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@Riot: give us two separate MMRs in dynamicQ, help solo players staying engaged with the game

webkr3b5··114 votes·2,993 views

So Riot has officially given up on soloQ. Something needs to be done about dynamicQ to keep the solo players engaged, as they are vital to dynamicQ matchmaking. As a solo player myself the games itself don't really feel different, except for a tiny portion of them. While I'd rather not play with/against 3man premades and the likes, I can deal with that. What absolutely kills the mode for me though, is that your rank is void of any meaning as long as there's that little asterisk next to it, which says "This person might have achieved this rank with help", you can't accurately judge a persons ability to play by their rank anymore.

What I propose to give back meaning to your rank is having two separate MMRs, just like Dota 2 does it. Have a solo rank and have a party rank. Match people with their solo MMR if they play solo and vice versa if they play in a party. It's silly to have solo and party players ranked on the same ladder, even though team play and solo play require a different skill set, not to forget how the system is skewed in favor of premades right now. You can use all your current matchmaking systems in place and people can still play Ranked with their friends, but you keep the solo crowd from slowly drifting away from LoL into other games.

37 Comments

Gene Freakz15 votes

In normals, at least for me, I don't mind playing against people from different ranks even if that difference is great. I do not really play normals, though, I pretty much only play ranked because I like the experience of goal-oriented gameplay i.e. the ladder climbing experience. Even if dynamic queue is balanced (or so I hear) by having lower and higher ranks on either team and having premades pitted against higher ranked opponents, this defeats the whole purpose of the competitive ranked experience. I am gold 4 and I see games that have a gold 1 (who was a plat last season) on one team and a silver 5 (who was bronze last season) on another team. This matchup does not create a fun, competitive game - a matchup between a platinum playstyle and a bronze playstyle. I agree with OP that if party players are going to queue up with a huge difference in their rank, there should be two separate types of mmrs or a stricter system - one that does not allow people past 4 rankings apart to queue up together.

webkr3b53 votes

Two separate MMRs mean though that a Diamond V solo player might just be Gold III with his party rank. If he's playing alone he'll get matched as a Diamond V, if he's playing in a party he'll be matched as a Gold III. On the other hand this also means that a Silver V player who got boosted by his Gold friends will only be Gold in party rank and still be matched as a Silver V when he plays solo.

Gene Freakz2 votes

Then not two separate mmrs and just a ranked system that disallows huge differences in rankings.

webkr3b55 votes

What you want out of this system is a matter of implementation and changing numbers, not the design of the queue itself.

Gene Freakz2 votes

Lol elitist much? Anyway, yes I have voiced in other posts that I do not like the design of the queue itself, but it took time and money to create and it is not going to be dramatically changed overnight or maybe at all. In the meantime, yes, I want an implementation of minor change as I find the system unfair. Other people feel the same way but not everyone.

Dr Johnny Penis1 votes

premades do not get a mmr penalty

this was released in the dyna q patch

one of the more pernicious changes

The Queen Viper9 votes

Would make no difference whatsoever, since:

  • MMR is hidden in the first place.

  • Premades would still be able to skew games & affect the outcome & therefore also your MMR. Or are you suggesting that solo MMR has other factors outside of W/L ?

  • As long as solo players and premades are drawn from the same pool and have the ability to play against each other, ranked means nothing.

  • The only solution is to separate solo players and premades.

webkr3b56 votes

But now there's a rank where the only constant is you. There's no getting your friends involved. You'll still have to deal with premades like all solo players, but you can't be part of them anymore to improve your chances of winning. Everyone who queues solo has the same prerequisites and to overcome them equally. You can judge how good players are by their solo rank.

In the current implementation dynamic queue means nothing because not all players have the same prerequisites, not because you face and play with premades when queueing solo. You can choose to inflate your rank by playing with others. With a separate solo rank that is no longer possible, if you party up you get the joke party rank.

The Queen Viper6 votes

{quoted}

But now there's a rank where the only constant is you.

ehhhh... and how does this differ from just queuing consistently alone now?

{quoted}

There's no getting your friends involved.

But some people and I already play alone.

Still doesn't change the fact that I get premades with or against me that skew my games.

{quoted}

You'll still have to deal with premades like all solo players, but you can't be part of them anymore to improve your chances of winning.

So nothing changes since you can already play alone.

