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Try cloth + pots / boots + pots against Zed

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39··1 votes·1,133 views

Before any people try to argue with me, this is not another "Zed is/isn't OP thread" again. This is just some strategies I learnt.

I got platium in S4 and currently Gold 2, stably rising. I believe I have some credibility and experience to express why most mana mages can't deal with Zed. Well, especially when Zed is so common nowadays. (here's my profile: http://lol.moa.tw/summoner/show/Mundo )

To jump to the point, If you are playing mana mage against Zed, you should not take item 1056 item 2003 item 2003 . I only play Lux and Xerath as mid in ranked game. They are both immobile and relies on hitting skillshots. That sounds really unfavorable against Zed. However, I have been doing pretty well after I changed my starting build against him.

  1. item 1029 item 2003 item 2003 item 2003 item 2004 item 2004
  2. item 1001 item 2003 item 2003 item 2004

The first build helps you getitem 3191 earlier. Most importantly, it reduces Zed's harass significantly. I personally take growth armor yellow, so an early cloth could cover up my early weak armor, and in late game I will have a good amount of armor. In addition, it allows you to get 3 item 2003 + 2 item 2004 , which enable you to try to be offensive. The sustain helps you outrade a lot. Although you do more damage with item 1076 , you run out of mana really fast with it, plus vulnerable to harass. You will either have to back or miss minions under turret, since Zed can push really efficiently.

The second build is for those who finds it difficult dodging Zed's Q. To be honest, Zed's early damage relies on Q. Otherwise, he has to use his shadow to get close and autoattack, since WEQ combo is not that easy due to the slow shadow projectile speed, you can at least dodge his E easily. So he has to warp to get close for some autoattack to do meaningful damage in early laning phase. If he does, he becomes vulnerable to gank for over 10 seconds. Also, your movement speed helps you get away from his shadow jump + autoattack. With less damage taken, you will stay and farm longer for item 3191 .

Another thing about WEQ:

{quoted}

you have to auto attack sometimes. if zed's standing in the wave he can easily WEQ you when you move forward to cs with an auto. it's actually pretty difficult for him to miss unless you're willing to miss the CS to juke (which you should).

I would just instantly move away. Missing 1 cs is better than getting his full combo harass. Unless you are Kalista who can't cancel aa...

After item 3191 , I build item 1056 item 1056 or item 3165 for mana regen. Before getting mana items, get 1 or 2 item 2004 whenever you back, it is really essential to deal with Zed. If you are Xerath though, you can consider rushing item 3089 or item 3157 before mana items. His passive that regens mana is so brilliant during laning phrase.

I find the first build more useful for me, because I don't find dodging Q difficult. Rushing item 3191 also grants me more AP sooner. With an early armguard from the first build, I usually outpoke Zed, and he doesn't deal enough damage to kill me even with ult. (unless I stand still and don't CC him)

Since I can do this with Xerath and Lux , it should be even easier for many mages with more mobility.

16 Comments

Dingding1232 votes

So long as you start with a good amount of armor, Crystalline Flask should work as well.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

So long as you start with a good amount of armor, Crystalline Flask should work as well.

Ya it works. Just that I prefer items that can be built upwards.

Talamare1 votes

I counter pick Zed by using Garen with Cloth Armor and a Full Armor Rune Page!

Zed is useless vs 100 Armor at level 1!

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

I counter pick Zed by using Garen with Cloth Armor and a Full Armor Rune Page!

Zed is useless vs 100 Armor at level 1!

Are you retarded? I sense your sarcasm. This is not another "Zed is/isn't OP thread". Please get out.

I can't even think of a proper word that is able to fully describe your extremely high level of ignorance.

Talamare1 votes

{quoted}

Are you retarded? I sense your sarcasm. This is not another "Zed is/isn't OP thread". Please get out.

I can't even think of a proper word that is able to fully describe your extremely high level of ignorance.

Look, just because you don't understand pro Garen tactics 100 Armor at level 1 Garen HARD COUNTERS Zed

This is just a fact

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

Look, just because you don't understand pro Garen tactics 100 Armor at level 1 Garen HARD COUNTERS Zed

This is just a fact

Stop trolling. This is not even about Garen at all.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

a lot of the mana regen from doran ring comes from the passive which gives you 4 mana per minion killed. with decent csing (not perfect) that gives you about 20 mana per minion wave.

factor in the 0.6 mana per second that doran ring grants (3mp5) and you're looking at about 200 mana gained in 150 seconds, which is the equivalent of 2 mana potions in total.

imo the primary reason that people take dorans ring is naturally for the mana sustain (or at least that's why I take it), which is a lot better than your opening offers once 2-3 minutes have passed.

i think a cloth opening has some merit in that you can rush a seekers armguard, but it exacerbates your mana problems even further especially once the 2 mana potions are gone unless you plan on picking up a dorans ring later.

