Does anyone else think the less used Summoner Spells should be reworked?

Knalxz·Jan 21, 2015·122 votes·15,106 views

Strategic diversity dies at the summoner spells.

There are only 6 summoners that are used and those are,

One for each role and one for the every role.

The others aren't bad they are just thrown under the bus because of how useful the others are. {{summoner:2}} {{summoner:10}}

I think they need to be updated. With clarity giving increased base mana regeneration, barrier having different modes that can be upgraded into or clairvoyance giving increased sight to summoners and alerting them of nearby wards. Something along those lines of changes. They are all very specific summoners that are only chosen to troll or counter pick. Riot wants counter play to stop being "I ate some oranges and it was K" but the 6 summoners above all allow for great counter play if just adjusted the right way. Turning the current summoner spell tunnel vision into the choices you have to make when building your champion.

You could get an Infinity Edge for that damage but you will lose out of time of buying that item, attack speed and other items that can give much higher crit chance.

152 Comments

RiotRiot SweetJan 22, 201545 votes

You could say they need more... summoner 13 ?

On a serious note I'm not part of the group that develops on gameplay but I would love to see a refresh to the less used summoners. summoner 21 and summoner 6 do see a fair amount of play but not so much of the others.

ProfirixJan 22, 20154 votes

At least summoner 21 and summoner 6 are viable. It would do my heart good to see {{summoner:2}} summoner 13 become viable once more. Although I can't recall a time when was a decent pick in soloQ...

Except when I support Ziggs bot and absolutely destroy the lane.

DryditchJan 22, 20155 votes

clarity is actually great on mana intensive champs early game.

If I ever have to take a champ with high mana costs into supp role, I will, without a doubt, grab clarity.

BallisticMouseJan 22, 20155 votes

Could you send this thread to the team that does work on Summoner Spells?

HexTechBomberJan 21, 201526 votes

summoner 21 and summoner 6 are typically used pretty often just more selective to the champion to play on. Champions like Hecarim, Nasus, Skarner, Udyr typically use the summoner spell often. It's not as good as the gap closing summoner 4 that lets you get over barriers that you'd other wise not be able to get over.

As far as summoner 21 is concerned it has it's moments; being it also was already reworked slightly in comparison to summoner 7 . While it's optimal to take summoner 3 on the Support and on the ADC, you may find that you won't necessarily need the spell and there for could take the on your ADC while the Support takes .

summoner 1 is really just a niche summoner spell because all it does is remove CC and we have our supports now able to buy an item that heals and removes CC from said target they target.

{{summoner:10}} has really gone way with the wind and seems really to just be a TROLLY type of summoner spell and has an extremely long CD (5mins I think), it could really find a rework or just flat out be removed from the game.

{{summoner:2}} used to be fantastic and I've seen some take it jungle that have gap closers in their kit as a means of keeping a possible eye in the enemy jungle for short periods of time since it has a pretty short CD. While again it's super niche it could be reworked or removed.

summoner 13 happens to be used typically only when you're in ARAM by one person. Really see's no play and deemed to be pretty TROLLY if used outside of Howling Abyss ARAM.

All in all I agree that actually {{summoner:2}}, summoner 13 , , {{summoner:10}} could use a rework of some kind or be removed; or any combination among these 4 spells.

summoner 21 and summoner 6 I'd have to argue as being in a good place.

KnalxzJan 21, 20154 votes

I agree with everything you said here the only reason i put ghost and barrier in the less used ones is because of how specif they are to the situation or champion.

Leaf of the lakeJan 21, 201513 votes

{{summoner:10}} has really gone way with the wind and seems really to just be a TROLLY type of summoner spell and has an extremely long CD (5mins I think), it could really find a rework or just flat out be removed from the game.

If it was 5 min it might actually see some occasional use (TP/revive rammus/hec/etc). It's actually 9 min.

