Just wanting to get everyone's opinion on the new info and vids about the assassin rework.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lec-xdUXdE
I personally love what they've done with Talon, thin k LB seems like a fair champion to fight now and clearly more into deceiving instead of just being annoying. That seats reserved for 
. Rengar seems like Rengar just more upset and...unstoppable and Kat is the faceroll pentakiller htat has ruined everyone gamemode in rotation.
Troy2426212 votesThey need to leave Shaco the f*** alone is what I think
His ult dropping boxes and fearing and his ability to drop W while invis (Still reveals briefly) are okay I guess but his early game is being gutted. His identity is his early game and splitpushing, and they obviously want to kill both of those things.
That's fine I guess but this puts power into his W, his LEAST USEFUL SKILL, because it gets 1 shot by a rolling breeze.
Best Ekko NA2 votesOf course everyone is going to complain at first. It's been the same everytime they re-worked a champion (Fiora, Gangplank, Mordekaiser, Poppy, Taric, Yorick, Darius, etc). Yes they ARE nerfs to the champions but they are pretty much required in order for Riot to add true depth to League of Legends. For every ability in the game there needs to be some method of counter play. When it comes to the majority of assassins (Katarina, Leblanc, Talon) and some older champions pre-rework such as Poppy, Fiora, Taric, etc. there simply is NO counter play even remotely possible. These champions identities are purely based around the enemy having zero counter play and because of this they are or were either too strong or completely useless depending on how they were buffed or nurfed.
In order to fix these problems Riot is required to change their kits in a way that will remove the "point and click to kill" skills and tenancies and instead replace them with things that require players to plan out and think about how they will use their abilities to kill their desired targets. (aka Talon's new wall jump, Katarina's new Dagger, etc.)
It does suck that the champions everyone loved are no longer the same but the fact that everyone who doesn't play those champions had to deal with the champions that are these "snowballing disasters" is equally as bad and need to be considered.
Cannotbename1 votesOf course everyone is going to complain at first. It's been the same everytime they re-worked a champion (Fiora, Gangplank, Mordekaiser, Poppy, Taric, Yorick, Darius, etc). Yes they ARE nerfs to the champions but they are pretty much required in order for Riot to add true depth to League of Legends. For every ability in the game there needs to be some method of counter play. When it comes to the majority of assassins (Katarina, Leblanc, Talon) and some older champions pre-rework such as Poppy, Fiora, Taric, etc. there simply is NO counter play even remotely possible. These champions identities are purely based around the enemy having zero counter play and because of this they are or were either too strong or completely useless depending on how they were buffed or nurfed.
In order to fix these problems Riot is required to change their kits in a way that will remove the "point and click to kill" skills and tenancies and instead replace them with things that require players to plan out and think about how they will use their abilities to kill their desired targets. (aka Talon's new wall jump, Katarina's new Dagger, etc.)
It does suck that the champions everyone loved are no longer the same but the fact that everyone who doesn't play those champions had to deal with the champions that are these "snowballing disasters" is equally as bad and need to be considered.
But you do realize assassin is about absolute, short killing time and precise killing right? You can make them interactive, but certainly not like a fighter, or even a tank...like the miserable fizz...
zrWQMdGHtY1 votesAs I said the last 100 times and a month ago when people said I'm insane and overacting. Katarina's rework is horrible and it should not exist, because it A) ruins her uniqueness, by making her a mage draven B) it's a huge nerf to her ACTUAL mobility, and a buff to her in combat mobility which is stupid, because she's instant dead the moment someones clicks on her... Who needs a during combat mobility to STAY IN COMBAT with that drastically low basic health the first place? Like wot... C) doesn't improve lane phase at all, only way you can farm and do something is if you waste shunpo on farming so you can trigger the W, to hit minions so u can get CS and maybe if the enemy is stupid to stay near your droped dagger to take damage... Aka enemy has brain = Lane phase is worse than before...
Knalxz1 votesHonestly right now all she does is hang back, go in, blow people up and get resets to blow up more people. She certainly was hurt by the removal of DGF like every AP assassin but she still was just this blade throwing penta killer with her entire kit revolving around auto targeting/point click spells spells.