You are not solving anything here since the problem remains, solo players get premades with / against them.

webkr3b52 votes

Right now "the only constant is you" is a thing you have to enforce yourself, not a thing enforced by Riot. People who don't can bring their friends in and have their rank inflated. Now there's a rank only for people who do that, who queue solo. You can compare yourself to them. Now when somebody says "I finally made gold" you can check their profile if they really did, or if they got carried by their friends, because there is the real solo rank and the rank they made with their party.

The thing we're fixing is the meaning of rank. No more asterisk saying "I may have done this with friends". And while I agree that games with/against premades are less enjoyable, I think a big portion of my games this season have still been enjoyable. Playing with/against premades isn't as bad as you make it out to be. We're not getting soloQ anyway, so we'll have to compromise.

Nero5272 votes

I feel that this problem has gotten really out of hand. I'm in silver, nothing special but my games go really one sided when I go in solo but get matched with or against premades making it increasingly difficult to really have an even game. It's gotten quite ridiculous making this game no longer fun to play ranked. If this system doesn't get fixed i might after 4 years finally just uninstall and not come back. At least with old soloq i had a chance to climb and really feel like i accomplished getting out of bronze on my own, now i'm being punished for wanting to go in alone.

CuteGuy6pack9 votes

Honestly. I just want a box to check that makes it so I don't have to play with premades. They really ruin the game for me. I don't even care about sharing MMR.

To be clear this isn't an "I can't climb" post, I just genuinely dislike games with premades in them,

WadeWilson13371 votes

Same.

Nαgma4 votes

we need 2 ladder in this q . if you play solo you gain elo in the solo q ladder if you play as premade you gain elo in the premade ladder

iamthegoatofwar3 votes

wait like official official? Where's the post about that?

webkr3b53 votes

Here's the translation of Riot Korea's statement. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4dwkar/official_riot_temporarily_put_a_hold_on_solo/

And now the reddit mods even decided to delete all posts about this issue from now on. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4dwgis/dynamic_queue_has_been_added_to_the_riotpls_wiki/

WadeWilson13373 votes

Looks like Riot cant swallow their pride and take criticism for their shitty project. Lets just censor the community while we are at it, and call them "whiners". Thats fantastic business practice.

Troll for Trump1 votes

That's not Riot, that's the circlejerkers

Velzard of Koz3 votes

I was once soloing. I was solo and the way Jungler treated our Mid and vice versa they certainly weren't premades. Even though nothing would prove it in-game, maximally botlane might have been premade. Judging by clubtags, at least two groups were two man premades (If not more) in enemy team. So it looked like (and even felt like) 1x1x1x2 versus 1x2x2. Enemy botlane (first premades) went circa 5/0 early, roamed and basically carried them to victory. Really not an experience that would make solo-one like the DynaQ premade rules.

That's basically the thing I dislike about it. The premade policy and even the small chance of such occurence. When you don't play it frequently, you can feel it. All that remains is frequent ARAM and when SR, some relaxing ( eh... Fiora ) Normal Blind Midlane.

Jasiwel3 votes

What if they gave Solo players more LP when they're successfully advancing in their MMR?

Ha Yuri Jahad1 votes

In some ways they already do that, but this isn't a bad idea at all

WadeWilson13371 votes

I mean thats nice and all, but that STILL doesnt solve the issue of playing with/against premades. They give a bonus if you beat a premade, and a rather large one. But how many times will you beat a premade as a bunch of solo players..maybe 10% of the time that the premade is messing around or trolling?

Jasiwel1 votes

I mean if you go in as a Solo player period. It doesn't matter if you beat other Solo players, duos, trios, or premades - Solo players get more LP. Given they're risking more to play Ranked without buddies, I think it's a fair compromise as long as they are actually advancing. In other words, losses knock off the same LP as before, but wins net you substantially more than losses will if you queue in Solo.

This is, of course, if they decide that SoloQ is not bueno.

WadeWilson13371 votes

Youll lose so many more games just because youre playing solo though, so you basically come out even. If youre going to give bonus LP gains to solo players, you may as well make it to where they lose less LP against premades. "Going even" in terms of LP is not fair considering the frustrations the solo player has to deal with. Riot has shown so much favoritism to premades that solo players feel betrayed and neglected. If they continue to alienate them without compensation, they will inevitably be pushed away and quit the game altogether.

Jasiwel1 votes

I mean, that's kind of the point of increasing the LP gain. If the Solo player can push through premades then he'll go through divisions/tiers faster. If he doesn't, then at least a win can balance out two losses (or something like that).