HexTechBomberJan 21, 20152 votes

thanks yeah I said I think because I wasn't 100% sure.

siris killerJan 21, 20151 votes

no need to get cocky katasumai but back along time ago it used to be around 12 to 15 minutes i forgot you sometimes only got to use it 1 to 2 times in a game then the cd got lowered to 9 and is obviously to low so what im thinking is that it should be like 9 minutes to start with and it lowers by 30 seconds every level until it gets to lvl 9 or 12 somewhere between there and by then itll only be 5 minutes something alot lower

HexTechBomberJan 21, 20157 votes

cocky about what? i'm simply re-iterating that I did say "I think" because I wasn't 100% sure. So I thanked the person for it. How am I being cocky?

JamnonJan 21, 20151 votes

Ur not. Sounds like D envy.

HexTechBomberJan 22, 20152 votes

;)

Magma Lux MidJan 21, 20151 votes

I think revive could be reworked to be like a Zilean ult that revives with 20-40% health and mana. Clairvoyance could give true sight or something? Just need to differentiate from the trinket. Cleanse is really niche (i.e. the enemy has Leona/Amumu/Jax/Varus/Lux).

HexTechBomberJan 21, 20153 votes

Interesting idea but then Zileans ult wouldn't be unique.

DabkilmJan 22, 20151 votes

item 3026 does almost the same thing except health scales by percent, instead of giving flat amount like Zilean .

HexTechBomberJan 22, 20152 votes

Zilean scales with AP on his Ult.

DabkilmOct 25, 20151 votes

Yes I realize that, I meant his scaling is a flat amount of health based of skill rank and AP rather than the % given from the item 3026 passive.

Raith AlghulJan 21, 20153 votes

Siv HD might have an issue with removing {{summoner:2}}, I also take this sometimes depending on the champion, since it allows you to check any area of the map, even find out the enemy starting items at the start of the game, and it's great for those global skill shot ults, though it could use something to make it a bit better, I've suggested letting wards be placed within the revealed are from anywhere on the map before.

DrCyanideJan 21, 201511 votes

summoner 1 is replaced by two items: item 3140 and item 3222 , both of which do it's job better and have a shorter cooldown. Suppressed? Sorry, Cleanse can't save you, should have bought a QSS.

{{summoner:2}} likewise was replaced by an item, but that item is free. item 3342

{{summoner:10}} Had it's moment of glory in URF, when it's 540 second (9 minute) cooldown became 108 second cooldown. Riot decided that having a summoner spell with 100% pick rate on both teams was bad for that game mode.... but they keep flash in normal games....

summoner 13 falls off too hard late game to be useful for more than laning phase. The best suggestion I heard for a buff was to have it also apply some sort of CDR or reduce the cooldowns by X seconds when used, but that might be too much of a buff.

Spot on about summoner 21 and summoner 6

TotalJerkJan 21, 20152 votes

Riot has noted that they plan to rework item 3222 because most people don't have the reaction time neccessary to mitigate most short CCs on another person. It's really only effective on long CCs and stuff you anticipated. Breaking CC on oneself on the otherhand tends to be much quicker.

DarkenedSoul420Jan 22, 20152 votes

Your points are pretty good but summoner 13 isnt really a troll pick, I have a couple friends who do corki and annie bot lane and taking on the support really takes their harass to a whole new level. I personally would take summoner 3 or summoner 7 as a support but I gotta say that their method is quite effective.

Beast of LegendsJan 22, 20152 votes

Merge summoner 1 and summoner 21 , and bump the CD and nerf some of the effects.

Would that work? And possibly keep summoner 13 , but have an AOE passive that was like Mana Manipulator that turns on when not on CD.

Truly PridefulJan 21, 201512 votes

Ghost and Barrier still see some use so I would leave them as they are. The rest however could use a change in function to make them worth using.

{{summoner:2}} : Consider giving it true sight to look for wards or possibly lower the cooldown. Both might be a bit much.

summoner 13 : Add some passive MP/5 while it's off cooldown and when used give a flat amount of mana based on level and a boost to regen for the next 30 seconds or so.

{{summoner:10}} : Can we just scrap it and bring back Fortify now that there are so many pushing tools? Revive has only ever been used for cheese or trolling.

summoner 1 : Lower the cooldown and make it do what it actually says it does. It should work against all CC and debuffs, not just some.