If anything that was everyone's biggest complaint about fighting. The only way to avoid being hit by all four of her abilities was to not be near her, whichc you don't need me to tell you that's crazy. With melees and other close ranged champions fighting her was basically a death sentence. The only way to stop her was to focus her which honestly is a terrible design choice since focus should kill anyone and not be her only weakness that the enemy can exploit.
Judging from your name it's clear you love Kat but you have to admit she wasn't without her game breaking problems like most assassins.
I never really played her since my cousin played her alot when we did out Talon Kat bot lane. All I can ask you is, what would you do to make her less of a walking wave of destruction but still be able to destroy entire teams fairly?
zrWQMdGHtY1 votesATM 99% of champs counter her if she's played basic... so please no... She is the most balanced of them all and... and if the ADC has maw in full build vs full build 1v1, Katarina will lose to any ADC, especially to Jhin who can instant kill her b4 she even shunpoes on him....
Gave a bigger though on the rework and at the end I just realized... She lost all her mobility, how will she chase? Her only damage input is her Q E, her W is basically useless in chasing enemy... She needs herQ up every time and to pray that the enemy wont go in big distance of the fallen random location blade, which can fall on a blue buff small minion and you're rip with the chase, your basic shunpo CD wont be that small neither your Q, you totally lose chase potential and you lose mobility (aka escapes on lane phase), you're "buff" as lane phase is to pray your Q drops in a good spot and the enemy doesn't stay away of it, which wont happen... Basically your lane phase gets worse, your kill chase gets worse, your mobility is nearly completely removed... True you gain 3 shunpoes in combat, but what's the point? you shunpo 3 times in the middle of the enemy, the shunpo dmg itself is 0 because do 2 shunpoes on your Q, the Q damage itself will be buffed but losses the mark DOUBLE dmg and u need to pray it drops correct for you to do passive damage which doesn't even rely on you... Basically she becomes from good and skilled to a luck based weirdo that can only pray for good Q drops and no instant CC while she does the 2 shunpo combo and 3rd to escape if bad and u can only escape if you are close to an enemy. She losses her mobility buff, which was the only way to counter brusers (with rylai), now you lose that ability, you're basically a walking free kill now...
So tell me, is it worth to destroy her completely with a terrible rework and claim that it's good?
Knalxz1 votesI was going to have this massive post explaining why everything you said is actually true but doesn't matter or just fat out wrong with the rework but you'd know this if you we're in the PBE so I'm just assuming you're not and I think all of your concerns will float away the moment you get used to her rework. If anything she's somehow more lethal in combat which is the point.
Like I said before she's still the penta killer she just kind of needs to set up the stage before the play can start.
zrWQMdGHtY2 votesI literally... (Going way too leafyishere mode with that word), wanna bite you on the neck for not considering the fact, that I don't have an issue with the rework itself, from what I understood and saw I'll most likely master it in less than a week, BUT I WONT. Now you say "Why Kapy Pie?", I'll tell you my friend. Because... My dear and lovely friend from the united states of Murica... I wont be able to pick her for a minimum of 4 months. Now you my little sweet friend will ask "why my sweet and awesome katarina main !", because my friend and comrade, she's going to be a perma pick, perma ban. And now you'll say "Why is that an issue most adorable kapy, named kitty". I answer to this as always! Because I play LoL because of Katarina, to play Katarina, only for Katarina. I dodge when someone picks her, I am depressed to hell when she's banned (1 year of twitch/rengar maining while she was perma banned 1-2 years ago) AND best, but not least... I'm done NOT playing Katarina... I click League of LEgends, click play. Go in solo Q, select Kat. Now after the rework, I wont be able to do it, because of people who don't even give a buzz about her, but play her because she's currently OP, then they'll ban her and then after 4 months she'll be nerfed in the same state as now but new kit...
Basically my point : Mains (real onces not the rip off artists), will manage to master her months later, when she's in a weak state. Aka like current but new kit.
My whole point = Literally no reason to rework her for 4 months of glory if she'll be in the same state as before, because this kit is more broken than the current one and more impossible to tweak. You are basically punishing the real Kat mains, for few months of money winning from the new guys playing her wasting on skins for her and later never playing her again! Cheers for ruining half my season and my mood for half a year until I get to play her! I am never... Ever... Playing twich again, so basically I wont be able to play LoL and I'll waste my money in OW, to Blizzard, instead to Riot ! Okay... Good enough? We still gonna argue how wrong I am just cuz I don't have a PBE acc? We still gonna say how toxic I am? Yeah, she's worth been toxic for, she's worth all the headaches I spent on her! My chose of life, I live with it... I just hate when my chose of live is getting ruined in a pointless way for a pointless reason...