I've played Ranked for a few seasons now and I understand how irritating even a Duo is to play against/with, but I'm also so used to playing Normals that I'm exceptionally used to premades. Are they fair for a SoloQ environment? Hell no, but I think saying that Solo players are mostly screwed against duos/trios/premades is a bit of an exaggeration. It might be that I've never really viewed SoloQ as a true SoloQ due to this being a team game regardless, but premades in SoloQ feel no different than playing against other Solo players. At the end of the day, my team can still be horrific or outstanding compared to theirs. And you will also likely have premades with you as well, or at least that's my experience so far.

With that said, I do believe having a legitimate SoloQ environment is necessary and Riot has miscalculated that necessity.

Dr Poro2 votes

This is actually a pretty amazing idea.

  1. People can't get carried to rankings by smurf friends.
  2. People who did get carried won't screw up games when they solo queue (because it'll switch to their solo ranking).
  3. People who like to play with friends can still use this ranking as their primary goal and get end of season rewards.

Downside of this is that people can't play soloQ games to climb further after having played with friends a lot. They'll have to start from their soloQ ranking.

Anyways, more important than this, I think, is to stop smurfs from messing up ranked. It's extremely easy to make a new account. You don't even need a real email address and spamming games to lvl 30 is relatively easy, especially now that the xp gain is doubled. I don't know how to stop smurfs, but I think it's important. Perhaps have the system look at the score that people get on average and give more MMR to players with S games. Especially when 2 people duoQ and one person gets S every game while the other get's C+ on average, something's fishy.

xenos of the air2 votes

Or they could just,ya know, release solo que like they said they would and use the mmr system they laid out in Dynamic Que feedback thread (same as what ur suggesting, separate ladder) instead of compromising on something they themselves said was important to the competitive integrity of the game. Dynamic Que will never be the same as Solo Que, too many flaws inherent to grouping up as team of 2+ and yet also having solo players thrown into the mix. I haven't seen any official announcement on the death of solo que though it is looking that way, so might as well fight for what we were promised and need to have a competitive game rather than compromising and incorrectly ranking solo players on a ladder based off of circumstances out of their control.

Gwydion Atlantes2 votes

Id rather just have solo/duo q back with this dynamic bullshit it ruins the game for me when I go to play alone and I get against a 5 man premade and makes the game very difficult to win or even play

LatetotheRace2 votes

If this were to become a thing, 4-man premades could not be a exist. Which I personally don't give a damn about.

xenos of the air2 votes

Or they could just, ya know, release Solo Que like they promised us instead of compromising on something that we were assured we would have by now. Riot proposed a separate ladder for Solo Que ranked at the beggining of the season just as you are now because they understood Dynamic Que skill/mmr does not equal that of someone who plays only solo the majority of the time. Also seeing as the split ladder would still be based off of the more luck based, not as skill focused game mode which is fundamentally biased against Solo players that is dynamic que it would probably be better if they just Released Solo que and committed to splitting Ranked into the Dynamic que (2,3,5 que) and the Solo Que (1 only) each with their respected ladders like they should have months ago.

Obungo 1 votes

solo queue requires no skill, the game's decided by whoever is unlucky enough to get that one troll/dumbass/afk. At least with premade you can lower that shit that actually ruins the game. I'd rather lose to a premade than be winning and have a solo noob just afk becuase his mom grounded him.

Akeydel1 votes

Frankly I'd be shocked if they haven't implemented anything like this. Have only one visible rank, but two separate hidden mmr's both of which only loosely affect the other. Maybe a rubberbanding system so the difference doesnt get too high (ie bronze in solo, plat in party) However, Riot's (justifiably) tight-lipped on how the matchmaking works; even if this is already a thing, or eventually gets implemented, its unlikely we'll hear about it.

YossarianSensei1 votes

Each party should get its own ranking too, because different premades make a huge difference

Joek91001 votes

Don't give up, don't compromise, it's not even hard for them to implement. They said they'd give it to us, don't be a push over.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

Saying Riot gave up on Solo Q would be inaccurate. Judging by Lyte's comment it almost certainly exists and is nearly complete. But just like Riot did with the finished Dominion ranked queue Riot has no intention of turning it on.

AwesomeChad1 votes

One of the biggest things I've learned this season since the implementation of dynamic queue: You CAN'T trust your teammates nor expect them to perform on the same level as you. This is due to the consistencies from players rising up the ladder because they're constantly premading with their very skilled friends.

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