These are just some ideas anyway, it would be nice to see all of the summoners be worth using.

pleepJan 21, 20158 votes

I agree with the op, just remove barrier and ghost from the list of unviable sum spells.

They buffed ghost with the Distortion boot upgrade a while back.

AlëkJan 21, 20156 votes

I agree betternerf Irelia

Jarrito232Jan 21, 201512 votes

*Sona

Jeddy017Jan 22, 20156 votes

Am I the only one who feel summoner 6 should work like MasterYi ult (the "you can't be slowed" part)?

Jeddy017Jan 22, 20153 votes

While we're at it,let's give summoner 1 some temporary tenacity upon use so it can offer something QSS & Mikael's doesn't offer.

junglerboy16Jan 21, 20155 votes

No. Flash should be removed and mobility should be balanced around it not being there. Once you remove flash, every other summoner becomes that much more viable as a 1st or 2nd summoner. It also makes it much easier for immobile champions to be balanced in respect to mobile champions, because they can have their power budgeted appropriately.

Clairvoyance should be completely removed, it is redundant with scrying orb.

Clarity may actually see a comeback if they gave it a buff by reducing the cool down, since so many mages need more mana now.

Cleanse is already strong, there are just fewer and fewer CCs worth taking cleanse against because of league of displacement.

Barrier is just flat out weak right now in comparison to heal. It should be a super short duration shield, but also shield a TON, so that it is used for negating assassin burst instead of winning a fight like heal does.

Ghost isn't actually that bad off, and if flash were gone, it would need a nerf to compensate for its strength.

Revive is a dominion spell. If they made dominion popular, Revive would be useful again. If they were going to change it, I'd say instead of instant reviving on a 9 minute cool down, it instead cuts your respawn timer by 75% on a 5 minute cool down.

DrMarshSwampJan 21, 20154 votes

I think Cleanse would be fine if the Cooldown was lowered, and possibly make it a "Targeted" active that lets you choose between yourself and allies.

Tis a nice dayJan 21, 20154 votes

{{summoner:2}} Just needs to summon a small poro that scouts around briefly

SaevumJan 21, 20153 votes

Ghost: Nasus, Udyr, Tryndamere, Hecarim, Ashe, etc. Ghost still on use. Barrier is more a niche, cause heal practically does the same.

Clarity should be buffed (less cooldown, more mana %) or removed. Clarity has no effect on certain champions (manaless, fury based, wind based, energy based, Stacks based [Rengar]).

I don't see much use for Revive. Should just be buffed to: revive on spot with 40% health.

i don't see much use for clairvoyance neither. Buy wards, tell Twisted Fate to R, trinkets/upgrade trinket, etc.

Cleanse: its a good spell, but should be added/mixed with something else (like heal or ghost). Knock ups are op. That's why is no longer used so much.

CindikleJan 21, 20153 votes

{{summoner:2}} Needs a full rework. I'd like to see it changed to work like Rek'Sai's vision when he's burrowed. Pop this summoner and you can see movement pulses of a large range around you for 5 seconds. Any champion seen for this duration will continue to be seen for 3 seconds.

This would make it a strong gank and anit-gank tool. If you know the enemy jungler is likely coming to you, you can pop this and see their path assuming they are moving. If you are ganking you can pop this to see the enemy in case they run into a bush to break line of sight. Although probably not strong enough to replace Exhaust or Heal in the bot lane.

summoner 13 Another one that needs to change. Instead of restoring mana. Have it remove the cost on abilities for 4 seconds. For this duration your CDR is maxed. If too strong, reduced to 50% mana costs or so.