Knalxz1 votesThat makes alot of sense and I know where you're coming from. It doesn't really fix the problem it just...makes it look more flashy.
Honestly I'm a bit fearful of what will happen to Talon. I know people will pick him alot because of his rework and Will likely ruin his image. Riot will nerf him and he'll just be in the same spot as before but, just more flashy.
It's either that or have a champion be an S rank pick which means they're perma banned.
zrWQMdGHtY2 votesAmused, someone finally understood what I said. You deserve a cookie now.
Talinis1 votesFizz AP ratios on LIVE
Q (.35 (also applies .3 active from W and .45 dot from W passive))
W (.45 dot, .30 active per auto)
E (.75)
R (1)
20% damage amp to all ratios except R (so multiply Q, W, E above by an additional 20%)
New Fizz on PBE
Q (.35, applies .30 W dot to all targets hit by Q)
W (.30 dot, .3 active for ONE auto. If you save it, does .9 after 2 seconds)
E (.75)
R (.5 - 1 AP + (.3 W dot but remember they don't stack if you hit shark and Q)
Fizz does significantly more damage on live, in less time, then current fizz with ratios. He is also not dependent on sitting in melee for 2 seconds to do his damage and is not dependent on hitting a very slow moving shark at max range.
HOWEVER, they buffed his base damages in replacement for removing the 20% amp and buffing base damages is good for.... wait for it... AD TANK FIZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is what Riot was trying to kill in the first place!!!!! And now needing to live in a team fight for more than 2 seconds.... TANK FIZZ!!! In moving their bases around, they ultimately kept his base damage the same as it is on live damage wise.
With current numbers, AP itemization and how other champions work (adcs kill fizz in .5 seconds late) I will be surprised if he ever attains above a 30% win rate going AP. W would need to basically 1 shot an ADC 100 - 0 if the kit is going to work for AP with the extreme lack of tools the champion has.
BTW: The below is my favorite and will have me laughing the entire way as I uninstall league, having mained fizz from when he first came out in S2 until the day assassin update comes out. Riot posted what they wanted to do with fizz and then less than a week after posting it, this is what they do.
Riot wanted to improve his laning phase by ... nerfing it??
Riot wanted to move damage from his E to elsewhere on the kit by... not moving it????
Riot wanted to showcase fizz's initiation power by.... nerfing his initiation and only making the shark slightly stronger if he hits the mythical max range shark on carry while nerfing the rest of the follow up damage????
Riot wanted to make Fizz the hardest to peel assassin above all other assassins by... doing absolutely nothing to his average in class mobility while nerfing the R slow unless max range???????
Riot wanted to make fizz play with his food by ..... having him just stand in melee poking with base damage autos for 2 seconds until he can do the same damage as what he does on live in that same time period?????????????????
Riot wanted to make assassins less feast and famine (more useful when behind) by...... requiring a behind in gold fizz to live in melee for 2 full seconds to do overall less damage then on live and when people engage on him that his shark slows less and does half the damage??????????????
I don't think riot even knows what they are talking about and what they are doing when they say things like this and do the exact opposite. It proves horrific ignorance to how the champion works and plays and is how they are going to and are losing a lot of players. I mean how can you actually nerf the laning phase (which is something Riot said that in PARTICULAR they wanted to buff when he's behind) by having a flat 40 mana cost for W to clear one wave and being so shortsighted to actually have the base numbers take 45 - 105 mana for just half the wave. Funny thing is the mana cost on W isn't even the problem, it's being in a ranged lane and having no tools besides a super high CD/mana cost E to avoid the constant spell poke from opponents (his craptastic passive which reduces auto attack damage doesn't even work on the spells they are flinging out, it's made for top lane (so he can ghost in between minions to poke and take reduced autos in trades), NOT mid lane). So bad it's comical :).
Pierce The Veal1 votesLiterally the same for Akali.
