Putting Athenes on the recommended build for Syndra, Xerath, and assorted other mid lane mages is misleading and really should be taken off. I've had many games where the mid laner builds it because the recommended build says so even though the item doesn't really help them at all. Please remove it from the champions it doesn't benefit and leave it on the ones it does.
RiotRiot Fauxfox72 votesYeah. That seems like that should be changed. I think I saw thEntropist updating recommended items a little while back. On Monday, I'll talk to him about updating it.
Micbran10 votesAlso, viktors recommened starting items in ARAM are a little off after his hexcore costs were adjusted
FantasySniper1 votesAll ARAM recommended lists are off...
TNHA Baritone5 votesAlso buddy, Karma's recommended items are only **support **whereas Zilean has both mage and support
A Liberal5 votes
too
Vier3 votesLulu on Summoners rift starts with the AP support items and potions just as normal. The thing that bugs me is that the health potions are listed before the support items which really annoys me for some reason.
Punkkee1 votesi luv u
RiotRiot Fauxfox6 votesI love me too <3
B1naryB0t4 votesI feel empty inside my husk of apathy, completely devoid of all joy and feeling, waiting for the sweet release of death to end it all. But you seem pretty good
Icestar11869 votesYes, it really needs to be removed from anyone without a shield or heal.
OokamiNoSora4 votesexcept for 
lol
Thaurron2 votesTBH I prefer 
on champions like 
when playing mid. It offers more AP and (depending on how well you're doing) can keep you going for quite a while.
Votable Jester1 votesYeah, the extra AP adds up when you consider Rabadon's and blue buff passives.
specter4243 votesStill confused as to why in a mage update they changed the staple mid item to be a garbage support item
Playing Galio doesn't feel the same anymore
Linna Excel2 votesRiot was sick of most AP mid players were either getting it or morello's, depending on which one was better that patch, so they ruined it on purpose.
Cätbus2 votesRuined is not a fair assessment, they just changed its purpose and gave you abyssal instead.
Paroe4 votes[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wr1mAFb0,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-07-29T18:01:27.813+0000)
Riot was sick of most AP mid players were either getting it or morello's, depending on which one was better that patch, so they ruined it on purpose.
to be fair its a mini warmogs now. Its REALLY good if you want lane sustain.
TotalJerk9 votesIt's not a garbage support item, and the new Morellonomicon is amazing. They changed Athene's because the old Morellonomicon and Athene's were 2 variations of an item that served the exact same function for most champions. It's kinda hypocritical considering how they did Zeal items during the Marksman rework, but it was still their reasoning.
specter4242 votesGrail was the perfect item for Galio now its shit and morellonomicon isn't amazing, the grievous wounds aspect of it is shit compared to an 800 gold ad item
TotalJerk5 votesIt's unfortunate that Galio got fucked by that change, but keep in mind stuff like this happens every time an item is reworked/removed. The Grievous Wounds passive being shit because it's essentially a free addon to an item that most mages would buy regardless. It's something that has functionally no tradeoff for going after.
dapositiveviking1 votesplus, galio has been listed for a big vgu so they're probably not doing a lot for him until then
It Hertz When IP2 votesNew Abyssal is also nice on him.
Cätbus4 votesAlso the grievous wound passive is not shit especially now when Swain and Vlad are in the meta, and even late game against ad carries its minorly helpful
darkestkhan4 votesYeah, it helps, assuming you manage to get your target below 35% max hp...
It Hertz When IP2 votesOn a burst mage, that shouldn't be too much of a problem against ADCs.
Tonyob201 votesStill leaves you with swain and vladimir. Vladimir top, swain mid, yi jungle, sona support and draven adc. Lategame scenario: ur fcked. Morellonomicon's passive isn't strong enough to stop all the healing those champs have. They all have their own sustain, and sona's heal to boot. Of course they don't have that much cc, but still. I want spell vamp back btw. A fed vayne can't get bursted down, because between being invisible, jumping around like a monkey, lifesteal and 3 autoattacks doing easily over 1500 damage, you don't have the time to deal with the other 4 people on her team who are taking your towers down while your team trys to deal with vayne. I think the tower buff was just plain not smart by the way. 3 aa dealing massive true damage is strong enough. Vayne kills squishies and tanks and dragons and barons with ease. Adding towers to that list was not cool. Anyway, if a ranged squishy champ can have crazy sustain, i don't see why a melee squishy shouldn't have that ability.
Sardonic Sloth1 votesIt's not a garbage support item, and the new Morellonomicon is amazing. They changed Athene's because the old Morellonomicon and Athene's were 2 variations of an item that served the exact same function for most champions. It's kinda hypocritical considering how they did Zeal items during the Marksman rework, but it was still their reasoning.
Nothing about that is hypocritical, all the seal items serve distinct different purposes and each of them is bought regularly, while between old Grail and Morellonomicron Morellos was literally the ebst choice in 99% of all cases, so it was totally sensical to remove Grail as an AP item.
TotalJerk2 votesStatistically the items are almost the same. The passives create a little variation, but they're hardly more distinct from one another than Athene's and Morello's were. Also 99% is a huge exaggeration, Morrelo's was the better choice about 60-70% of the time, but Athene's gave even more mana regen and a little bit of magic resist. Plus Chalice was a much better mana sustain item early on than forbidden idol.