Would really help those mana hungry champs in a pinch. As well as the CDR boost could make it worth taking over Ingite as a damage spell. To the right champion anyway.

summoner 1 I personally think it should be deleted. Make a new MR item that builds out of QSS and has this effect. Remove the ability to break suppression from it(QSS that is). If suppression becomes too strong work around that. IMO suppression really can't be balanced around QSS. There should be better options.

summoner 21 It's not so much that it's weak. It's that Heal provides mobility. Overall both doing the same thing. Heal is slightly weaker, but can be used on two players and comes with mobility. Maybe if Barrier also ignored all penetration effects it would see a huge comeback.

summoner 6 Easy fix. For the first 3 seconds it grants immunity to displacement effects. 1.5 seconds for ranged. Displacement is no longer a unique CC. There is no reason it has no counterplay anymore. This would allow Yasou to maybe see some buffs and kit fixes. Champions that live off their displacement(Malph for example) could see a reduced CC in the form of a stun when facing this.

{{summoner:10}} Not even sure why this hasn't been deleted yet.

NielarkenJan 21, 20153 votes

Might have a few balance problems but here what i think.

summoner 7 + summoner 13 : Heal plus a small amount of mana "20% instead of 40"

summoner 21 + summoner 1 : Heal is better because it add mobility too now barrier adds mobility in a way by removing cc

summoner 6 : is fine just needs 2-3 secs of slow immune

{{summoner:2}} : just needs to give true sight and a low cd

{{summoner:10}} + summoner 12 : people already use teleport to get to lane/team fights faster if you teleport while dead you get full cd if you teleport while alive you get a reduced cd.

{{summoner:17}} : rito plz i want this with my item 3056 on summoners rift

summoner 31 + summoner 14 : throw flaming poros YES!!!

Marinaras TrenchJan 22, 20153 votes

DONT TOUCH MY CLAIRVOIANCE

Teridax68Jan 22, 20153 votes

I'd say summoner 6 is more popular than people give it credit for, but yes, a lot of summoner spells need a rework. Some, like Ghost, summoner 21 and summoner 1 , are just one-upped by other effects that just do more (Barrier, in its current form, will always be in a numbers race with summoner 7 , so the two spells will never be viable at the same time), and others, like {{summoner:10}} and summoner 13 , are based on seriously flawed concepts that need to be altered in order for them to be healthy, which would then allow them to become popular. Here are my thoughts on the spells you listed:

Barrier and Cleanse I think should be combined into a single summoner spell, something along the lines of "gain total immunity to damage and crowd control for ~1 second". Barrier is pretty much outdone by Heal in everything except initial numbers (and even then, Heal's heal effect is permanent, unlike Barrier's shield), and Cleanse is too easily replaced by items like and . Barrier's main difference from Heal is that it's meant to provide great short-term protection, and Cleanse does the same except in a less appreciable way (65% Tenacity still lets you get CCed). Combining the two and tightening them into a spell that would provide a very short window of massive power would allow them to fit an otherwise untapped niche.
Ghost I think just needs to have something that would justify picking it over on champions who don't have serious kiting issues. It should provide amazing mobility over a long period of time, in contrast to Flash's instant and extremely powerful burst of mobility, and while it does that, it's just not nearly as versatile or as useful overall as Flash. Just brainstorming here, but here are a few possible changes I think could be worth looking into: 1) Vision over the area surrounding the user while active ("I want to have an edge when chasing/kiting/escaping from an opponent"). 2) A short burst of stealth ("I want to use this for a perfect moment of repositioning"). 3) A much shorter duration, but better speed and the ability to pass through terrain ("I want to position myself in a way that would otherwise be impossible for me to achieve"). If this makes escaping too easy, perhaps having the "true ghost" effect temporarily break upon taking damage could prevent overly easy escapes. 4) Any combination of the above ("I can appear from anywhere and know where you are").
{{summoner:2}} has a really cool effect, but is mostly far too situational to ever be worth picking over more reliable or combat-adapted summoner spells. I'd personally go for giving it the ability to reveal the entire map for a much longer cooldown, but perhaps there could be other ways of making it interesting as a summoner spell for champions seeking vision dominance.
Clarity is just fundamentally bad by design. Mana restoration as a summoner spell is a crutch that new players quickly learn to ditch, and it offers nothing in terms of gameplay or interesting power. I think this is one summoner spell that would be better if it were removed, or turned into something completely different (something tied to casting, for example, if it had to share something with the current spell).
Revive has a cool effect with occasional strategic uses (Phantoml0rd almost singlehandedly kept the spell alive, so to speak, with his ), but negating a death timer is an extremely disruptive effect, that so far has only been balanced with an impractically high cooldown. If the spell in its current form were ever to become popular again, it would probably have its cooldown increased even further, as it's not really meant to be a proper part of the game. Keeping the resurrection effect would be great, but there would have to be some gate to its use beyond just its cooldown, one that would prevent abuse (especially in the late game, where death timers are precious windows of opportunity).