Cannotbename1 votesI like the new fizz, it is so laughably bad for AP that I want them to put it live so they can see how horrible they are at balancing and knowing how fizz works. He will only be viable as a tank build now. There is no way AP fizz will work late game when ADC 2 - 3 shots you within .5 seconds and now ADS in general will abuse the new AD Zhonya item to spell block Fizz's shark all day. Current Fizz does MORE damage with current W than the W on PBE. Remember, Q used to apply W's active, now it does not (won't be active unless you don't want the bonus damage on proc) so fizz Q + 2 autos ON LIVE = W active AFTER 2 seconds on PBE. Oh, and the live version gets that off before 2 seconds. Second, you lost damage from shark. Only bads get hit from max range shark in a team fight setting unless they are the tank. Everyone knows you have to Q to target and throw shark or it won't hit as everyone and their grandma will just step side it or use a mobility tool. Third, you lost damage from E and Q because shark doesn't give 20% ratio anymore, which means you lost even MORE damage from W and his dot is weaker.
Fizz AP ratios on LIVE
Q (.35 (also applies .3 active from W and .45 dot from W passive))
W (.45 dot, .30 active per auto)
E (.75)
R (1)
20% damage amp to all ratios except R (so multiply Q, W, E above by an additional 20%)
New Fizz on PBE
Q (.35, applies .30 W dot to all targets hit by Q)
W (.30 dot, .3 active for ONE auto. If you save it, does .9 after 2 seconds)
E (.75)
R (.5 - 1 AP + (.3 W dot but remember they don't stack if you hit shark and Q)
No damage amp.
Fizz does significantly more damage on live, in less time, then current fizz with ratios. He is also not dependent on sitting in melee for 2 seconds to do his damage and is not dependent on hitting a very slow moving shark at max range.
HOWEVER, they buffed his base damages in replacement for removing the 20% amp and buffing base damages is good for.... wait for it... AD TANK FIZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is what Riot was trying to kill in the first place!!!!! And now needing to live in a team fight for more than 2 seconds.... TANK FIZZ!!! In moving their bases around, they ultimately kept his base damage the same as it is on live damage wise.
With current numbers, AP itemization and how other champions work (adcs kill fizz in .5 seconds late) I will be surprised if he ever attains above a 30% win rate going AP. W would need to basically 1 shot an ADC 100 - 0 if the kit is going to work for AP with the extreme lack of tools the champion has.
BTW: The below is my favorite and will have me laughing the entire way as I uninstall league, having mained fizz from when he first came out in S2 until the day assassin update comes out. Riot posted what they wanted to do with fizz and then less than a week after posting it, this is what they do.
Riot wanted to improve his laning phase by ... nerfing it??
Riot wanted to move damage from his E to elsewhere on the kit by... not moving it????
Riot wanted to showcase fizz's initiation power by.... nerfing his initiation and only making the shark slightly stronger if he hits the mythical max range shark on carry while nerfing the rest of the follow up damage????
Riot wanted to make Fizz the hardest to peel assassin above all other assassins by... doing absolutely nothing to his average in class mobility while nerfing the R slow unless max range???????
Riot wanted to make fizz play with his food by ..... having him just stand in melee poking with base damage autos for 2 seconds until he can do the same damage as what he does on live in that same time period?????????????????
Riot wanted to make assassins less feast and famine (more useful when behind) by...... requiring a behind in gold fizz to live in melee for 2 full seconds to do overall less damage then on live and when people engage on him that his shark slows less and does half the damage??????????????
I don't think riot even knows what they are talking about and what they are doing when they say things like this and do the exact opposite. It proves horrific ignorance to how the champion works and plays and is how they are going to and are losing a lot of players. I mean how can you actually nerf the laning phase (which is something Riot said that in PARTICULAR they wanted to buff when he's behind) by having a flat 40 mana cost for W to clear one wave and being so shortsighted to actually have the base numbers take 45 - 105 mana for just half the wave. Funny thing is the mana cost on W isn't even the problem, it's being in a ranged lane and having no tools besides a super high CD/mana cost E to avoid the constant spell poke from opponents (his craptastic passive which reduces auto attack damage doesn't even work on the spells they are flinging out, it's made for top lane (so he can ghost in between minions to poke and take reduced autos in trades), NOT mid lane). So bad it's comical :).
very true, the malicious, intentionally disrespectful rework ruined my favourite and it certainly makes me think about giving up lol.
Fatesbell1 votesi mean kats rework is better for combat if your team is there but every thing els is much much worse.... although there are some fun new tricks with the new kit i dunno maybe once im more use to it it'll be better doubts