, it's become a common pick among even the most mobile tanks and bruisers.

WarlockLawOct 22, 20151 votes

Nautilus, Sejuani, Malphite, and Maokai all waste the slow that it grants because of overlapping cc. All of them would use Righteous Glory for the initiation purposes considerably better.

Sire HippingtonOct 23, 20151 votes

RG is a really bad item on most tanks, as it gives horrid stats. DP gives 200 health and 50 armor more for 250 more gold, thats +1250g worth off tankstats...

Since the nefs, RG is only good if you snowball and thus don't need aditional stats to win a fight once you engaged, or on a support.

WarlockLawOct 23, 20151 votes

Then those tanks will get Frozen Heart or Randuin's instead. My point is the passive of DMP is wasted on some tanks as it overlaps with other cc and thus doesn't do anything.

Sire HippingtonOct 23, 20151 votes

just that the slow is the last reason to get it honestly, its mostly about the ms and tankiness

Professor WardOct 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Nautilus, Sejuani, Malphite, and Maokai all waste the slow that it grants because of overlapping cc. All of them would use Righteous Glory for the initiation purposes considerably better.

ehhh nautilus scales too well with hp, hp items are almost always more efficient at effective hp on nautilus.

MetalGearTeemuOct 22, 20152 votes

Deadmans plate is a tank item by the fact that it is the highest effective hitpoints in the game vs physical in a single item.

This is what nerfing the full on tank items that don't provide mobility does for you. Bard

IcyPepperOct 22, 20153 votes

But you're just looking at raw stats.

For instance, item 3143 can help you last longer against autoattacking crit carries than DMP will. Frozen heart also lowers enemy dps, and such.

Passives should be considered as well. DMP's passive is quite offensive, making it an item that's a healthy mix of offense and defense, which the bruiser class enjoys. Tanks can use it just like how bruisers can build tank items, but it's not necessarily a pure tank item.