UltîmaJan 21, 20152 votes

Riot has overlooked summoner spells for far too long, and need to seriously consider re-balancing those tools.

There are very few reasons to select barrier over heal in almost any given scenario. They overlap quite hard with each other, with heal having the benefit of giving you and an ally a speed boost upon use. Barrier could use a similar addition where, once used, the champion gains x armor and x mr based on level - giving it the benefit of being a preventive summoner spell opposed to the reactive nature of heal.

Currently if you know you're about to get hit with a nuke, the defensive power of both heal and barrier is about on par - except you might actually escape/dodge with heal.

KidKaiserJan 21, 20152 votes

clairvoyance should give a HUGE map vision for 5s. 120s CD.

like. im talking ALL of Blue/Red buff jungle size. Nocturne lvl1 ult size.

Krys StarJan 21, 20152 votes

{{summoner:2}} would be glorious if the cooldown wasn't so long. I miss taking this spell as support back in s1.

St0rmlnJan 21, 20152 votes

I completely agree. I understand that players still working up to lvl 30 want to unlock better spells, but i think it makes more sense to balance them all. no use having them if no one plays them.

Psi21Jan 21, 20152 votes

Or just get rid of flash and introduce .. oh I don't know a blink dagger ... like the original core game had.

gubigubiJan 21, 20152 votes

I think the summoners are fairly alright how they are atm. The other ones are highly situational and can still be viable when you use them in the right places. Karthus summoner 12 {{summoner:10}} Quinn summoner 6 summoner 4 summoner 13 if you are getting used to playing in mid lane It can help out a lot before you learn how to control your mana {{summoner:9}} what is this btw, intresting can be usefull in ranked 3s since you dont really need teleport and some times its strong against comps like Ashe Sejuani Lissandra summoner 21 is only bad because heal is good. Its really hard to pick one while the other is strong. Much like item 3165 and item 3174 they do almost the same thing and tend to crowd each other out.

SleepyLionCubJan 21, 20152 votes

I personally think ghost and cleanse should combine. It would be strong yes, but at the same time it will make it a good competitor to flash.

Jungle Lux GodJan 22, 20152 votes

Ghost is actually a pretty solid pick, as some champs are better with Ghost because they need to stick to their targets or because they gain really strong boosts out of it, while other champs pick up Ghost and Flash for maximum mobility.

Barrier is a viable summoner pick, but only on more defensive mid laners that need to survive against more offensive mid laners, as mid lane is the lane most likely to take Ignite, making Heal a less good pick in the mid lane. If the support takes Heal, it is better for the ADC to take Barrier than Heal because of the diminishing returns on repeated heals.

Cleanse would be a lot better if QSS did not so horribly outclass it. Cleanse should either remove everything QSS can, either by changing QSS to work more like Cleanse or by changing Cleanse to work more like QSS.

Clairvoyance also would be better if Scrying Orb was not available, although there is a big difference in that Clairvoyance is better than Scrying Orb, but the competition for these two makes it so that you are comparing which of these options is less bad rather than which one is better, and it turns out that there are some insanely good options for summoner spells, but not so much for trinkets.

Clarity might actually be viable after the mana regen changes, as it allows mana-based casters a little bit more room to cast their abilities, although it still is pretty bad.

Revive is really bad, and will likely remain bad unless it gets removed from the game. Or URF comes back and Riot forgets to ban it.