The Fast1 votesEach Zeal item serves a strategic niche, while the stats they give are the same/similar, their purposes are otherwise VERY different. Athene's and Morrelo's had a Defensive/Offensive thing going on, but rarely were they ever considered even in power. Most of the time, one was just flat better than the other, first Grail, then Morello's.
Current Zeal items each have a specific use case and win condition they are playing towards. Firecannon is Siege and Poke, Shiv is waveclear, and PD is Kite/Dueling. Morello/Grail was basically a choice between MR or more AP, and the choice more or less purely came down to which ever one was more gold efficient at the time.
VoidStaresBack2 votes+1, the item changes in the mid-year mage update turned it into a more support mage item than a standard mage item.
Drugoth2 votesSaying that Athene's doesn't help at all is stretching a bit. It still gives good CDR, AP and mana regen which are all valuable stats on a mage. The only part that doesn't really help them much is the passive.
Cätbus3 votesSo..Zekes Harbinger and Ardent Censer are also good on mid mages right?
Odinakos1 votesArdent is godlike on Sona whatever lane because ti gives an almost permanent AS and magic dmg on hit aura that is huge for teamfights and objective, while she makes good use of all the stats even thought they are subpar!
But really its stupid for Athenes to be on recomended for ap mids. I saw Ori build it first while i was Raka. Thx god it was Aram and the mistake didnt matter as she didnt finish it. Phew.
DarkRitual2 votesAthene's is actually good on Ori. It's good on Sona, but she's got more buildpath options now, and I'm not convinced the Athene's one is best yet.
Drugoth2 votesI don't think you get my point. I was pointing out the fact that you were being excessively exaggerative stating that it doesn't help_"at all"_
Gosh Darn2 votesI wish they would just revert Athene's. Support builds are already overflowing with CDR, healing/shielding supports in particular are even more prone to wasting CDR. I don't buy Athene's on anyone except maybe Morgana because Janna, Lulu, Sona, Soraka, and more are better off with censor/mikael's.
At the very least they need to lower the CDR to 10% so It's not wasted.
Odinakos2 votesYou buy it on certain circumstances. Most of the times for a support that dish some dmg around and heals a lot, when you snow ball and want some more combat stats to expand your lead. That means you probably are better with AP route so cdr is not wasted (20 athenes, 10 aegis item 10 from SS+gold item). But can understand that it can become problem for supports that also want ardent like Sona that overcaps cdr by 10.
Gosh Darn2 votesMikael's and censor are the better options for increasing shielding/healing. AP is better for just straight up increasing healing by utilizing AP ratios than the blood well. There are way too many extremely potent support/utility items that have CDR to ever consider Athene's. You're paying for wasted CDR, too much mana regen, and magic resist.
DarkRitual2 votesI don't even buy it on Sona anymore. The prime "dish some damage and heal a lot" support.
Odinakos2 votesSona caps at 40 with income item, boots, ardent and aegis item(usually locket) thats why it may not be so great. But you can go athenes instead of aegis item and change boots to mobis or w/e and still be at 40. Ardent and Athenes give a huge powerspike to Sona.
DarkRitual1 votes
I usually build something like this, with some minor adjustments depending on unique game needs.
It's not a damage build, so it's not suggested if the team is light on damage.
It's a hyper-supportive build, where you are more often moving the team around with E to outrotate the other team, and you use ult to make picks. Diminuendo in skirmishes is also absurdly powerful.
It's more of a playstyle difference, where you play more enchantress and protection than bursty-poke.
Odinakos2 votes{quoted} It's more of a playstyle difference, where you play more enchantress and protection than bursty-poke.
Oh totally agree with that, Sona can build so many ways. Depending on playstyle and team comps you can come with a couple different item builds. I dont know if i can streamline a build with her unlike eg Zyra that i have a standard route(Eye of watchers, sorcs, guise, rylais) with rare small deviations. Thats why i consider her interesting as support.
Anyway i consider Athenes a good item just because along with Ardent, they give Sona a mid game powerspike for a somewhat cheap cost. And midgame matters a lot these days. Thats why it is considered the stronger build by a lot of people.
rtbf221479702 votesI love the irony though. They design an item and name it after someone known for their Ryze gameplay, then after a falling out gut it and make it unusable by Ryze...
Tonyob201 votesWait what? Refresh that story please :D
rtbf221479701 votesTldr, This guy was a featured lol streamer who mained Ryze. Was controversially perma banned for gaming matchmaking with a friend in plat to insure penalty free dodges etc. They named the item after him before all this happened and never changed it because it was core on Ryze. Imo he's a douche like Tyler 1 and got what he deserved, check him on YouTube.
Spartan45678902 voteswhot he fuck cares about galio wtf
DarkRitual7 votesMore people than care about your opinion of him.
Athenes Lulu2 votesIf that's the case, remove Morello's and/or replace them with Athene's on supports as well.
A Liberal2 votesWell, to be fair many supports could utilize a morellos but not an Athene's. New athene's is such a niche item, a lot of people can't properly utilize it.