I usually attribute my success in lane versus Zed to him being bad rather than myself being good. I'll give this start a try for a little while and see if it feels any better, but I have my doubts based on the above.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

a lot of the mana regen from doran ring comes from the passive which gives you 4 mana per minion killed. with decent csing (not perfect) that gives you about 20 mana per minion wave.

factor in the 0.6 mana per second that doran ring grants (3mp5) and you're looking at about 200 mana gained in 150 seconds, which is the equivalent of 2 mana potions in total.

imo the primary reason that people take dorans ring is naturally for the mana sustain (or at least that's why I take it), which is a lot better than your opening offers once 2-3 minutes have passed.

i think a cloth opening has some merit in that you can rush a seekers armguard, but it exacerbates your mana problems even further especially once the 2 mana potions are gone unless you plan on picking up a dorans ring later.

I usually attribute my success in lane versus Zed to him being bad rather than myself being good. I'll give this start a try for a little while and see if it feels any better, but I have my doubts based on the above.

Hm, that is why you need MP pots.

You can't really CS well with doran rings because you are against Zed. This also puts you into low sustain. With better sustain and less damage taken, you can just auto to clear wave more. This saves you more MP.

Your point is valid, but not against Zed.

ForgiveColour1 votes

i dont even know how people can get hit by shadow e when they are playing these long range mage

Drunk Rummate1 votes

{quoted}

i dont even know how people can get hit by shadow e when they are playing these long range mage

you have to auto attack sometimes. if zed's standing in the wave he can easily WEQ you when you move forward to cs with an auto. it's actually pretty difficult for him to miss unless you're willing to miss the CS to juke (which you should).

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

you have to auto attack sometimes. if zed's standing in the wave he can easily WEQ you when you move forward to cs with an auto. it's actually pretty difficult for him to miss unless you're willing to miss the CS to juke (which you should).

I would just instant move away. Missing 1 cs is better than getting his full combo harass, granted his combo is high on cooldown. Unless you are Kalista who can't cancel aa...

RazorTS1 votes

all you have to do is not stand behind all your minions let him chose harass you or clear waves, problem becomes when he hits 6 he starts pushing like crazy wanting you to run oom then go in for a kill, dont let it happen, i pick cass or velkoz against him late game siege mages works wonders as you can drive enemies of their towers, generally sustain or low mana cost mages works well against him just farm and follow his ganks, team up for sieges.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

Okay to follow up, I tried this earlier and ended the game with a 20 stack mejais and a 17/0/14 KDA http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1720020341/45565234?tab=overview

Stuff I noticed was that last hitting was significantly tougher without the AP since Orianna's autos scale pretty well with that, but I was able to fight a lot more effectively and I actually survived an ignite all in which probably would have killed me had I gone dorans. I ended up buying 2 doran rings on my first recall since I didn't have quite enough for an armguard and I wanted potions, and at that point everything played out normally. But if Zed had that solo kill things may have gone very differently. I'll test it further to see how it works out.

Thanks for posting your strategy OP, it's certainly been interesting to mess with.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

Okay to follow up, I tried this earlier and ended the game with a 20 stack mejais and a 17/0/14 KDA http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1720020341/45565234?tab=overview

Stuff I noticed was that last hitting was significantly tougher without the AP since Orianna's autos scale pretty well with that, but I was able to fight a lot more effectively and I actually survived an ignite all in which probably would have killed me had I gone dorans. I ended up buying 2 doran rings on my first recall since I didn't have quite enough for an armguard and I wanted potions, and at that point everything played out normally. But if Zed had that solo kill things may have gone very differently. I'll test it further to see how it works out.

Thanks for posting your strategy OP, it's certainly been interesting to mess with.

Good job. Thanks for trying. This is a really nice example.

Stonington1 votes

I think Lux especially is strong vs Zed. I don't think you need boots/pots cloth/pots to go even or beat him, but I can certainly see the logic. I prefer to just get D-ring and then go back and get another d-ring and cloth armour and pots. The hp from the rings plus the AP adding onto your shield make you virtually unkillable.

If it's pre level 6, and he switches places with his shadow to AA you, hit him with a light binding(usually in the minion wave) and get first blood. If it's post level 6 and he ults you use w to shield yourself immediately and then light bind him from behind you. If you switches away before you land your binding, congratulations. He can't kill you now.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

I think Lux especially is strong vs Zed. I don't think you need boots/pots cloth/pots to go even or beat him, but I can certainly see the logic. I prefer to just get D-ring and then go back and get another d-ring and cloth armour and pots. The hp from the rings plus the AP adding onto your shield make you virtually unkillable. Her

Problem with Lux is her terrible waveclear early game. She has to autoattack to get minions due to long cooldown. Her E costs a tremendous amount of mana. Her passive also forces her to last hit with aa. If she E, Zed can WEQ attack + dodge, and Lux loses half her harass while taking a bunch of damage. Lux also has the lowest base armor in the game. "Unkillable" is never her word, especially if you go doran's ring first.

If it's pre level 6, and he switches places with his shadow to AA you, hit him with a light binding(usually in the minion wave) and get first blood. If it's post level 6 and he ults you use w to shield yourself immediately and then light bind him from behind you. If you switches away before you land your binding, congratulations. He can't kill you now.

This kind of Zed is retarded, no offense. No Zed would jump in before you burn your Q or E. Why jump in when he can Q safely, and jump to you to dodge half your damage? Don't forget your Q and E are skillshots, and they take a long time to land.

I have played a ton of game as Lux against Zed. A Zed would never jump in before you use Q/E.

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