DagnaJan 22, 20152 votes

I'm sorry, but you only have a choice of 1 summoner spell right now. 99% of the time you are going to take flash because it has no equal. Want to force more spell diversity (i mean I love seeing 10 out 10 champs with Flash), then rito needs to nerf core mechanic of flash. It will not happen, ever. The core mechanic of flash is extremely exciting to watch (paraphrasing an old riot post), so exciting in fact, that riot will not touch it. Sadly, it seems this mentality has bleed into champ balance too. If its exciting to watch, riot will not nerf it.

I think the heal speed buff is where riot is going though, trying the make the other summoner spells really noticeable when used. If it can make the crowd gasp, then it doesn't need to be balanced. Entertainment via watching the game be played rather than playing the game seems to be the future focus of changes being made now.

Brenticus12Jan 22, 20152 votes

Yo, don't diss summoner 6 . That shit is useful and it's not just a niche pick. Sometimes I even prefer it over flash.

Gray FanchonJan 22, 20152 votes

I think if Riot put some people on it, they could probably make the Summoner's spells a very interesting set of strategic choices, but I also think it's gonna be a bit tricky to do, since you're essentially giving a very simple bonus ability to any champion a given player wants to play. I can see how it might be a little tricky to dodge edge cases where one particular champion kinda runs away with the game coughWarwickwithredsmitecough

I think Ghost has it's uses on champions who value the increase in movement speed, but it's kind of competing with Flash. Nobody seems to want to dedicate both Summoner's to mobility, which is kinda funny given mobility creep has been kind of an issue in some cases...

OyddAWqJ5rJan 22, 20152 votes

summoner 6 Is still used Nasus Olaf Poppy come to mind.

summoner 13 ~~Restores 40% maximum mana to you and nearby allies.~~ => Restores 70 + (35 x level) mana over 10 seconds while granting 20% CDR and halved mana costs on abilities for the duration.

Now has a purpose outside of lane and is less of a stale spell for laning as well. On par with Ignite if this happens IMO. Mana restored ranges from 105-700 based on level. No longer grants mana to allies.

summoner 21 Shields your champion for ~~95 + (20 x level)~~ => 60 + (15 x level) plus 1% for every 1% health missing for 2 seconds. When cast below 50% health, if the shield is broken the cooldown is reduced by 60 seconds.

Cooldown ~~210~~ => 180.

Clutch spell being rewarded for use as a clutch spell instead of as a "block the first big attack you take" spell. Value changed from 115-455 => 75-330; at ~50% health it has just about the same potency as the original but becomes stronger than it when used beyond 50% missing health.

summoner 1 Removed. QSS is better in every case but making it a QSS is way too big of a counter to too many champs.

{{summoner:10}} ...It's fine. Honestly shouldn't be viable but is still a fun spell to have. Most I can see happening is a reduced CD when behind (criteria for what would determine 'behind' I have no clue).

{{summoner:2}} Rework into a trinket... Oh wait they already did. item 3342

Red HypernovaJan 22, 20152 votes

The thing is to make all spells equal to flash. You should have a hard time choosing either between flash or any other spell. See Clarity: Eliminates mana costs and gives you X%CDR for X seconds. Additionally restores X% of total mana. Barrier: More shield, longer time Clairvoyance: Larger area, also reveals invisible wards for X seconds. (Supporty summoner spell) Cleanse: On activation removes all CC and makes you unCCable for 1 second. (Also reduces further CC by X% for X seconds) Reveive: Revive where you died after a X seconds. (Like a channel to give your opponent time to react) You can buy items while death. (Kinda a teleport + No death time) Ghost: Additionally removes any slow and gives you a 1 second huge Ms boost. (Then its the same as it is now, MS boost, no unit collision)

This are some ideas, perhaps exhaust, ignite, and all the others spells that are not flash will need a buff.

The point is all spells should be chosen in a similar %

mehyaknowJan 23, 20152 votes

i use summoner 6 on ashe and i'm considering getting summoner 13 on ap mana champions because riot, for some reason, decided that assassins should have more leniency, and that mana based champions should be screwed over. Seriously, can we just go back to having the mana per sec system vs this % increase stuff. i really think it's a detriment to the game overall.